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I\'d like to hear your views - kudoz answering policy
Thread poster: Bertha S. Deffenbaugh

Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jan 31, 2002

Whenever an asker posts a question where he/she expects us to translate over 60 words, I find myself wondering what to do.



Here is a \"case\":



1) An asker presents a whole poem of over 60 words.



2) Answerer number 1 answers and translates only the title and tells the asker that he/she is not going to translate the whole poem.



3) Another answerer [ answerer number 2] does exactly the same thing: translates only the title.



4) A third answerer, seeing that the two previous colleagues have not answered but the title, decides to answer PART of the poem, not all of it because it is too long, but the first verse.



5) The third answerer gets 4 points.



For now,I will abstain from giving my personal opinion. I am interested in hearing yours.



Thanks to all.



BSD



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lcmolinari  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 07:46
Member
French to English
+ ...
No time to worry about it Jan 31, 2002

Personally, I wouldn\'t worry about it. Whenever I see questions as you described, I just don\'t answer, even if I have the perfect answer for part of the question.



There\'s always someone who will do a little more than the rest for the points, if given time certainly someone would have translated the whole thing. the point is - who cares? It\'s only 4 points, who has the time to worry about such things?
[addsig]


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Maya Jurt  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 13:46
Member (2002)
French to German
+ ...
KudoZ, lots of KudoZ Jan 31, 2002

Dear Bertha,

KudoZ does it! Some people are hoarding points. Their aim is not helping others, but helping themselves, and they have all the right to do it, even if some of us wish we had a common goal (helping each other, improving our knowledge)and a slight penchant towards solidarity.



When the first answerer just translates the title and the second does likewise, it means that the second comes just seconds or minutes after the first and has not seen the first answer. But when a dozen members agree with those two and then comes the umpteenth and translates the whole poem, or twenty questions in a row (this has happened) it simply means that Kudoz is all he wants. Couldn\'t care less for what other people think about his \"willingness\" to help.

We simply have to put up with it.



There is worse now: A whole bunch of people look up old and graded questions, answered month ago, and suddenly they agree with you. When you get that mail, you don\'t even rember the the question or the answer you gave. Why do they do that? BrownieZ is the word. They can use them for bidding. And they agree with anyone on the same question, right or wrong answer.



Something else. Have you looked at the agency ratings? Someone rates agencies with 5 (of course) and comments: if you ever need to translate from ..... to ...., please contact me. Now what kind of rating board is this??? An advertising billboard. And we have to put up with it.



Nice company we keep, but we stay on because of all those good and interesting contacts we make, the advice and help we get.



Greetings

Maya


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Maya Jurt  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 13:46
Member (2002)
French to German
+ ...
KudoZ II Jan 31, 2002

I forgot: Whenever I have time, I answer questions, new ones, where others have not given their opinion. If I wanted the KudoZ desperately, I would wait till some people have answered, like others do. What happens to my answer? People who would not have known how to go about, get inspired and spin the thread further.



We have some very qualified members who wait till people have answered, come in and answer very scientifically, with quotes and links and what else. And they get the points.



Today, there was a question \"power house\" in German. I did not post my answer, but agreed with the first one and added a link which showed that in fact, it was the name of a gym. What did the others do? Looked up my link and gave other answers, when the first one was perfectly all right for the name of a gym.



I often miss the points because I answer before the others. Does it matter? Not to me.


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Paul Stevens  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:46
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Don't answer the query Jan 31, 2002

My very simple view is that if someone expects a translation of a 60 word poem, then he/she should pay for a professional translation of it.



Surely it is not the purpose of Kudos to translate a whole poem. It is rather to translate tricky words or phrases, and 60 words is, to say the least, rather more than a phrase.



I would thus not bother to even try to undertake the translation and I would urge others to take a similar stance.


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mckinnc  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:46
French to English
+ ...
Conspiracy theorists' corner Jan 31, 2002

Maya,



I find it hard to believe that people would actually hold off answering until a few answers come in and then clean up.



And how on earth would you know whether somebody had done what you suggest? Is it not possible that someone may not look at any of the questions for a few hours or even days, then go through open ones out of interest?



I know I\'ve done that.



Sometimes a person may provide an answer which almost answers the question percectly but not quite and it takes somebody else to finish it off. I know I\'ve seen people do this with my answers and at times you could say that it\'s a bit of a rip-off but does it really matter?





Quote:


On 2002-01-31 19:50, mayagyan wrote:

I forgot: Whenever I have time, I answer questions, new ones, where others have not given their opinion. If I wanted the KudoZ desperately, I would wait till some people have answered, like others do. What happens to my answer? People who would not have known how to go about, get inspired and spin the thread further.



We have some very qualified members who wait till people have answered, come in and answer very scientifically, with quotes and links and what else. And they get the points.



Today, there was a question \"power house\" in German. I did not post my answer, but agreed with the first one and added a link which showed that in fact, it was the name of a gym. What did the others do? Looked up my link and gave other answers, when the first one was perfectly all right for the name of a gym.



I often miss the points because I answer before the others. Does it matter? Not to me.



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Maya Jurt  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 13:46
Member (2002)
French to German
+ ...
Colin, sorry! Jan 31, 2002

I really don\'t mind people doing that.

But it is simply obvious. When you open a question, you ready first the answers people have given.

You give your agrees and disagrees. And maybe you give your own answer.

You are guided by the already given answers, if you want it or not.

That is the name of the game. What is wrong with it?

What I mind sometimes, is people giving exactly the same answer as mine or sombody else\'s, but with references and quotes and never ending comments. They\'ll get the points. That\'s also the name of the game.


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 07:46
German to English
+ ...
KudoZ = game Jan 31, 2002

I think most of the KudoZ-related problems stem from the fact that way too many people take it too seriously. They have come to see KudoZ points as some kind of \"Internet currency\", but they forget that it is all just a game (with the added advantage of being able to help others).



I have yet to meet one client who even glances at the KudoZ scores of potential candidates. The \"asker history\", however, would be a more valuable tool for outsourcers: they could view the types of questions translators have asked and form an opinion on a translator\'s ability to handle certain language pairs and subject matters. Unfortunately, the \"asker history\" is still not working properly; instead of being accessible from individual questions only, it should be included in each member\'s profile for easy access.


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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Here's a radical thought Jan 31, 2002

I found this on the page that appears after you grade a question:



Quote:


The pros at ProZ.com provide terms help free of charge. Payment is not expected. However, if you wish to express your appreciation, you may do so by donating a dollar to the charity of choice of the person who answered your question.The Amazon.com payment system is used for making donations, and the money is directed to the chosen charity by ProZ.com. If you have ever bought anything from Amazon.com, you may be able to donate with 1-click convenience.





So, what if from now on, we all donate our KudoZ and Browniz and WhatnotZ to a good cause, instead of piling them up like there\'s no tomorrow?



Better yet, let\'s not get any points at all, and send whatever we earn at ProZ directly to the charity of our choice(*).







(*)I know what you\'re thinking, but our own wallet is not a registered charity.





[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-01-31 23:51 ]

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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I think you have gone way too far, Werner Feb 1, 2002

QUOTE:



Unfortunately, the \"asker history\" is still not working properly; instead of being accessible from individual questions only, it should be included in each member\'s profile for easy access\"



END OF QUOTE



This looks more like a job for the FBI.





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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Moreover... Feb 1, 2002

... the asker\'s history does not necesarily show much.



For instance, I have two neighbours, two young brilliant girls who are thinking of beginning their studies on translation. They often visit me and we talk and exchange ideas. You cannot imagine the many times these two girls have used my computer, my glossaries, my samples. More important than that, they have entered proz, and have posted questions to get help on their \"translations\" and they did that using MY computer. They love PROZ, they enjoy it a lot, and I never thought it would be a bad idea letting them use my e-mail address to request help from PROZ professionals.

My asker\'s history must be loaded with questions I posted myself but also with questions posted by these two young friends. So if you looked at it, you would never know which were posted by me or by them...



Though I consider myself a good professional, I very often feel the need to share opinions with other colleagues, and very often have asked questions and requested help, not precisely because I did not know what to do, but because I wanted to exchange ideas, to get other people\'s opinions... Not all questions come from people who do not know or who cannot make it without help;...many questions are the result of sheer curiosity or the need to know what the colleagues would do in the same situation, getting a better or cleverer idea receiving an intelligent suggestion, sheer SHARING.



Think about it.



BSD


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 08:46
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Answer to Bertha Feb 1, 2002

Bertha says :

(sorry I don\'t know how quotes work)

--------------------------------------------

Whenever an asker posts a question where he/she expects us to translate over 60 words, I find myself wondering what to do.



Here is a \"case\":



1) An asker presents a whole poem of over 60 words.



2) Answerer number 1 answers and translates only the title and tells the asker that he/she is not going to translate the whole poem.

--------------------------------------------

This could be me

-------------------------------------------

3) Another answerer [ answerer number 2] does exactly the same thing: translates only the title.

---------------------------------------------

This could be me too, if I didn\'t see the first one (only in this case)

--------------------------------------------

4) A third answerer, seeing that the two previous colleagues have not answered but the title, decides to answer PART of the poem, not all of it because it is too long, but the first verse.

--------------------------------------------

I think it\'s not fair. It doesn\'t matter if it is a verse, a paragraph or the whole text.

--------------------------------------------

5) The third answerer gets 4 points.

---------------------------------------------If it hadn\'t been written it wouldn\'t have happened.

But other translators will agree with the first answer and add comments. If the asker doesn\'t award Kudoz, the answer will be choosen by peers because of the agrees. And I think that this isn\'t a fair way to earn Kudoz. I have got some like this, but it wasn\'t what I intended. The first time I was really surprised. You can\'t know if the asker is going to \"pay\" or not.

What to do with this questions? Squash? Not agree with the one who says \"this is a site for translators...\"?

I want to know other\'s opinions too.



Claudia



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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 07:46
German to English
+ ...
Talking about far-fetched scenarios! Feb 1, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-02-01 00:17, Bertha wrote:

... the asker\'s history does not necesarily show much.



For instance, I have two neighbours, two young brilliant girls who are thinking of beginning their studies on translation. They often visit me and we talk and exchange ideas. You cannot imagine the many times these two girls have used my computer, my glossaries, my samples. More important than that, they have entered proz, and have posted questions to get help on their \"translations\" and they did that using MY computer. They love PROZ, they enjoy it a lot, and I never thought it would be a bad idea letting them use my e-mail address to request help from PROZ professionals.

My asker\'s history must be loaded with questions I posted myself but also with questions posted by these two young friends. So if you looked at it, you would never know which were posted by me or by them...



Though I consider myself a good professional, I very often feel the need to share opinions with other colleagues, and very often have asked questions and requested help, not precisely because I did not know what to do, but because I wanted to exchange ideas, to get other people\'s opinions... Not all questions come from people who do not know or who cannot make it without help;...many questions are the result of sheer curiosity or the need to know what the colleagues would do in the same situation, getting a better or cleverer idea receiving an intelligent suggestion, sheer SHARING.



Think about it.



BSD





So, you give out your ProZ username and password to just about anyone?



Besides, the issue of the \"asker history\" has already been dealt with in another thread (100% agreement, by the way!).



By the way, Bertha: you can have the girls create their own profile(s) - even from the same computer. Then, they could log in using their own username and password.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-02-01 03:29 ]

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 08:46
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Reply to Maya Feb 1, 2002

Your comment refers to more items than Bertha\'s, that\'s why I separe them. (Please, I know my English isn\'t good, and I suffer for not beeing able to express myself as I would like, pardon me).

-------------------------------------------

KudoZ does it! Some people are hoarding points. Their aim is not helping others, but helping themselves, and they have all the right to do it, even if some of us wish we had a common goal (helping each other, improving our knowledge)and a slight penchant towards solidarity.



When the first answerer just translates the title and the second does likewise, it means that the second comes just seconds or minutes after the first and has not seen the first answer. But when a dozen members agree with those two and then comes the umpteenth and translates the whole poem, or twenty questions in a row (this has happened) it simply means that Kudoz is all he wants. Couldn\'t care less for what other people think about his \"willingness\" to help.

We simply have to put up with it.

-------------------------------------------

I agree. This person can\'t ignore what others think about the question.He/She doesn\'t matter. When you say \"20 questions in a row\" do you mean in one question? Or 20 questions ? In this case I think it is another problem.

------------------------------------------

There is worse now: A whole bunch of people look up old and graded questions, answered month ago, and suddenly they agree with you. When you get that mail, you don\'t even rember the the question or the answer you gave. Why do they do that? BrownieZ is the word. They can use them for bidding. And they agree with anyone on the same question, right or wrong answer.

-------------------------------------------

It is like when pupils cheat for an exam. It won\'t profit them in far.

---------------------------------------------

Something else. Have you looked at the agency ratings? Someone rates agencies with 5 (of course) and comments: if you ever need to translate from ..... to ...., please contact me. Now what kind of rating board is this??? An advertising billboard. And we have to put up with it.

---------------------------------------------

I don\'t know this subject.

--------------------------------------------

I forgot: Whenever I have time, I answer questions, new ones, where others have not given their opinion. If I wanted the KudoZ desperately, I would wait till some people have answered, like others do. What happens to my answer? People who would not have known how to go about, get inspired and spin the thread further.

We have some very qualified members who wait till people have answered, come in and answer very scientifically, with quotes and links and what else. And they get the points.

--------------------------------------------

It happens. It has happened to me, but some times the asker understands what has happened and thanks the one who gave the complete answer and the one (or the others) who helped to reach it. And it is grateful when this happens, you don\'t feel as if you had been stollen (I feel my english is horrible)

---------------------------------------------I often miss the points because I answer before the others. Does it matter? Not to me.

---------------------------------------------

It is the best way to take it. I am sure that peers whose answer you complete or some askers see the difference and know like this what kind of person you are.



Claudia













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Atenea Acevedo  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Bertha is right, but AbacusTrans is even more... Feb 1, 2002

...in saying that most people take KudoZ too serious. If I were to contact any of us, translators who are ProZ members and my favorite candidate had so many points (both, BrowniZ and KudoZ) I\'d wonder how many hours a day they spend here and not actually working... meaning, how rich his/her experience truly is.

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