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Being paid less than agreed.
Thread poster: Aisha Rishi

Aisha Rishi
Pakistan
Local time: 05:05
English to Urdu
+ ...
Sep 11, 2003

I did a project for an australian company. It was re - typing of 3 pages, and I told them my minimum charges for a rush job was 15USD, and they asked me to do that project at 5 in the morning, which I handed over to them at 6, as it was urgent. Anyway, they paid me today only 10USD saying that they think that 15USD is too much for typing and 10 is just fine so thats why they r paying me 10USD. However when I informed them I charge 15USD for rush job and sent the invoice with it too, they didnt contact me for it to confirm or anything. I cant digest this thing, this is totally wrong. What do you guys say about it?

[Edited at 2003-09-11 10:12]


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xxxncfialho  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:05
German to Portuguese
+ ...
Blueboard Sep 11, 2003

If they accepted your price and in the end dont pay it, give them a bad entry in the Blueborad and tell them, so maybe they change their mind
Good luck
Natália


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Attila Piróth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:05
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Reducing an agreed price is unacceptable Sep 11, 2003

azure_8 wrote:

Anyway, they paid me today only 10USD saying that they think that 15USD is too much for typing and 10 is just fine so thats why they r paying me 10USD. However when I informed them I charge 15USD for rush job and sent the invoice with it too, they didnt contact me for it to confirm or anything.



If I were you, I would inform the agency that I would post the case on the Blue Board and other forums. If it is not worth 5 dollars for them not to have a story like that circulating then many translators - and, possibly, some clients - will avoid them.

[Edited at 2003-09-11 09:50]


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Aisha Rishi
Pakistan
Local time: 05:05
English to Urdu
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How about giving them one chance Sep 11, 2003

Attila Piroth wrote:

azure_8 wrote:

Anyway, they paid me today only 10USD saying that they think that 15USD is too much for typing and 10 is just fine so thats why they r paying me 10USD. However when I informed them I charge 15USD for rush job and sent the invoice with it too, they didnt contact me for it to confirm or anything.



If I were you, I would inform the agency that I would post the case on the Blue Board and other forums. If it is not worth 5 dollars for them not to have a story like that circulating then many translators - and, possibly, some clients - will avoid them.

[Edited at 2003-09-11 09:50]


Now that I have given them a warning about it, I was thinking of giving them one more chance, if they do it again next time, then I will post the feedback in all the translators forums I go to. I just wanted to know from you people, if this was really as bad as I think it is. I am really angry about it though, especially because they made me do it at 5 in the morning.


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Annira Silver  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:05
Finnish to English
+ ...
Appalling - both conduct and pay rate Sep 11, 2003

I agree, the agency's behaviour is outrageous. But apart form that, what are you doing, working outside normal hours to deliver a rush job for USD 15? A minimum charge twice that amount would be more appropriate. I wouldn't have got out of bed for less than USD 40.

The agency should be named on the BB, so everyone can avoid it like the plague. They have exploited you and your good nature, and will try to exploit others.

Annira


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Valentina Pecchiar  Identity Verified
Italy
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
It is as bad as it looks, maybe worse Sep 11, 2003

azure_8 wrote:

I just wanted to know from you people, if this was really as bad as I think it is. I am really angry about it though, especially because they made me do it at 5 in the morning.


Imagine the reverse situation: the client sends you a job, x words in y time for z money. You don't really like the terms (because you'd rather do x words in y+1 time for z+2 moneys), but you don't complain witn the client.

At y time you only deliver x-f(y-1) words and send an invoice for z+2 (sic) money, because that's what you reckon a fair deal...

Would this not be a kinda loony behavior from your side, from the translator's? That's what your client did, more or less...

Would they (you as an outsourcerer) give a second chance to a translator who has behaved as outlined above?
IMHO, no second chance is to be rewarded to these guys.


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Olga Simon  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 01:05
English to Russian
+ ...
I beg to disagree Sep 11, 2003

Tayfun Torunoglu wrote:

5 USD is not important money and it is not worth quarrel with anyone especially with a Client.


We are talking about the principle here, not exactly 5 dollars, although not everyone will share your attitude towards 5 or 15 dollars.

Tayfun Torunoglu wrote:
Even total 15 is not an important money to dispute, an agency may send next time hundreds or thousands dollars worth project if satisfied with your work. A client/agency is always more important than a 5 usd.


Yeah, sure, they will send a multi-thousand dollar project to be translated and when payment time comes they will again cut off 30%. Will you again say that it is not worth it?

Try to underpay your plumber and wait for results...


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Annira Silver  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:05
Finnish to English
+ ...
It's the principle - and the pettiness Sep 11, 2003

"5 USD is not important money and it is not worth quarrel with anyone especially with a Client."

It's the principle, as Olga already said. And how petty of the agency to fleece 5 dollars (a massive third of an already mean fee) from a freelancer, who saved their bacon by taking the job at such short notice & unearthly hour!

The agency should be blacklisted. Their word means nothing and they are exploitative.


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Will Matter  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:05
English
+ ...
agree completely Sep 11, 2003

or your dentist, auto mechanic, doctor etc. People who do jobs like this should be paid the full price asked including translators/interpreters. Professional services rendered for an agreed-upon price demand full payment and the amount involved is irrelevant, it's the principle.

Try to underpay your plumber and wait for results...[/quote]


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Michele Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:05
German to English
+ ...
Demand your rightful payment. Sep 11, 2003

I agree with Olga and Annira, and have two points to make:

1) Just imagine when the job involves not $15 but $1500, and they want to cheat you out of $500? Letting this go would be a bad precedent to set, especially if you (azure_8) are considering working for them in the future. Nip this in the bud, before they get the idea you can be pushed around.

2) I have no idea of the personal situation, but remember that in a country like Pakistan, where the per-capita GDP is around $175 per month (according to e.g. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pk.html) $5 is not an insignificant amount of money.

Kind regards
Michele


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Aisha Rishi
Pakistan
Local time: 05:05
English to Urdu
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
you are right Sep 11, 2003

Michele Johnson wrote:

I agree with Olga and Annira, and have two points to make:

1) Just imagine when the job involves not $15 but $1500, and they want to cheat you out of $500? Letting this go would be a bad precedent to set, especially if you (azure_8) are considering working for them in the future. Nip this in the bud, before they get the idea you can be pushed around.

2) I have no idea of the personal situation, but remember that in a country like Pakistan, where the per-capita GDP is around $175 per month (according to e.g. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pk.html) $5 is not an insignificant amount of money.

Kind regards
Michele


$5 isnt an insiginifcant amount, its nearl 300 pakistani rupees. But I am not making$5 an issue here, all I was saying was that they should have paid on the agreed amount. But they did do a clever thing here, when I emailed them saying that I charge $15 for rush job, etc etc, they only replied syaing, dont worry about it, after I did the job and sent it to them along with the invoice, they didnt reply for it then either, only 2 days after they asked me for the PayPal id so they can send me the payment, and today I checked it as 10, and then they said

"$15.00US for just typing is a little more than we can pay you. We think that $10.00 is quiet fair, since this is even more than what we paid the actual translator. We appreciate your work and hope that we can always count on you in the future."

if they didnt like the rate they should have informed me when i sent the email about it, and its not my problem what they r paying their translator, its their and the translators problem. They are making it sound like as if they are doing me a big favour by giving me $10 for it.



[Edited at 2003-09-11 13:06]


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Annira Silver  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:05
Finnish to English
+ ...
Points of contractual law Sep 11, 2003

$5 isnt an insiginifcant amount, its nearl 300 pakistani rupees.

The agency is in Australia, where $5 *is* an insignificant amount. They know that it's worth much more to you, and still fleece you. No! Don't let them get away with it.

But I am not making$5 an issue here, all I was saying was that they should have paid on the agreed amount. But they did do a clever thing here, when I emailed them saying that I charge $15 for rush job, etc etc, they only replied syaing, dont worry about it, after I did the job and sent it to them along with the invoice, they didnt reply for it then either, only 2 days after they asked me for the PayPal id so they can send me the payment, and today I checked it as 10, and then they said

They accepted your quotation when they gave you the job. Like you say, they should have negotiated with you at the time, if they didn't like your fee. Your price was part of the contract. The agency has breached that contract by underpaying you.

"$15.00US for just typing is a little more than we can pay you. We think that $10.00 is quiet fair, since this is even more than what we paid the actual translator. We appreciate your work and hope that we can always count on you in the future."

That's totally beside the point. Your contract was for $15. Stick to your guns and demand payment in full!

Good luck!


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Graciela Carlyle  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
no second chances Sep 11, 2003

If they are unwilling to pay such a small difference, imagine what they'd do with a bigger amount.

The point is not the USD 5 but the bad behaviour.

I'd post them everywhere possible and never accept a job from them again.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:05
English to German
+ ...
Business principle vs. commercial judgment Sep 11, 2003

Hi all,
Tayfun wrote:
5 USD is not important money and it is not worth quarrel with anyone especially with a Client.


Tayfun, with all due respect, I strongly disagree. A business relationship must be built on mutual trust - changing an agreed price after delivery of the service is simply unacceptable.

Where I agree with you is that one must always apply commercial judgment regarding any controversial issue among business partners. To give you an example: today we received payment for an invoice of approx. 500 euros, less 10 euros in bank fees. The fees could have been avoided, had the customer (who is outside the EU) paid the money through their German head office. Am I going to contact them because of this? No way - arguing about these 10 euros could cost me the next job.

But - and this comes back to azure's question - if a customer behaves in this way, you should really ask yourself if you want that next job.

Azure, I really hope you'll be able to recover at least the 10 dollars.

Best regards, Ralf


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Aisha Rishi
Pakistan
Local time: 05:05
English to Urdu
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I don't think they will ever pay much Sep 11, 2003

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi all,
Tayfun wrote:
5 USD is not important money and it is not worth quarrel with anyone especially with a Client.


Tayfun, with all due respect, I strongly disagree. A business relationship must be built on mutual trust - changing an agreed price after delivery of the service is simply unacceptable.

Where I agree with you is that one must always apply commercial judgment regarding any controversial issue among business partners. To give you an example: today we received payment for an invoice of approx. 500 euros, less 10 euros in bank fees. The fees could have been avoided, had the customer (who is outside the EU) paid the money through their German head office. Am I going to contact them because of this? No way - arguing about these 10 euros could cost me the next job.

But - and this comes back to azure's question - if a customer behaves in this way, you should really ask yourself if you want that next job.

Azure, I really hope you'll be able to recover at least the 10 dollars.

Best regards, Ralf


All their jobs postings that I have seen on ProZ are of low rates 0.02 or 0.03USD per word, they never exceed from it, for every language, and very few words. So I don't think they ever do handle big projects. I don't want to work with them in the future, but I am giving them one more chance, no one can be more angry than I am on this issue, but I have always believed in giving one chance, if they do it to me the next time, then that will be it for them. I will be informing in the forum about them and also on the blue board and all the other sites. I still cant believe how a company can be so petty.


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