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A "responsible" spelling problem
Thread poster: Sam Berner

Sam Berner  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 07:45
Member (2003)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Dec 27, 2005

I have been battling with this for a while now. All the dictionaries I own say "responsibility" in Arabic is مسؤولية.

But a reviewer I trust just told me that أدرج مجمع اللغة العربية منذ سنوات طويلة همزة هذه الكلمة على نبرة. لم يعد أحد يكتبها كذلك .

When I Googled for both spellings, I got 195000 for مسئولية and 1600000 for مسؤولية.

Someone else also said they had a memory of Arabic Language inspectors in Kuwait sending lists to schools with new spellings and that the مسئولية was one such spelling.

My question is: can this REALLY happen? And which one is correct?


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Fuad Yahya  Identity Verified
Arabic
+ ...
They alternate in popularity periodically, rising and falling like a see-saw Dec 27, 2005

They are both used now. Microsoft spellchecker recoginizes مسئولية, but not مسؤولية. I use مسؤولية, regardless, but I do not fault the other. They are both nonsensical conventions anyway. One day, the whole sorry system will be scrapped and my name will be spelled فُءاد

My advice is not to lose sleep over it, just choose one and try to be reasonably consistent, but do not fault those who prefer the other.


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AhmedAMS  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 01:45
English to Arabic
+ ...
مسئولية Dec 27, 2005

Sam Berner wrote:
My question is: can this REALLY happen? And which one is correct?

This is the ONLY correct spelling for that word.


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:45
English to Arabic
+ ...
A problem indeed Dec 27, 2005

Personally, like you, I always write it مسؤولية and I was convinced that this is the proper spelling, just like it's شؤون and not شئون.
But only recently I was consulting someone (whom I trust very much) about another hamza problem and he told me the rule in Arabic was that the location of the hamza was determined by the preceding sound. So شؤون should indeed be شؤون because it's "shU'un" and not "shI'un".
But in the case of "mas'uliyah" it's not so straightforward because it's preceded by سكون.
I found a discussion of the spelling of mas'uliyah on the internet and this is one opinion:
"وبالنسبة للسؤال ، فالذي على القاعدة هو كتابتها على الواو لأنها مضمومة مسبوقة بسكون وهي مثل (شؤون)

لكن مذهب بعض الأقدمين كتابتها على الياء "

http://www.alfothool.com/vb/printthread.php?t=1561


But that's not very convincing, cause, as I said, shu'un isn't the same as mas'uliyah.
I'm trying to think of another word where the hamza is preceded by sukun...
I'm sure someone else can shed more light on this..

Nesrin


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Sam Berner  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 07:45
Member (2003)
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Al-Mawrid Dec 27, 2005

AhmedAMS wrote:

This is the ONLY correct spelling for that word.


Did you check your Mawrid? And Farouqi? Is the term in the Holy Koran?


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:45
English to Arabic
+ ...
very convincing argument Ahmed!! Dec 27, 2005

AhmedAMS wrote:

This is the ONLY correct spelling for that word.



...NOT!
...this is obviously not as straightforward as you make it seem, Ahmed - as you can see, many, if not all dictionaries, suggest مسؤولية. So how can you be so dismissive??


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:45
English to Arabic
+ ...
a more convincing argument Dec 27, 2005

Here's another interent discussion I found, with more convincing arguments:

شكراً لك لطرحك هذا الموضوع ، ولقد أصبت عين الحقيقة عندما قلت أيهما أصح ( مسئولية ) أم ( مسؤولية ) ؟ ..وعليه تكون إجابتنا على النحو الآتي :
- الأصح عند الجميع هي ( مسؤولية ) لتوافقها مع القاعدة المشهورة التي تعرف بقاعدة الأقوى ، إذ إنها همزة مضمومة وما قبلها ساكن والضم أقوى من السكون وعليه فإن الهمزة تكتب على واوٍ .
- أما ( مسئولية ) حيث إن الهمزة كتبت على نبرة مخالفة للقاعدة المشهورة السابقة الذكر أعلاه ، فإن بعض العلماء قال بجوازها منطلقين من قاعدة وهي ( أن الهمزة المضمومة إذا أمكن وصل ما بعدها بما قبلها جاز أن تكتب على نبرة كما في كلمة ( مسئولية ) فإن الواو يجوز أن تتصل بالسين وعليه أجازوا كتابتها على نبرة ومثلها ( كئوس – فئوس ) أما إذا لم يمكن وصلها فلا يجوز ذلك مثل كلمة ( مرؤس ) إذ إن السين لا يكن أن تتصل بالراء ، ونلاحظ أن المصريين كثيراً ما يستخدمون هذه القاعدة التي لا نستخدمها نحن في بلادنا كما يظهر ذلك جلياً في مقررات وزارة التربية والتعليم عندنا .
- بل يا عزيزي هناك من يرى جواز حذف الواو التي بعدها كما ذهب إلى ذلك ( عبد السلام هارون ) فتكتب ( مسؤلية ) بحذف الواو ، معتمداً على قاعدة تقول إن الهمزة إذا وليها صورتها جاز حذف الصورة إذ يعتبرون أن الواو الثانية صورة للأولى ولهذا جوزا الحذف .
- ونحن يا سيدي لا نرى ذلك إلا زيادةً في التعقيد والتقعيد مما يسبب لنا كثيراً من المشاكل مع تلاميذنا وإلا ماالحاجة لهذه القواعد وعندنا القاعدة العامة ؟ ثم أننا نحن ننادي بتوحيد قواعد الإملاء بين الدول العربية لا أن يكتب المصريين كلمة (مسئولية ) هكذاونحن نكتبها هكذا ( مسؤولية ) وآخر يكتبها ( مسؤلية ) ..أرجو أن أكون قد وفقت للإجابة على سؤالك ،،،
http://vb.alrames.net/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=31456


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AhmedAMS  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 01:45
English to Arabic
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Apology Dec 27, 2005

AhmedAMS wrote:
This is the ONLY correct spelling for that word.


I am sorry as I meant to say that this is the ONLY correct spelling for that word for ME.
However, please feel free to write that word anyway you like.


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Timothy Gregory  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:45
Arabic to English
Qur'an: وَقِفُوهُم إِنَّهُم مَّسْـءـُولُونَ Dec 27, 2005

Hi Sam,

مسؤولون/مسئولون is in the Qur'an, but does not answer your question. الصافات 37 verse 24. In all three copies I have the hamza sits on the line between the sin and waw (sorry,couldn't find that in the MS "insert character") rather than on either seat. My copy of المعجم المفهرس لألفاظ القرآن الكريم modifies it to مسئولون...

--tag


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Fuad Yahya  Identity Verified
Arabic
+ ...
الكتابة القرآنية لا يقاس عليها Dec 27, 2005

المصاحف مكتوبة بالطريقة العثمانية، وهي طريقة تُقاس عليها بعض الكلمات مثل "الرحمن" في بلادالشرق، لكنها عموماً لا يُحتذى بها في الكتابة العصرية

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xxxhamani56
Afghanistan
Local time: 02:15
Both spellings are correct! Dec 28, 2005

In the Koran, the word "responsible" is spelled مسئول and the spelling مسؤول follows the spelling rules of modern Arabic that are POST KORANIC. So both are acceptable.

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