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Thread poster: Krys Williams

Krys Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:31
Member (2003)
Polish to English
+ ...
Jun 23, 2004

Amikan saluton al cxiuj kolegoj, kiuj intencas partopreni tiujn cxi diskutojn pri artefaritaj lingvoj. Kompreneble, la aftero tusxas cxiujn tiajn lingvojn, ne nur Esperanton; Esperanto estas la sola, kiun mi scipovas, tial gxin mi uzas. Tamen, la kerna celo de cxiuj artefaritaj lingvoj estas cxiam la sama: ebligi reciprokan komunikadon en amikeco kaj egaleco. Mi esperas, ke tiu celo estos ankaux la nia cxi-tie.

Warm greetings to all colleagues inteding to participate these discussions on artificial languages. Naturally, this concerns all such language, not just Esperanto; Esperanto is the only one I know, and thus the one I am using. However, the main objective of all artificial languages is always the same: to enable reciprocal communication in friendship and equality. I hope that this objective will also be our objective here.

Krys


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Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 08:31
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
Bonvenon to you as well! Jun 23, 2004

Krys Bottrill wrote:

Amikan saluton al cxiuj kolegoj, kiuj intencas partopreni tiujn cxi diskutojn pri artefaritaj lingvoj. Kompreneble, la aftero tusxas cxiujn tiajn lingvojn, ne nur Esperanton; Esperanto estas la sola, kiun mi scipovas, tial gxin mi uzas. Tamen, la kerna celo de cxiuj artefaritaj lingvoj estas cxiam la sama: ebligi reciprokan komunikadon en amikeco kaj egaleco. Mi esperas, ke tiu celo estos ankaux la nia cxi-tie.

Warm greetings to all colleagues inteding to participate these discussions on artificial languages. Naturally, this concerns all such language, not just Esperanto; Esperanto is the only one I know, and thus the one I am using. However, the main objective of all artificial languages is always the same: to enable reciprocal communication in friendship and equality. I hope that this objective will also be our objective here.

Krys


Is this a link that could be of interest to anyone:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/conlang/skerre.html

Good luck to you all,

Evert


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Annamaria Leone  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 07:31
Spanish to Italian
+ ...
Good Thing! Jun 24, 2004

I'm really interested in this new forum!



AL


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Lucyna Długołęcka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 08:31
English to Polish
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Me too Jun 24, 2004

Annamaria Leone wrote:

I'm really interested in this new forum!



AL


Me too, but should we not decide first what language is to be used here?

Lucy


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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:31
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
calling all Tolkienians Jun 24, 2004

It would be great to meet other enthusiasts of Dr. Tolkien's invented languages, namely: Sindarin, Quenya, Adûnaic, Elvish, Númenorean and the Black Speech of the baddie bad man himself, Sauron:

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul


Here's a useful link to Tolkienian linguistics.

And a reference guide to the works of Tolkien -The Encyclopedia of Arda



I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith...

[Edited at 2004-06-25 07:02]


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Elena Bellucci
Local time: 08:31
Member (2003)
English to Italian
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Elen sila lumen omentielvo! Jun 24, 2004

Marcus Malabad wrote:

It would be great to meet other enthusiasts of Dr. Tolkien\'s invented languages, namely: Sindarin, Quenya, Adûnaic, Elvish, Númenorean and the Black Speech of the baddie bad man himself,


Mae Gowannen Marcus!
I'm no real expert (yet) but have always been fashinated by Tolkien\'s languages and interested in discussing the subject.


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Krys Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:31
Member (2003)
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Working language Jun 24, 2004

I suggest that since English is the working language of Proz, it should be the working language here. If any other language is used, an English version should ideally be given in parallel, as I did with my welcome message.

What do people think? I know this perpetrates the linguistic imperialism that idealistic artificial languages, such as Esperanto, seek to overcome. However, I can't think of a more workable solution.

Krys


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Krys Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:31
Member (2003)
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tolkien Jun 24, 2004

I first read Lord of the Rings when I was 10 - the school librarian was desperate because I had read my way through everything. She suggested I go to the public library and ask for permission to borrow it, even though it was shelved in the main section not the children's part. I skipped over all the languages in my first few reads, thinking it boring to read something I couldn't understand. Then, one day I discovered all by myself that it was possible to decipher some of the words - that was a thrilling find! Sigh, I should have known then I would be happiest working with words and language, however, I was hopeless at languages at school and went into science instead, which I found unrewarding. It took 30+ years of first learning Esperanto, which taught me how language works, and then picking up languages in various unofficial ways to arrive at a point where I am able to earn my living by doing freelance translation, which still feels more like play than like work

Well, after that long-winded intro, the point of this message is to say that I would also enjoy dipping into Tolkien's world and its languages.

Krys


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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:31
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
English and the Black Speech Jun 25, 2004

Krys Bottrill wrote:

I suggest that since English is the working language of Proz, it should be the working language here. If any other language is used, an English version should ideally be given in parallel, as I did with my welcome message.



oops, sorry, Krys. I agree. Translation below...

Fellowship of the Ring or LoTR1 (accepted abbreviations among Tolkien film groupies):

Dark screen, title page, Galadriel played by the luminous Cate Blanchette whispers "I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith" - "The world is changed; I can feel it in the water, I can feel it in the earth, I can smell it in the air"

And of course the Ring verse is the sixth and seventh lines from the famous octave:

Three Rings for the Elven-Kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

It's curious that Tolkien "translated" only the 6th/7th lines to the Black Speech, inscribed in the ring.

It is interesting to note that Tolkien himself hated the Black Speech. An admiring fan sent him a goblet, which Tolkien talked about in one of his Letters: "... I had a similar disappointment when a drinking goblet arrived (from a fan) which proved to be of steel, engraved with the terrible words seen on the Ring. I, of course, have never drunk from it, but use it for tobacco ash". In "The Peoples of Middle Earth", the Black Speech was described as .... "so full of harsh and hideous sounds and vile words that other mouths found it difficult to compass, and few indeed were willing to make the attempt". Some of the harsh sounds are from the explosives b, d, g, k, p, t, and from words containing the different "s" sounds of s, sh, sk, and z. Alexander Nemirovsky, a historian, believes Tolkien may have based Black Speech on the ancient Hurrian-Urartian languages of the Hittites and the Hurrians (who lived in the late Bronze Age).

[Edited at 2004-06-25 01:28]


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Yoana Yotova
Local time: 09:31
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
Great to have Jun 29, 2004

Krys Bottrill wrote:

I suggest that since English is the working language of Proz, it should be the working language here. If any other language is used, an English version should ideally be given in parallel, as I did with my welcome message.

What do people think? I know this perpetrates the linguistic imperialism that idealistic artificial languages, such as Esperanto, seek to overcome. However, I can\'t think of a more workable solution.

Krys



First - great to have this phorum

English is fine I suppose... It is the usual working language in almost any Esperanto project for example (together with the Esperanto) I can\'t say anything for the other artificial languages but...


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