| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | What is your definition of a professional translator? Thread poster: Williamson
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invguy 
Bulgaria
Local time: 01:55
English to Bulgarian
| IMO it can be summed up in a fairly simple way | Jun 11, 2003 |
A professional translator is one who practices translation as a professional service.
That means:
- doing translations for clients
- receiving compensation for this
- having the necessary skills/education/accreditation/expertise/whatever as required by his/her immediate market environment
- sticking to certain quality standards (market- or market-segment-dependent as well)
- having the necessary status and skills to be a reliable element of the service ... See more A professional translator is one who practices translation as a professional service.
That means:
- doing translations for clients
- receiving compensation for this
- having the necessary skills/education/accreditation/expertise/whatever as required by his/her immediate market environment
- sticking to certain quality standards (market- or market-segment-dependent as well)
- having the necessary status and skills to be a reliable element of the service industry chain (business skills, employed/freelance/incorporated status, communication abilities, contacts etc.etc.)
- (last in my list but by far not least important) knowing, and complying with business/professional ethics norms - both written and unwritten. ▲ Collapse
| | | | sylver
Local time: 06:55
English to French
| Some attempt | Jun 11, 2003 |
tyrem wrote:
Professional translator is the one translating all kind of texts (Law, economics, medical...) exept literary texts.
Professional translation is related to professional texts, texts being produced by all kind of professional sectors.
Hum, no. Translators working in the litterary sector are professional translators too.
According to the Webster, there are several definitions of the word professional, which explain the divergent opinions:
"Professional: 1. of, engaged in, or worthy of the high standards of a profession. [...]2. engaged in a specified occupation for pay or as a means of livelihood"
Thus "professional translator", has several definitions.
The first one refers to competence as a translator, irrespective of whether or not one is involved in translation for a living.
The second one describes a person earning his living as a translator.
That's it. There ARE 2 separate definitions, both valid and applicable in their own contexts. Of course, when one is working for a pay, one is expected to deliver valuable products (otherwise, it is called a fraud). Further, when working, one can expect a translator to use (and know how to) a number of tools to do his work (computer, word processor, CAT, ...), without which the translator would not be able to perform.
In my opinion, very clearly, a translator working for money should also fit withing the framework of the first definition, and this would include a command of the tools used.
(A guy doesn't have any subtitling software, never seen one but does not handle subtitling. No problem. On the other hand, if the guy works with CATs and doesn't know how to use it and fix problems when they occur, he is not much of a pro.)
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:55
Flemish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Clients are not in business for fun either. | Jun 11, 2003 |
The professional clients are not in their kind of business (e.g.: oil= multi-billion dollar business) for the pleasure of pumping up the oil and leaving it where it is.
--
I will try to give my own perception of a professional translator:
It is a person, who attended a T&I-school, so that (s)he knows words and their meaning= building-stones of his/her working languages (semantics and about the structure of the language imprinted in the head of the speaker by his parents (synt... See more The professional clients are not in their kind of business (e.g.: oil= multi-billion dollar business) for the pleasure of pumping up the oil and leaving it where it is.
--
I will try to give my own perception of a professional translator:
It is a person, who attended a T&I-school, so that (s)he knows words and their meaning= building-stones of his/her working languages (semantics and about the structure of the language imprinted in the head of the speaker by his parents (syntax)
This imprint and the influences from the surroundings reflect how the users of the working-languages view the world. Hence it is important to have lived in a region where your working-languages are the languages of daily use
He or she must also have acquired a knowledge of stylistics and sociolinguistics (why some Prozians who are professionals of language use restricted code remains a ? to me),
He or she should have knowledge of the institutions of the countries where the working-languages are spoken, as well as a general knowledge of a lot of domains: economics, sociology, technical issues, medical terminology...).
Preferably, he or she should attend a basic hardware course every two or three years (technological evolution), so that s/he can repair his/her own PC, make backups, built a small network... If your HD breaks down and you are in the middle of a project what then), know Office (including FrontPage, obvious for marketing-reasons), CAT-tools and DTP-tools (that way s/he is able to compete when bidding).
He or she should have attended some kind of business-courses, so that s/he learns that being a freelance translator is not just about words, but mainly about marketing her/himself and about figures (rates, time, cash-flow, work-flow processes).
He or she should also have some knowledge of legal issues (help, my invoice is not paid) and fiscal issues (earned a lot of money with a very big project, but at the end of the fiscal year, I've got to pay so much taxes). It is always nice to know that if you live in Europe/USA and your target-languages is Japanese, you can always buy a business class plane-ticket to Japan and deduce this as professional costs (refresher trip of your professional tools) from taxes.
This is only one possible perception of the "professional translator". However, it is a bit more practical and down to earth than those elevating the importance of the word/profession "professional translator" to words/functions like "CEO, "president of the USA or president of the E.U.-Commission". ▲ Collapse
| | | | René VINCHON (X)
France
German to French
+ ...
| Professional translator / full translator ( | Jun 11, 2003 |
Williamson wrote:
(...)
I will try to give my own perception of a professional translator:
It is a person, who attended a T&I-school, so that (s)he knows words and their meaning= building-stones of his/her working languages (semantics and about the structure of the language imprinted in the head of the speaker by his parents (syntax)
...
I must say I don't agree with that definition, nore with all what is concerning computer abilities, because 1) you dont'need to attend a T&I school to be a good translator (even if it sure doesn't harm) 2) there were translators before computer age, and there will be after (+:); besides, even today, you can still be a translator without using a computer (by dictating for example, I know some of them who are among the best).
So the answer has to be find somewhere else. And first of all, the most interessant is: Why do we have to ask that question? The answer is: because of 1). And that's all the problem: everybody can claim to be a translator, even a "professional translator". Good or bad? Sure it depends on which side your are. For me, the answer is "good", because when somebody ask me in french "diplom?", I answer "plom" (in french, "diplom" = "say plom" - bad joke +:).
But, still, we don't have the answer to the initial question. I will give you mine. "Translating for money" is not enough a definition. But I think it leads to it. So the definition:
"A professional translator is a translator which earns his/her life with translation, and only with translation, since a certain number of years".
Stupid that definition? I will explain you why it's not (IMHO of course). If you succeed living only with translation during some years (I would say at least 2), then you are a professional translator, because it means you are good enough for that job, and the proof is that clients give you works, and are satisfied (as somebody said: "you can fool one person tausend times, you can fool tausend persons one time, but you cannot fool tausend persons tausend times").
Then, as years go by, you slowly became a "full translator" (in french "traducteur intégral", i can't explain that in english, but I'm sure some professional or not translator will ... translate it): le concept de traducteur intégral est formé sur celui du "casque intégral", bien connu des motocyclistes (et dans le mot motard il y a aussi le mot tare +:): ça vous protège des chocs et en même temps ça vous donne une vision légèrement déformée du monde qui vous entoure.
Besides, I think one is not a "professional translator", but a "technical (or litterary, ...) professional translator from language(s) A to language(s) B, and even in fields a, b, ...".
As far as i'm concerned, as you noticed from the above, A et B language are not english +)
So in my opinion, there are professional translators (susceptible to become full translators)and amateur translators (susceptible to become professional translators).
So what's the problem? That is: why, as Williamson denoted in his initial question, some people claim high to be "professional translators". Why, quoting Williamson "On all translator forums, everybody claims to be a professional translator to distinguish him/herself from those who are not a professional translator." The answer, with my above definition, is now quite easy: because, pursuing to 1), there are a lot a lot of amateur translators, I would say they form the immense majority of translators, especially here in ProZ, which should be "AmatProZ". AND because there are lot of amateur translators who don't want to be professional (perhaps they are not fool enough +:). AND because, in translation, Amateurs and Pros play "on the same field", which is quite rare. AND in this game, Amateurs do have a lot of advantages: they are Amateurs, but they can be payed the same as Pros (do you know another activity where it's like that?), they can also be payed less, they don't care as much as a Pro for that (they eventually don't have taxes and all the stuff to pay), they can choose only the works they like, they can say no to their clients if they don't want to work too much, aso, aso. Most of all, they may be as good as Pros, even better. So the particularity of that job is that some (lot?) Pros want to be Amateurs again. But in the real life it's quite difficult, especially for those who became "full translators" (see above).
Perhaps you think "that guy doesn't like much Amateurs translators". In fact, that's not true, perhaps it has been true, but it's not anymore, because I think it's a great enrichment for us Pros, all that Amateurs who do that job because they like it; in fact, I like, I love that job, but sometimes i think it's really too difficult to do it "full" (sigh); and in those times,I now think "you're really stupid, they are so many people who do it by pure pleasure".
And my cat is still laughing at me: "You know, "c'est la vie quoi, le bordel!", why should we indeed classify people; do you classify me as an Amateur Cat or a Pro Cat?" - "You're right, Cat, I just love you".
That's all for today, folks, thanks for the two who stayed until the end. Go and drink a beer on my account, you deserve it. Tomorrow I will teach you about the breeding of snails in South of France.
RV without CV2001 (private joke).
[Edited at 2003-06-11 08:22]
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Marc P (X)
Local time: 00:55
German to English
+ ...
| Good points, René | Jun 11, 2003 |
The term "professional" means lots of different things to different people. So many different things, in fact, that there is not much point in trying to define it.
It is true that "professional" is used to distinguish from "amateur", i.e. for money vs. not for money. Originally, of course, "amateurs" (such as amateur sportsmen) were by no means considered less able than their professional counterparts - quite the opposite, in fact. For those who dislike the word, this definition is... See more The term "professional" means lots of different things to different people. So many different things, in fact, that there is not much point in trying to define it.
It is true that "professional" is used to distinguish from "amateur", i.e. for money vs. not for money. Originally, of course, "amateurs" (such as amateur sportsmen) were by no means considered less able than their professional counterparts - quite the opposite, in fact. For those who dislike the word, this definition is the most convenient.
However, "profession" was also used, historically, to distinguish from other categories of vocation. Members of the professions were expected to comply with certain codes of conduct, written or unwritten, and to uphold certain standards which extend beyond the actual competence required for them to conduct their immediate business. This meaning is no longer clear-cut, particularly as far as translators are concerned. In certain, traditionally more egalitarian parts of the English-speaking world, this meaning may well never have existed, and what the equivalent terms actually mean in other countries is a whole new topic.
Even if the term "professional" were to be consigned to history, though, there still remains a desire in some quarters among clients, those involved in the activity itself, and to some degree among the general public for certain standards to be maintained. These standards are generally referred to as "professional", even if there is no clear agreement upon what they comprise.
It makes sense, then, for certain criteria which may be considered necessary or desirable to be grouped under a certain heading. That is, in effect, what membership of a professional body does. To be a member of, for example, the ATA, one must have met certain qualifying criteria, and one must (I presume, not being a member of the ATA) undertake to conduct business in a certain manner. There is no need to suggest that membership of the ATA is synonymous with being a "professional"; if the standards associated with the designation find widespread acceptance, the term "ATA member" will convey the necessary information of itself. Members of the the ATA, to take this example, can discuss themselves what criteria should be associated with ATA membership, and should their expectations diverge excessively from the criteria selected by the majority, they are free to join another association or form their own.
A need will still remain on a more general level for a catch-all term for "desirable characteristics of practising translators", albeit one for which there can be no universal definition. So why not "professional"? Quite simply because it has too many different associations - like "sect", "socialism", "Ausländer" and probably even "anglais". English is sufficiently rich a language to offer adequate alternatives, though. My preferred term is "good practice". What constitutes "good practice" will always be subject to debate, but at least the term is free of historical baggage. In German, I would tend to use the term "seriös". Suggestions for other languages welcome.
Marc ▲ Collapse
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:55
Flemish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The heart of the matter | Jun 11, 2003 |
These standards are generally referred to as "professional", even if there is no clear agreement upon what they comprise.
--
That was the essence of my question to which it seems to be very hard to define a precise answer.
| | | | | Education is key | Jun 20, 2003 |
I agree with the definition that a professional is basically anyone who makes a living out of translating. However and depending where you live there may be other requirements. I spent four years studying translation at University and in my country you won't be taken very seriously if you haven't done that.
I agree that it is not absolutely necessary, but it ensures that a person holding a university degree on translation has studied linguistics, grammar, language history, translation the... See more I agree with the definition that a professional is basically anyone who makes a living out of translating. However and depending where you live there may be other requirements. I spent four years studying translation at University and in my country you won't be taken very seriously if you haven't done that.
I agree that it is not absolutely necessary, but it ensures that a person holding a university degree on translation has studied linguistics, grammar, language history, translation theory and methods, the cultural background of languages, and most importantly has had extensive training translating in a variety of fields with the guidance of very experienced, well-known translators who happened to be their teachers in School.
When you have not gone through specific translation education, it is all left to your common sense, your good intentions, your self-discipline and inevitably your customers, not your teachers, will be the ones to first spot your mistakes, or other problems related with lack of experience.
I think that translators should become more and more university professionals and less "amateurs", as is the case if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer, etc.
Accreditations are not enough as it may be possible to pass a test to be "certified" by an association, however you will always be lacking the background and solid grounds you'd have with a comprehensive education. I think that as long as there is the idea that anybody who has a knowledge of two languages can be a translator, translators will not receive the credit and respect they deserve for a profession that, in my opinion, requires even more dedication and education than many of the other professions I mentioned. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:55
Dutch to English
+ ...
| A truck load of ethics wouldn't pay the rent!! | Jul 30, 2003 |
Williamson wrote:
In the end in this world everything is all about money, not about ethics.
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Miller
Local time: 00:55
German to English
| A professional translator | Aug 4, 2003 |
A professional translator is somebody who is bilingual and qualified in - or has a thorough knowledge of - the specialist field in which he/she translates, ie. not somebody with a flashy diploma and who is a member of loads of professional bodies.
| | | | Miller
Local time: 00:55
German to English
| A professional translator | Aug 4, 2003 |
Careful! We use "his/her" nowadays.
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