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Tangut, Khitan, Juchen; Manchu
Thread poster: chica nueva

chica nueva
Local time: 23:09
Chinese to English
Apr 13, 2009

[Link to the 'Homepage' of this Forum:
http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/22275-welcome_to_the_new_forum_about_ancient_languages_:.html#1101250 ]

1 Read a review of a recent translation from Manchu here:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The%20diary%20of%20a%20Manchu%20soldier%20in%20seventeenth-century%20China;%20my...-a0159046549

2 Historical background to 17C China:

Kangxi was the Qing Dynasty's second emperor after coming through the Pass. ... After he came of age and took over the reigns of government, ... At the same time, he suppressed the "Three Feudatories" one after the other, reunified Taiwan, resisted Tsarist Russia's aggression, put down the Galdan Rebellion, pacified Tibet, and completed unification on a state-wide scale.

The "Three Feudatories " refers to the Pingxi Prince, Wu San Gui, the Pingnan Prince, Shang Ke Xi, and the Jingnan Prince, Geng Jing Zhong. ... The three princes were in Yunnan, Guangdong and Fujian respectively. ... In 1673 (the twelfth Kangxi year), Wu San Gui started an armed rebellion, ... Within the space of a few months, Wu San Gui had seized Yunnan, Guizhou, Guangdong, Guangxi, Hunan and Sichuan. Kangxi adopted strategies of divide and demoralise and of concentrated strikes on Wu San Gui and, after an eight year campaign, put down the "Three Feudatories" Rebellion.

Translated from: 'Kangxi's unification undertaking' in Wang Yong Kuan et al., Native land, China Youth Press, Beijing, 1983

康熙是清朝入关后的第二个皇帝,... 他亲政以后,... 在这同时,他先后削平“三藩”,统一台湾,抗击沙俄侵略,镇压噶尔丹叛乱,评定西藏,完成了全国规模的统一。

“三藩”,是指平西王吴三桂、平南王尚可喜、靖南王耿精忠。... 分别驻在云南、广东和福建。... 一六七三年(康熙十二年),吴三桂发动叛乱,... 吴三桂在数月之间,便占领了云南、贵州、广东、广西、湖南和四川。康熙采取了分化瓦解、集中打击吴三桂的战略,经过八年征战,把“三藩”之乱平息下去。

‘康熙的统一事业’,王永宽、等编,《祖国》,中国青年出版社,北京,1983

[ References:
1 Timeline: the Tangut (Western Xia), Khitan (Liao), and Jurchen (Jin) empires: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:History_of_China
2 Jin/Qing (Jurchen/Manchu) connection (17C name changes): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Dynasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Dynasty_(1115–1234)
3 Maps showing the Tangut etc domains:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liao_Dynasty 915 – 1125
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_11b.jpg During the Southern Song, 1142 AD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurchens On the Eve of the Mongol Invasion 13C ]

[Edited at 2009-04-14 03:32 GMT]


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Tangut: Wuwei's Tangut Stele Apr 13, 2009

A Wuwei is on the Silk Road in Gansu Province. I have an interest in Gansu and the Silk Road, and this is an extract from one of the pieces I have translated about the Tanguts (11-13C AD). Perhaps it might be of interest to peers in this Forum:

Wuwei's Tangut Stele

... The stele is 2.6 metres high, 1 metre wide and 30 centimetres thick. Its front and rear faces are inscribed separately with the Tangut script and the corresponding Han script. ...

The Tangut Dynasty set up a state which lasted for one hundred and eighty-nine years (1038-1227) and whose sphere of influence was extensive. ... The Tangut script is square-shaped and very neat. Apart from the composition of the characters having similarities to Han script, the writing styles are also divided into cursive hand (cao), official hand (li), and seal hand (zhuan). ... Tangut script was in use in the broad expanse of territory of China's North for more than two centuries right up until the early Yuan. ...
...
On the top part of the Tangut Stele, to the left and right, two full-bodied yet slender song and dance artists have been engraved. The lithe and lissome drifting silk ribbons following the graceful timing of the dancer's posture and movements, seem to allow us to see the Hu whirling dance of the Tanguts and to hear the stirring Liangzhou music. ...

The careful neat characters and the lively dance musicians integrate harmoniously to form a crystallisation of the Tangut calligraphic and pictorial engraving arts.

Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing

[ References
1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangut_language
2 (The Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region's capital, )'Yinchuan City ... was once the Tangut state capital. ... At the foot of Helanshan are the Tangut Tombs. ' (Translated from: Cartographical Publishing House, China Atlas, Cartographical Publishing House, Beijing, 1981)
3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangut_script
4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangut
5 http://www.gansu.gov.cn/en/mapgansu/index.htm ]

B More on the extensive domains of the Tangut (Western Xia) empire and the significance of the Tangut script:

The Tangut Dynasty set up a state which lasted for one hundred and eighty-nine years (1038-1227) and whose sphere of influence was extensive. "Its eastern end at the Yellow River, its west bounded on Yumen, in the south adjoining Xiaoguan, in the north controlling the desert", "square about 200,000 li ". Its founding sovereign, Yuan Hao, "knew Bo and Han script", and the twelve volumes of Tangut writing he and his trusted follower, Guang Hui Wang Ye Li Ren Rong , produced were popular over a wide area at the time. The Tangut script is square-shaped and very neat. ... The Tangut Stele script has provided valuable historical materials for our research into Tangut history. Tangut script was in use in the broad expanse of territory of China's North for more than two centuries right up until the early Yuan. Moreover, Kublai Khan commanded Hangzhou to print a large quantity of Buddhist sutras in Tangut for the habitual use of the monasteries of Hexi and Ningxia.

Wuwei's Tangut Stele is a valuable Tangut Chinese bilingual dictionary. It has opened a great door for us on this lost nationality's script. If one says that "Xi'an's Forest of Steles is the largest stone library in the world", then Wuwei's Tangut Stele is a "rare and fine edition" which has never been taken into the collection.

Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing

[Edited at 2009-04-14 07:23 GMT]


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The end of the Tangut Empire: Part 1 Apr 13, 2009

The Tangut Empire is also known as the Western Xia. It was brought to an end by Genghis Khan in 1227:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Xia
‘The Mongols asked their allies and tributaries for military aid in the campaign against the Islamic countries in 1216. Although the Tangut emperor Shenzong was willing, his court and in particular his general Aša-gambu recommended against it. When Genghis Khan returned from his campaign the new emperor Xianzong pled with him, but the general Aša-gambu challenged Genghis Khan. The emperor Xianzong died during the fighting and was succeeded by Modi (Li Xian), the last of the Tangut rulers. Modi sued for peace, which was accepted, but he was then executed by Tolui, the son of Genghis Khan, and the Tangut state was fully incorporated into Mongolian administration. ’

Here is a fuller account from a children's history storybook:

'In 1226AD, that was the year after the western campaign had ended, the matter of attacking the Jin Dynasty was placed on Genghis Khan's order of the day once more. He made his first target of attack the Tanguts, because the Tangut king had been unwilling to send troops on the western campaign, and moreover had formed an alliance with the Jin Dynasty. Genghis Khan divided the troops into two routes, east and west, to mount a pincer attack. He personally guided Ogodei and Tolui, leading a 100,000-strong army on the east route, following Helanshan southward, the whole route was like splitting a bamboo cane, and closed in on the Tangut capital, Zhongxingfu (today's Yinchuan in the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region). The Tangut king, De Wang, was panic-stricken and died. The Mongol troops continued on southward, crossing the sandy desert, crossing the Yellow River, and launching a fierce attack on Lingzhou (today's Lingwu in the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region). The new Tangut king, Li Xian, sent the old general, the renowned Linggong, at the head of 100,000 troops to meet the enemy head-on in battle. And that was how the unprecedentedly fierce great Battle of Lingzhou broke out.'

[Edited at 2009-04-13 08:10 GMT]


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The end of the Tangut Empire: Part 2 Apr 13, 2009

At the time, the Tanguts were facing a crucial life-and-death hour. Only a death-defying battle could avert the possibility of extinction, and because of this, morale ran very high and they did battle very boldly. The troops personally commanded by Genghis Khan were powerful cavalry and were also a contingent used to victory; their fighting spirit was right at its peak. Every soldier wore a leather pouch on his head and leather armour on his body, and held a curved knife in his hand. Sitting astride their warhorses, they were incomparably ferocious. The two sides marshalled their forces on the frozen Yellow River. Although the Tangut troops resisted valiantly, they were finally unable to match the Mongols' iron cavalry, resulting in a large number of dead and wounded, and corpses everywhere. There were also quite a lot of Tangut soldiers' corpses stuck upside down on the battlefield. It turned out that every time the Mongols killed a thousand men, they would plant a corpse upside down. In the Battle of Lingzhou the best of the Tangut troops were wiped out, and the Mongol troops' losses were also very heavy.

At the beginning of the next year, Genghis Khan occupied the Tangut capital's periphery, turning it into an isolated city. In the summer, he went to Liupanshan (in the south of today's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region) on his summer retreat. At this time, there was a violent earthquake in Zhongxingfu. Buildings collapsed, pestilence was prevalent, and the grain was cut off. The Tangut king was at the end of his tether, and had no choice but to send an ambassador to Genghis Khan to surrender, saying, "To allow for tribute to be prepared and civilians to be moved, please relax restrictions for one month. At that time I will come personally and pay my respects." Genghis Khan agreed, and asked the ambassador to reply, "After the Tangut king has surrendered, I will treat him as I would treat my own son."

After the Tangut king had surrendered, Genghis Khan moved his summer retreat from Liupanshan to Xijiang in Qingshui County (in present-day Qingshui County in Gansu Province). ...
...
He also told the generals in his retinue that after his death they must impose a tight embargo on the news; when the Tangut king came to pay his respects at the court they should kill him, then they should kill all the inhabitants of the Tangut capital without exception. Later the generals did everything according to Genghis Khan's injunction.

In 1227AD (the fourth Zhengda year of Jinshuaizong), on the twenty-fifth day of the eighth month, at Xijiang in Qingshui County, Genghis Khan died. ...

Translated from 'The death of Genghis Khan' in Qiu Shusen, Chinese History Stories - Yuan, China Children's and Young People's Press, Beijing, 1983

[Edited at 2009-04-13 06:30 GMT]


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Tangut history and domains 7-12C; the city of Khara-Khoto Apr 15, 2009

lai an wrote:
Timeline: the Tangut (Western Xia), Khitan (Liao), and Jurchen (Jin) empires: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:History_of_China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liao_Dynasty 915 – 1125
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_11b.jpg During the Southern Song, 1142 AD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurchens On the Eve of the Mongol Invasion 13C ]

[Edited at 2009-04-14 03:32 GMT]


http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/exhibit/tanguts/essay.html
The Tanguts - short overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khara-Khoto
'The city was founded in 1032 and became a thriving center of Tangut trade in the 11th century.' 'the city continued to flourish under Mongol overlordship.'

[Additional maps and information

The Tangut domains:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/images/en/map22.jpg
Approximately 850
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/images/en/map24.jpg
Early 10C
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/images/en/map27.jpg
1st half of 11C
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/images/en/map29.jpg
2nd half of 12 C

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/group.html_2124837990.html
12 The Subsequent Political Division of East Turkistan and Gansu:
In the mid-seventh century, the Tanguts had fled their homeland in the Kokonor region due to constant attacks by central Tibet and had taken refuge in eastern Gansu under Tang protection. ...
17 Uighur and Yugur Assistance in Establishing Tangut Buddhism:
'... in 1036, the Tanguts adopted a character script ­for writing their language. Developed from the Khitan characters, it was the most complex writing system ever devised in Asia. '
19 The Rise of Tibetan Cultural Influence on the Tanguts:
'Eventually, the Tanguts became one of the most highly cultured peoples of Central Asia. '
‘All monks, regardless of origin, were required to study the Tangut, Tibetan, Han Chinese, and Sanskrit languages and literature.’ ]

[Edited at 2009-04-15 11:43 GMT]


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Is Manchu still spoken?; ethnic groups in Chinese history; Tungusic languages Apr 15, 2009

Is Manchu still spoken?

'Tungusic languages spoken in China: Jurchen (extinct), Manchu (moribund), Xibe (still spoken in Xinjiang)' (Google)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu_language (total speakers 60)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusic_languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Chinese_history
Tangut - Dangxiang link

[ Possible Xibe-Xianbei link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibe_language (total speakers 30,000)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibe
Their cultures're also similar to Xianbei.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei
The Xibe people believed themselves to be descendants of the Xianbei. ]

[Edited at 2009-04-15 12:33 GMT]


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Yuan China: Kublai Khan; 'Phags-pa script Apr 15, 2009

lai an wrote:
Tangut script was in use in the broad expanse of territory of China's North for more than two centuries right up until the early Yuan. Moreover, Kublai Khan commanded Hangzhou to print a large quantity of Buddhist sutras in Tangut for the habitual use of the monasteries of Hexi and Ningxia.
Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing

[Edited at 2009-04-14 07:23 GMT]


[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Phags-pa_script
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida#Phagspa
The 'Phags-pa script was ... designed by the Tibetan Lama Drogön Chögyal Phagpa for the emperor Kublai Khan during the Yuan Dynasty in China, ... It ... fell into disuse with the collapse of the Yuan dynasty in 1368. ]

An account of the development of 'Phags-pa script from a children's history storybook:

In 1251 AD, Mongke sent Kublai and Wulianghatai to attack the Southern Song, and Kublai set out for Yunnan by way of Tibet. ... By that time, Sa Ban had already died, and his nephew, Phags-pa, went to Liupanshan to pay his respects to Kublai.
...
In 1260 AD, he received an order from Kublai to formulate a new Mongol script. ... Phags-pa borrowed Tibetan letters and created forty-one new letters to spell the Mongol language. In 1269 AD, its use was officially proclaimed, and from that time on all official documents were written in the new Mongolian letters Phags-pa had formulated. From Yuan dynasty stele inscriptions which have been kept, we can still see this type of script. ...

Translated from 'State Tutor Phags-pa' in Qiu Shusen, Chinese History Stories - Yuan, China Children's and Young Peoples's Press, Beijing, 1983]

[ 'State Tutor Phags-pa' full translation:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page15.html#816197 ]

[Edited at 2009-04-15 11:51 GMT]


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Xianbei and Tuobas; 4-5C Tuoba grotto art; Gansu grottoes Apr 16, 2009

lai an wrote:
Possible Xibe-Xianbei link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibe_language (total speakers 30,000)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibe
Their cultures're also similar to Xianbei.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei
The Xibe people believed themselves to be descendants of the Xianbei. ]

[Edited at 2009-04-15 12:33 GMT]


[ Notes:
The Xianbei State AD93 to the 2nd Century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Chinese_history
Xianbei peoples: 4th century B.C. ? to mid 6th century

The Tuobas were a branch of the Xianbei:
Tuoba Northern Wei 386 – 535 (one of the Northern Dynasties)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Wei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_and_Northern_Dynasties#The_Northern_Dynasties
Timeline: Southern and Northern Dynasties 420–589 (incl Tuoba/Northern Wei 386-535)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:History_of_China
Maps:
Location of the Xianbei and other steppe nations in 300 AD
Asia in 500 AD, showing Northern Wei territories and their neighbors
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/East-Hem_300ad.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Asia_500ad.jpg ]

Notes on Tuoba Buddhist grotto art in the 4-5C Northern Wei period, from a 'cultural reader' for young people:

China's largest group of grottoes is Dunhuang's Mogao Caves in Gansu Province. Beginning from the second Qinjianyuan year (366 AD) ... The murals are mainly from two periods, the Northern Wei and the Tang Dynasty. The Northern Wei painting style is bold and unconstrained. ...

The Maijishan Caves in Gansu's Tianshui County is another large-scale cave repository. From the fourth century AD, successive dynasties constructed around two hundred caves on this mountain, ... Maijishan's Northern Dynasties' painted Buddha figures are delicate, and free and easy, and of a high artistic level. ...

Shanxi's Datong City used to be the capital of the Northern Wei Kingdom established by the Xianbei nationality, and in the second half of the fifth century AD, the grand and beautiful Yungang Caves were hewn out. ...

At the end of the fifth century, the Northern Wei moved its capital to Luoyang, and on Longmenshan hill, beside the bank of the Yishui river, built another huge group of grottoes - the Longmen Caves. ...

Translated from 'Repositories of Eastern Art Treasures - China's Four Great Grottoes' in Wang Yong Kuan et al., Native land, China Youth Press, Beijing, 1983

[1 Gansu's Grottoes:
Dunhuang's Mogao Caves: ... there still remain four hundred and ninety-two caves from more than ten dynasties: the Sixteen Kingdoms, Northern Wei [Tuoba], ...
Anxi's Yulin Grottoes: The Yulin Grottoes were built in the Northern Wei [Tuoba], ...
Binglingsi Caves: The rock caves have preserved more than 1500 years of cultural relics: from the Western Qin, Northern Wei [Tuoba], ...
Maijishan Grottoes: According to the relevant stone stele records, the first grottoes were hewed out in the time of the Sixteen Kingdoms, and then, after uninterrupted excavation and renovation through more than ten dynasties: the Western Qin, Northern Wei [Tuoba], ..
(Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing)
2 Grotto art of the Hexi [Gansu] Corridor:
The Hexi Corridor was the entry point for the transmission of Buddhism. From the Eastern Han Dynasty onwards, Buddhist monasteries were built everywhere here; there are the Thousand Buddha Caves west of Dunhuang, the Mogao Grottoes, Anxi's Yulin Grottoes, Su'nan's Wenshushan Grottoes, Zhangye's Matisi Grottoes and Wuwei's Tiantishan Grottoes. All of these are visual testimony to cultural exchange and fusion between China and other countries. (Translated from: Shaanxi Province Tourism Board, Gansu Province Tourism Board, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region Tourism Board eds. China a Land of Beauty - The Silk Road, Shanghai People's Art Publishing House, Shanghai, 1983)]

[Edited at 2009-04-16 07:49 GMT]


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chica nueva
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Sino-Tibetan relations: stories from the Tang, Yuan, Ming, Qing Apr 16, 2009

Tang: Princess Wencheng goes to Tibet
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page17.html#816673

(Mongol) Yuan:
lai an wrote:
[ 'State Tutor Phags-pa' full translation:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page15.html#816197 ]

[Edited at 2009-04-15 11:51 GMT]


Ming: Tsong Kha-pa founds the Yellow Sect:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page15.html#816208

(Manchu) Qing Kangxi: Taiwan and Tibet relations:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page17.html#816533


[Edited at 2009-04-16 12:32 GMT]


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The Tangut-Qiang relationship; Russian research; Tanguts conquer Dunhuang and set up their empire Apr 17, 2009



China History Forum discussions:
A Tibetan people: the Dangxiang/Tanguts were a subgroup of the Qiang. Tangut is their Mongolian name. (Russian research is also discussed here): http://www.chinahistoryforum.org/index.php?showtopic=29348&pid=4965298&mode=threaded&start=#entry4965298
http://www.chinahistoryforum.org/index.php?showtopic=13922&pid=4848846&mode=threaded&show=&st=0
Tangut descendants might still exist today. No link between them and present-day Qiang.

[The Qiang:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiang_people#Early_history
They live today in the area of the 2008 Sichuan earthquake.
The Han dynasty ambassador, Zhang Qian, travelled through their region:
'After he had finished his investigations, Zhang Qian took the southern route through the Qiang nationality area and returned east. After many setbacks, he arrived back in Chang'an in 126 BC.' Translated from 'Zhang Qian and "The Silk Road"' in Wang Yong Kuan et al., Native land, China Youth Press, Beijing, 1983 ]

[ Russian Tangutologist Dr Kepping (1937-2002):
http://www.kepping.net/raboty-4.htm
The Tangut state (982—1227) ... Founded by people of mixed Tibetan and Turkic origin ... A Buddhist kingdom with the Tantric tradition being the most popular among its population, ... the most complicated system of writing ever invented by a human mind ... undertook ... translation and publication of the whole Buddhist Canon in its own script, ... in a record short time of fifty three years ]

The Tanguts rule Dunhuang from 1024, and set up the Da Xia (Great Xia) Empire in 1038.(China knows it as the Western Xia):
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Song/xixia-event.html
Chinese History - Western Xia Dynasty (Xixia) 西夏 (1038-1227): Li Deming ... conquered land in the west, defeated the Tubo army and the Qaghan of the Turkish Oghuz federation (Huihu)
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Altera/turks.html
Chinese History - Non-Chinese peoples and neighboring states: Turks (Tujue 突厥)
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Song/xixia-literature.html
literature, thought, philosophy, and Tangut script: Li Deming and his son Li Yuanhao are said to have invented or developed a special script for the Tangut language, the script was later perfected by Yeli Renrong.
http://www.hssl.org/english/dongfanwenming/history/donghuang/dh_dxxx.htm
Dunhuang art: Nationality Dangxiang and Western Xia Dynasty
In 1024 the Tanguts won against the Huihu [Orghuz federation], conquered Dunhuang, and ruled it for 150 years.

[Edited at 2009-04-17 06:50 GMT]


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Where is Tsongkha?; Amdo Apr 20, 2009

1 Tsongkha is where Tsongkha-pa was born in the 14C. The Ta-er Monastery built in memory of him is there. :

lai an wrote:
Ming: Tsong Kha-pa founds the Yellow Sect:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page15.html#816208


[Edited at 2009-04-16 12:32 GMT]

Here are the details:
['... Tsongkha-pa was a Tibetan. ... he was born in the seventeenth Zhizheng year of the Yuan Dynasty (1357 AD), at Lusha'erzhen in Huangzhong County, Qinghai Province, where the Ta'er Monastery is. At that time this place was in the Tsongkha district, so people called Luosang Zaxi, Tsongkha-pa, meaning "Tsongkha person".
...
In the Yuan Dynasty, Tsongkha was a place which had to be crossed on the way from Tibet to Dadu (today's Beijing City), and very often, monks of high moral integrity and scholarship would pass through. ...
Tradition has it that, after Tsongkha-pa left home, his mother missed him very much and built a small pagoda at the place where he was born which she invested with her thoughts of him. ...]

2 Tsongkha is today's Huangzhong area, near Kokonor/Qinghai lake and the city of Xining:

[ http://wikitravel.org/en/Huangzhong Huangzhong {湟中, Tibetan: Tsongkha or Lushaer} is a city in Haidong prefecture, Qinghai Province.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbum_Monastery
In the 1360s Tsongkhapa's mother with the help of locals had a small temple with a stupa built on the site of his birthplace. ...
Feng&Stuart refer to Kumbum Monastery as 'Gebem' Monastery:
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a915.pdf
(translations of Tsongkha-pa folklore from Xining) ]

3 Tsongkha must have been important in former times:

See maps showing Tsongkha, Kokonor, and the Tangut domains from mid 9th-2nd half of 12C here:
http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/132554-tangut_khitan_juchen;_manchu.html#1103566
This was once in 'Amdo', the Eastern Tibet region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdo

[ The Labrang Monastery at Xiahe, in Gansu Province, established in the Qing, was also once in 'Amdo'. Here is a description of the monastery today, translated from the Chinese:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/96553-对人生与社会的思考-page17.html#816698
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labrang_Monastery ]

[Edited at 2009-04-20 04:31 GMT]


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Were the Tanguts Turkic?; Tanguts: arts, peoples, economy Apr 23, 2009

A Were the Tanguts Turkic?
1 http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/132554-tangut_khitan_juchen;_manchu.html#1102069
The reference to the 'Hu whirling dance' in Duan et al. (1982) suggests to me they were Turkic.
2 http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/132554-tangut_khitan_juchen;_manchu.html#1105148
Kepping (2000) refers to 'people of mixed Tibetan and Turkic origin'.
3 http://www.amazon.com/Open-Empire-History-China-1600/dp/0393973743
Hansen (2000) , refers to 'the Turkic peoples of Central Asia - the Khitans, the Tanguts, and the Uighurs among others'

B Tanguts: arts, peoples, economy:
http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/132554-tangut_khitan_juchen;_manchu.html#1105148 The Tanguts conquered Dunhuang in 1024

1 Tanguts and Dunhuang sutras: Milston (1978) says that it was the Hsi Hsia [Tanguts] who 'collected the vast library of Buddhist texts and paintings which was walled up in the caves at Tun Huang about 1035 and not discovered until 1900.' http://www.booksandcollectibles.com.au/dump/Pegasus_Book_Orphanage/books-0000/41180.html Bonavia, revised Lindesay and Wu, (1999) tells the story differently: 'These treasures were sealed up in a small hidden cave by Buddhist monks in the 11th century, presumably to save them from the ravages of war with the Xixia [Tanguts].' http://www.amazon.com/Silk-Road-Judy-Bonanvia/dp/9622176062

2 Tangut Grotto art: Anxi's Yulin Grottoes: ... there are: ... four [caves] from the Tangut, ... All the different jingbian of the Five Dynasties, Early Song, Tangut and Yuan have pictures woven into them showing scenes from real daily life; of ploughing and reaping, of marriage, of feasting and drinking, of playing chess, of wine making, of iron smelting, of music, of dancing. ... The unique Tangut and Mongol style esoteric Buddhist mandala and the images of Tangut and Mongol people with their special hats and clothes, depict the customary dress of the minority nationalities. (Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing) [jingbian = Sutra illustrations]

3 Tangut peoples and script (Hansen):
'We label each period of their rule with the name of the ruling tribe - Khitan, Jurchen or Tangut; but these were not racially homogeneous societies. ... All these groups included members of many different tribes and considerable numbers of Chinese in what are better thought of as federations. ...' 'The Tangut ruler ... Like the Khitan emperor, he saw himself as the descendant of the Tuoba, or Tabgach, rulers.' 'In 1036, the Tanguts developed their own script. Their language included over six thousand different ideograms, even though they used only twenty-five hundred of these to translate Chinese works. Over three thousand of the remaining ideograms were used exclusively in ritual songs, whose contents were meant to be understood only by those who had been initiated into the esoteric Buddhist traditions the Tanguts embraced. ...' [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabgach ]

4 Tangut economy and commerce (Gernet):
http://www.amazon.com/History-Chinese-Civilization-Jacques-Gernet/dp/0521497817#reader
Gernet(1999): The Tangut, herdsmen of the Ordos area related to the Ch'iang of the Tang age, spread towards western Mongolia and Kansu in 1002. In 1028, ... they took possession of the two big trading centres of Wu-wei ... and Chang-yeh ... In 1038 they founded an empire...whose population was heterogeneous - Tangut, Chinese, Uighur Turks, Tibetans, and in which the most various modes of life were mingled... This was because ... the empire had come to embrace steppe, desert, oases and agricultural territory. ... commercial activity played a central role in this empire, for the Hsia controlled exchanges between the Sung empire and central Asia and also, further north, all the traffic on the route connecting south-eastern Mongolia, across the Ordos, with Kansu, Tsinghai, and Tibet. ...

[Edited at 2009-04-23 08:59 GMT]


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chica nueva
Local time: 23:09
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The Mongols take the Jin [Juchen] capital, Kaifeng Apr 23, 2009

The Mongols take the Jin [Juchen] capital, Kaifeng:

At the same time as Genghis Khan was on campaign in the west, he also went south to attack the Jin Dynasty. ... In 1211AD Genghis Khan despatched troops to attack the Jin Dynasty, and occupied the Jin capital, Zhongdu (present day Beijing City). In 1217AD, because he wanted to to attack the Western Liao and make preparations to campaign in the west, Genghis Khan gave his senior general, Muhuali, the title of king, and put him in special charge of the assault on the Jin.

In 1226AD, that was the year after the western campaign had ended, the matter of attacking the Jin Dynasty was placed on Genghis Khan's order of the day once more. He made his first target of attack the Tanguts, because the Tangut king had been unwilling to send troops on the western campaign, and moreover had formed an alliance with the Jin Dynasty. ... After the Tangut king had surrendered, Genghis Khan moved his summer retreat from Liupanshan to Xijiang in Qingshui County (in present-day Qingshui County in Gansu Province).
...
Genghis Khan's condition became worse and worse, and when he was near death, he told Tolui and all the senior generals the general plan for destroying the Jin State: The best of the Jin troops are in Tongguan. The south of Tongguan depends on Huashan, and the north relies on the Great River; it is difficult to breach it at one stroke. If you can go by way of the Southern Song, the Song and the Jin are feuding so they will be bound to agree. Then despatch the troops and drive straight on through to Kaifeng. At this time, the Jin Dynasty will surely call up the troops from Tongguan. For the several tens of thousands of Tongguan troops going a thousand li to help out, it is inevitable that both men and horses will be exhausted. They will be able to rush there but they will not be able to do battle. There will be no problem breaching Kaifeng." Later on Ogodei followed this general plan, and finally in 1234AD (the third Tianxing year of Jinshuaizong), the Jin State was destroyed.
...
Translated from Qiu Shusen, Chinese History Stories - Yuan, China Children's and Young People's Press, Beijing, 1983

[Genghis Khan, military overview:
After Genghis Khan had set up the Mongol power, he intensified military expansion towards the Jin Dynasty [Juchens], the Western Xia (a power set up by the Dangxiang in China's North-West region ) [Tanguts], and the surrounding tribes. According to the records of the "Yuan History New Edition ", he "wiped out forty kingdoms, suppressed Xia and conquered Jin, and held two-thirds of the Central Plains . The soldiers went away 10,000 li beyond the West and North Seas, to the Kunlun and Yueku regions unreachable through multiple translators, and all the horses' gaits were as if they were coming and going through the wicket gate at home!” The "New Yuan History" says he was "a dragon arisen in the northern desert, trampling on Xia and destroying Jin, his armies went 10,000 li, and since the Three Dynasties, there has never been another like him." (Translated from 'From Genghis Khan to Kublai' in Wang Yong Kuan et al., Native land, China Youth Press, Beijing, 1983)

[Edited at 2009-04-23 07:59 GMT]


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Tanguts and Yugurs; the Uighur, Mongolian and hPhagspa scripts Apr 28, 2009

1 In former times, the Tanguts and the Yellow Yugurs were neighbours in the Gansu Corridor area in China's North-West:

a. The Yugur kingdom was Ganzhou, capital near Zhangye. After being conquered by the Tanguts, they helped to translated the Chinese texts into Tangut, including statecraft texts. http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/e-books/unpublished_manuscripts/historical_interaction/pt3/history_cultures_17.html#n60ffa0b8a2624c213
Uighur and Yugur Assistance in Establishing Tangut Buddhism
b. The Yugur domains, link to maps here (see the first 2 maps): http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/132554-tangut_khitan_juchen;_manchu.html#1103566 The Yugurs were a predominantly Turkic Buddhist people whose descendants still live in Gansu today.
c. The Yugurs used the vertical Uighur script to write their language until the 18C. They have no script today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugur

2 Inner Asia scripts: Uighur, Mongolian, hPhagspa:
a. Uighur: http://www.ancientscripts.com/uighur.html 8th to 17th Century CE, derived from the cursive Sogdian script, ...
b. Mongolian: http://www.ancientscripts.com/mongolian.html 12th Century CE to Present, The Mongolians adopted the Uighur script around the 12th century CE, ...
c. hPhagspa: http://www.ancientscripts.com/hphagspa.html 1269 to 1352 CE, in 1269 CE, the Khan charged his personal lama, Matidhvaja Sribhadra, ... to create a script ... see link: http://www.proz.com/forum/ancient_languages/132554-tangut_khitan_juchen;_manchu.html#1103749

3 Link to more information on modern-day Yugurs here:
http://www.proz.com/forum/linguistics/127606-yugurs;_gansu;_turkic_language_peoples_in_china.html#1111942


[Edited at 2009-04-28 06:22 GMT]


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Silk Route 'whirling dance'; Soghdians/Soghdiana; Tang-dynasty Persians Apr 30, 2009

lai an wrote:
...
On the top part of the Tangut Stele, to the left and right, two full-bodied yet slender song and dance artists have been engraved. The lithe and lissome drifting silk ribbons following the graceful timing of the dancer's posture and movements, seem to allow us to see the Hu whirling dance of the Tanguts and to hear the stirring Liangzhou music. ...

Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing

[Edited at 2009-04-14 07:23 GMT]


'whirling dance':

Given that Zhangye/Liangzhou was the capital of the Yugurs' Ganzhou kingdom, and that the Yugurs are Hu (= Turkic) I had thought that these dancers on the stele might have been Yugurs. But is it possible that they were Soghdian, or Persian?

[Soghdian dance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_b1o4PKADs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdiana#Language_and_culture
The great majority of the Sogdian people ... came to speak Persian. ... ancestors of the modern Tajiks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdian_language http://www.ancientscripts.com/sogdian.html
Soghdian script was a variety of Aramaic, and precursor to the Uighur/Mongol scripts ]

[There were Persians on the Silk Road in the Tang (a modern Chinese ballet recalls it):

Silk Route Flowers and Rain (ballet in six acts) music by Han Zhong Cai, Hu Yan, and Jiao Kai. Written by the Gansu Province Song and Dance Ensemble. Choreographed and directed by Liu Shao Xiong, Zhang Qiang, Zhu Jiang, Xu Qi and Yan Jian Zhong. First performed in 1979 at Lanzhou.

Story: On the Silk Route of the Flourishing Tang, the painter-worker, Spiritbrush Zhang, saves the Persian merchant, Yinusi, who has fallen down exhausted in the desert, and has also unexpectedly lost his daughter, Yingniang. Several years later, in the Dunhuang marketplace, Yinusi generously helps the needy, buying back the freedom of Yingniang who has become a song and dance girl, and father and daughter are reunited. In the Mogao Grottoes, from the daughter's dance poses, Spiritbrush Zhang paints the representative work of the Dunhuang murals - Reverse-playing pipa girl delights Heaven. In order to avoid suffering Shi Cao's violent treachery, Yingniang and Yinusi go back to Persia. Later, Yinusi is assigned to the Tang as ambassador, and so Yingniang sets foot on the route back to China. In order to vent his personal spite, Shi Cao instigates the bandit, Dou Hu, to hold them up and rob them below the beacon tower outside Yang Guan. Spiritbrush Zhang lights a fire to give the alarm, and saves Yinusi from danger and disaster. At a Friendly Meeting of Twenty-seven States at Dunhuang, Yingniang disguises herself and puts on a performance, and using the opportunity to recite the facts of Shi Cao's and Dou Hu's crimes, she wipes out the Silk Route's hidden dangers.
...
(Wang Qin Yan et al ed., Music Appreciation Handbook, Shanghai Literature and Art Publishing House, Shanghai, 1983]

[Edited at 2009-04-30 10:57 GMT]


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