| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Has anyone else experienced a fall in workload in the last few months? Thread poster: Dave Greatrix
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Dave Greatrix 
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:32
Dutch to English
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TOPIC STARTER | I would like an apology | Jul 27, 2003 |
Aisha Maniar wrote:
Yes, David, your initial post is both racist and arrogant; I don't believe you'd feel too pleased if someone posted something similar about translators resident in Spain/Spanish translators.
I agree with many of the other posters that there is more at hand here than the classic (and tired) old blame game, however, I would like to know what your proof is that "translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block)" are poaching your work? I took the liberty of seeing which members of Proz.com in India (too many countries to sift through in the "Eastern Bloc") offer Dutch-English as a language combination...needless to say they were few, but their prices (at least the ones I saw) were not peanuts, and furthermore, what proof do you have that they are not qualified for the job? How do you know how good their English is? I've worked as a teacher in the UK and I can tell you that some of my refugee (Britain's underdogs) students wrote/communicated in better English in England than the native speaker students...what test of excellent command of the English language is really required?
I'm sorry that you're losing work and I can't offer any solutions (although I think some of the others have offered excellent advice) but I do believe that your finger-pointing exercise is misguided.
Aisha
What I actually wrote was:
"Is it just me, or has anyone else experienced a fall in workload in the last few months?
Could it be that the translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block) are making inroads into the industry??
Any thoughts?"
Now Alisha, please tell me where the racist remarks are in this text?
Could you also tell me where I displayed any arrogance?
To give you a hand the following from wordnet:
• 1. racism -- (the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races)
• 2. racism, racialism, racial discrimination -- (discriminatory or abusive behaviour towards members of another race)
• 1. (1) arrogance, haughtiness, highhandedness, lordliness -- (overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors)
If anything, on reading the second definition, I feel it is you that is arrogant.
I also fail to see what my living in Spain has got to do with the price of eggs.
Furthermore, where in my text did I doubt anyones ability to translate or speak correct English. It would appear that you raised those points.
If you didn't know, you may have worked in the UK, but I am English, and was raised in the UK. So please do not try to educate me on refugees living in England.
Anyone that knows me will verify that neither am I racist or arrogant.
I am a fun loving young fifty year old, and probably much better company than you by the sound of it.
Oh yes, while I'm here:
1. underdog -- (one at a disadvantage and expected to lose)
Thousands of British homeless are likely to disagree with you.
[Edited at 2003-07-27 16:13]
| | | | | AISHA writes: | Jul 27, 2003 |
David Greatrix wrote:
Aisha Maniar wrote:
Yes, David, your initial post is both racist and arrogant; I don't believe you'd feel too pleased if someone posted something similar about translators resident in Spain/Spanish translators.
I agree with many of the other posters that there is more at hand here than the classic (and tired) old blame game, however, I would like to know what your proof is that "translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block)" are poaching your work? I took the liberty of seeing which members of Proz.com in India (too many countries to sift through in the "Eastern Bloc") offer Dutch-English as a language combination...needless to say they were few, but their prices (at least the ones I saw) were not peanuts, and furthermore, what proof do you have that they are not qualified for the job? How do you know how good their English is? I've worked as a teacher in the UK and I can tell you that some of my refugee (Britain's underdogs) students wrote/communicated in better English in England than the native speaker students...what test of excellent command of the English language is really required?
I'm sorry that you're losing work and I can't offer any solutions (although I think some of the others have offered excellent advice) but I do believe that your finger-pointing exercise is misguided.
Aisha
What I actually wrote was:
"Is it just me, or has anyone else experienced a fall in workload in the last few months?
Could it be that the translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block) are making inroads into the industry??
Any thoughts?"
Now Alisha, please tell me where the racist remarks are in this text?
Could you also tell me where I displayed any arrogance?
To give you a hand the following from wordnet:
• 1. racism -- (the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races)
• 2. racism, racialism, racial discrimination -- (discriminatory or abusive behaviour towards members of another race)
• 1. (1) arrogance, haughtiness, highhandedness, lordliness -- (overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors)
If anything, on reading the second definition, I feel it is you that is arrogant.
I also fail to see what my living in Spain has got to do with the price of eggs.
Furthermore, where in my text did I doubt anyones ability to translate or speak correct English. It would appear that you raised those points.
If you didn't know, you may have worked in the UK, but I am English, and was raised in the UK. So please do not try to educate me on refugees living in England.
Anyone that knows me will verify that neither am I racist or arrogant.
I do apologise if you are offended...I did not mean to say that you are racist but I did find the posting offensive. By the way, my name is AISHA, not Alisha...I was also born and raised in the UK...and I really don't understand your final remark...it's relevant to....I am a fun loving young fifty year old, and probably much better company than you by the sound of it.
My questions are still valid nonetheless.
AISHA
[Edited at 2003-07-27 16:36]
| | | | Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:32
Dutch to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Your questions are not valid when directed at me. | Jul 27, 2003 |
Aisha Maniar wrote: David Greatrix wrote:
Aisha Maniar wrote:
Yes, David, your initial post is both racist and arrogant; I don't believe you'd feel too pleased if someone posted something similar about translators resident in Spain/Spanish translators.
I agree with many of the other posters that there is more at hand here than the classic (and tired) old blame game, however, I would like to know what your proof is that "translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block)" are poaching your work? I took the liberty of seeing which members of Proz.com in India (too many countries to sift through in the "Eastern Bloc") offer Dutch-English as a language combination...needless to say they were few, but their prices (at least the ones I saw) were not peanuts, and furthermore, what proof do you have that they are not qualified for the job? How do you know how good their English is? I've worked as a teacher in the UK and I can tell you that some of my refugee (Britain's underdogs) students wrote/communicated in better English in England than the native speaker students...what test of excellent command of the English language is really required?
I'm sorry that you're losing work and I can't offer any solutions (although I think some of the others have offered excellent advice) but I do believe that your finger-pointing exercise is misguided.
Aisha What I actually wrote was: "Is it just me, or has anyone else experienced a fall in workload in the last few months? Could it be that the translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block) are making inroads into the industry?? Any thoughts?" Now Alisha, please tell me where the racist remarks are in this text? Could you also tell me where I displayed any arrogance? To give you a hand the following from wordnet: • 1. racism -- (the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races) • 2. racism, racialism, racial discrimination -- (discriminatory or abusive behaviour towards members of another race) • 1. (1) arrogance, haughtiness, highhandedness, lordliness -- (overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors) If anything, on reading the second definition, I feel it is you that is arrogant. I also fail to see what my living in Spain has got to do with the price of eggs. Furthermore, where in my text did I doubt anyones ability to translate or speak correct English. It would appear that you raised those points. If you didn't know, you may have worked in the UK, but I am English, and was raised in the UK. So please do not try to educate me on refugees living in England. Anyone that knows me will verify that neither am I racist or arrogant. I do apologise if you are offended...I did not mean to say that you are racist but I did find the posting offensive. By the way, my name is AISHA, not Alisha...I was also born and raised in the UK...and I really don't understand your final remark...it's relevant to....I am a fun loving young fifty year old, and probably much better company than you by the sound of it. My questions are still valid nonetheless. AISHA [Edited at 2003-07-27 16:13]
I made no such assertions.
| | | | Magda Dziadosz
Poland
Local time: 17:32
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
| On competition | Jul 27, 2003 |
Williamson wrote:
To what extend is "Bidders must live in" legal within the E.U. context?
This I don't know, but suppose you are looking for Icelandic - Zulu translator, you will probably search mainly in South Africa and Iceland and won't buy from, say, 'a professional Icelandic-Zulu translator living for 20 years in Paragway'. In case of translators and interpreters the closer we are to our target (and source!) languages, the better, From the competitiveness point of you.
Magda
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Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:32
Flemish to English
+ ...
| A practical example. | Jul 27, 2003 |
Suppose on the second of May 2004, a British translation company (E.U.) has an offer for English>Polish, but the bidder must live in the UK. That means that, even if you have the necessary qualifications and experience, you cannot bid for the offer because you live in Poland (E.U.).
Yes, I know the customer (buyer of a service) is free to state his conditions, but I am not too sure either if he, when based in the E.U., can limit his offer to a particular country within the E.U.?
In ... See more Suppose on the second of May 2004, a British translation company (E.U.) has an offer for English>Polish, but the bidder must live in the UK. That means that, even if you have the necessary qualifications and experience, you cannot bid for the offer because you live in Poland (E.U.).
Yes, I know the customer (buyer of a service) is free to state his conditions, but I am not too sure either if he, when based in the E.U., can limit his offer to a particular country within the E.U.?
In practise, this boils down to falsification of the principle of free competition within the framework of the Common-Market by a service provider based in the E.U., (regardless of the language combination). If there is something which the E.U. is very senstive about, it is just that. If you have time, read the judgements there have been with regard to attempts to regulate or dominate the market.
Translators are too small fish to complain. However, it might be interesting to put the question to the competent DG. You never know, one just might get an answer. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 18:32
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
| Peace, please! | Jul 27, 2003 |
Hey, dear colelagues, ladies and gentlemen, friends, comrades, whoever!
Translating (and interpreting even more!) is one profession which teaches tolerance, right? Please pay less attention to particular words which may be regarded as offensive if one puts some effort to find offence ot is simply more sensitive than others. Be tolerant to each other.
To answer rzawadzk, it does not really matter where you are based, Ukraine, Poland or North Pole, for that matter. What ... See more Hey, dear colelagues, ladies and gentlemen, friends, comrades, whoever!
Translating (and interpreting even more!) is one profession which teaches tolerance, right? Please pay less attention to particular words which may be regarded as offensive if one puts some effort to find offence ot is simply more sensitive than others. Be tolerant to each other.
To answer rzawadzk, it does not really matter where you are based, Ukraine, Poland or North Pole, for that matter. What matters is if one has the abilities, experience, commitment and probably a piece of luck, the result can and will be just great. I'm a full-time freelance translator who entered the web only two years ago. Without giving fugures, I can tell you on good months my earnings (monthly) are comparable to per annum income in an average European country. True, sometimes I have to sleep much less than I'd like to, but that's the way I choose for myself.
Best luck to everybody!
Oleg ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Don't you agree with globalization? | Jul 27, 2003 |
David Greatrix wrote:
Could it be that the translators that work for practically nothing (India, Eastern Block) are making inroads into the industry??
Any thoughts?
Hi David and everyone,
Personally I have had a steep increase in workload the last few months, though I can't really tell what the reasons are
But I don't think it's easy to compare my situation and yours considering the language pairs in which we work and therefore the very different sources of work that we may have.
As for your remarks, I don't think they are charged with racism or anything like that, but they seem to show some kind of annoyance or frustration...
This has been discussed in several topics before. If people in India or other countries charge less in terms of Euros it is because the exchange rates allow them to make a good living out of those euros. It has *nothing* to do with quality. There would be a problem with quality if those lower prices were being charged by people living in your same area or an area with the same cost of living (have you checked that?). But you can't say that because you live in a comparatively expensive area, everybody else in the world has to charge a rate as high as yours.
I don't know many Indian translators, but I have also worked in the IT business and Indian professionals are very well regarded in this area, they have a very strong IT industry that they are exporting. Yet their salaries /prices are cheaper than those of Western countries. What is wrong with that?
I can't see the problem. If they are doing a good job, making a good living out of it, and it is cheap for their clients, it looks like quite a perfect situation. It may not be good for translators based in Europe, but then, that's what happens when you have free trade. On the other hand, it is also good for you because the clients of those translators (usually companies) that are based in Europe are able to reduce their own costs by getting cheaper high-quality translations, so they can offer in turn cheaper products and services that you probably consume.
Leaving this aside, I think that another reason that may generally reduce the translation workload (not this year, but over the last few years) is that nowadays translators can be much more productive than they were a few years ago. Nowadays, with fast computers, online resources, internet searching, translation memory tools, spelling checks in word processors, etc. you can work much faster than a few years ago when your only resources where a bunch of hardcopy dictionaries (you could never have enough) that took much longer to query, there were no "Kudoz" or communities where to find quick help, etc.
So this increase in productivity has to result in a fall in workload, if the number of translators has remained the same (or increased).
| | | | sylver
Local time: 23:32
English to French
| Hey! Not again! | Jul 28, 2003 |
What is your point bringing interpretation again on the plate? It is completely off topic on this thread and beside you already brought up your opinion on that in this thread:
www.proz.com/topic/12215
There is NO law preventing ANYONE to decide WHERE he wants to put HIS money. Got it? Period. End of cycle. Finito. Terminé. Basta. Iut.
Sylver
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Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:32
Flemish to English
+ ...
Hence, I shall ask people who are more competent than I what laws and restrictions apply.
| | | | | What is the problem with limiting offers to geographic areas? | Jul 28, 2003 |
Williamson wrote:
Hence, I shall ask people who are more competent than I what laws and restrictions apply.
You seem overly concerned about jobs containing a requirement that translators must live in a certain country or area. Is it because your country is not a member of the European Union and you don't want to be left out?
I'm not in the European Union but I don't see why customers or somebody who has a document to translate should be forced to offer it to the world at large. After all, even if they don't include that requirement in job offers, they can simply rule out everybody they don't like as fast as they can hit the Delete key. So why bother?
Personally I don't see the point of a customer limiting the geographic area of bidders, because they are only restricting their possibilities, but on the other hand, I don't see why they should be forced to offer it to everyone, which would be very difficult to control in practice anyway.
| | | | | Definitely so... | Aug 1, 2003 |
Dear David,
Yes, I am experiencing a terrible fall of workload now as well. I guess it's just summer...
Can't wait for autumn. Or at least something to pay my taxes
Best wishes,
Flavio
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