| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | How \"independent\" are you? Thread poster: Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
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Klaus Herrmann 
Germany
Local time: 04:21
Member (2002)
English to German
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| My two cents... | Feb 25, 2002 |
Quote: \"I honestly believe that if you deliver a good service and high quality translations at correct rates (not too low, not too high)\"
I wholeheartedly subscribe to that. This year is my 23rd in business, and so far, I\'ve been able to make a decent living.
The same goes for Allison\'s statement - there is a heap of work out there. And it\'s an established fact that demand will increase (e.g. a study by the EU predicts a significant increase in dem... See more Quote: \"I honestly believe that if you deliver a good service and high quality translations at correct rates (not too low, not too high)\"
I wholeheartedly subscribe to that. This year is my 23rd in business, and so far, I\'ve been able to make a decent living.
The same goes for Allison\'s statement - there is a heap of work out there. And it\'s an established fact that demand will increase (e.g. a study by the EU predicts a significant increase in demand).
Another asepct I find hard to dispute: 24 hours to the day just isn\'t enough. I demand another 12 hours. (Merely to emphasize that it is not difficult to find work, provided you know your stuff.)
And one final thing I agree to: yes, the market for low-end translations will die out, sooner or later.
Actually, Henry should add agree buttons to the forum 
My thoughts on being/becoming a freelance translator:
- Specialize. Language skills need to be your foundation, but hands-on experience in any given technical field will improve your situation significantly. The more, the better. My apologies for using me as an example. It\'s not meant as a lack of modesty, I\'m positive most of my succesful colleagues follow the same recipe : In my field, I\'m specialized to a degree that I\'m able find technical errors and misconceptions in the source document (has to be expected after 22 years, I suppose). My clients can rely on my translation being as concise as the original document, because I understand the underlying concepts and technologies.
Which seamlessly leads to machine translation and my take on it: there is a long way to go before I even start to worry about that. In addition to all the well-known problems, I think one aspect that is heavily underestimated. If you want a correct machine translation, you have to supply an 100% error free source document. And these are hard to come by.
If you don\'t understand what a document is about, don\'t translate it. Networking with fellow translator is a better alternative. Translating documents on a subject I don\'t know is not only dishonest to the client, it will also take essentially longer. Thus, it\'s a lousy investment of my time.
Enjoy what you are doing. Of course, I could be a programmer. I could be an electronics engineer. But I choose to be a translator, and even after 22 years, I enjoy it. Conceded – there are ways to make more money. But why should I spend the better part of my life on something I do not enjoy as much as what I am doing now?
So, to summarize it — if you are prepared to work hard and to keep learning day by day, if working with language fascinates you - translating will be a rewarding business for you. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ann VDP
Local time: 04:21
French to Dutch
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| Congratulations to Alison! | Feb 25, 2002 |
Just a quick note to Alison:
I know where you\'re coming from; I kept on working until I had to leave to the hospital both times I gave birth. And subsequently I wanted to leave after only three days in the hospital because I did not have my computer so I could not check my mail, etc... It is a drug! Translating is fun, being independent is fun, and you will see that being a mother is absolutely the best!!! Good luck! (May be we should start another tread on pregnancy & tran... See more Just a quick note to Alison:
I know where you\'re coming from; I kept on working until I had to leave to the hospital both times I gave birth. And subsequently I wanted to leave after only three days in the hospital because I did not have my computer so I could not check my mail, etc... It is a drug! Translating is fun, being independent is fun, and you will see that being a mother is absolutely the best!!! Good luck! (May be we should start another tread on pregnancy & translations, or babies & translations, so that the men do not have to read this  )
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| | | | Elena Miguel
Spain
Local time: 04:21
English to Spanish
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| Another issue | Feb 25, 2002 |
I fully agree with some of your answers. That was also the way I learned to say no when I have too much work.
Anyway, have you considered \"educating\" our clients? I mean, if we are available almost 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, I consider a question of pure manners not to pretend that we should also be always available to work on Saturdays (afternoon)/Sundays.
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation f... See more I fully agree with some of your answers. That was also the way I learned to say no when I have too much work.
Anyway, have you considered \"educating\" our clients? I mean, if we are available almost 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, I consider a question of pure manners not to pretend that we should also be always available to work on Saturdays (afternoon)/Sundays.
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation for next Monday (9.00 a.m. most of the times) I just wonder what this person would be doing on Sunday. Aren\'t we supposed to have a family, friends,etc.????
Maybe I\'m too extreme, but I begin to be fed up with this issue.
Any contribution??? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | For Alison and Anneken | Feb 25, 2002 |
I absolutely know what you\'re saying! I have no babies, but actually have a picture of me wearing my wedding gown, bouquet in hand and about to leave for the ceremony, in front of the PC e-mailing a job I had to deliver!
Actually, I love translating most than anything else and, luckily for me, I make a quite decent living out of it.
It\'s true that it\'s hard to say no, and before one knows, we can become slaves to our work. G... See more I absolutely know what you\'re saying! I have no babies, but actually have a picture of me wearing my wedding gown, bouquet in hand and about to leave for the ceremony, in front of the PC e-mailing a job I had to deliver!
Actually, I love translating most than anything else and, luckily for me, I make a quite decent living out of it.
It\'s true that it\'s hard to say no, and before one knows, we can become slaves to our work. Guess we have to learn to make decisions, weigh up every situation and decide whether a certain job worths our sleeping/personal time or it is better to delegate.
But, on the other hand, success results from hard work, dedication, and some sacrifices every now and then. So far, this has been my case... but no complaining aroud here!!
Cheers! ▲ Collapse
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XX789 (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 04:21
English to Dutch
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| Yes, you can become rich as a translator | Feb 25, 2002 |
The combined salary of me and my wife (who also is a translator) last year was 72604 Euro.
Enough for a nice car and a nice house
It all depends on how efficiently and how smart you can work.
Best,
Loek
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-02-25 19:19 ]
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 22:21
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Are we machines or slaves? | Feb 25, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-02-25 17:27, Delelis wrote:
I fully agree with some of your answers. That was also the way I learned to say no when I have too much work.
Anyway, have you considered \"educating\" our clients? I mean, if we are available almost 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, I consider a question of pure manners not to pretend that we should also be always available to work on Saturdays (afternoon)/Sundays.
... See more
Quote:
On 2002-02-25 17:27, Delelis wrote:
I fully agree with some of your answers. That was also the way I learned to say no when I have too much work.
Anyway, have you considered \"educating\" our clients? I mean, if we are available almost 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, I consider a question of pure manners not to pretend that we should also be always available to work on Saturdays (afternoon)/Sundays.
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation for next Monday (9.00 a.m. most of the times) I just wonder what this person would be doing on Sunday. Aren\'t we supposed to have a family, friends,etc.????
Maybe I\'m too extreme, but I begin to be fed up with this issue.
Any contribution???
Quite right. I guess it happens to all of us that a client calls us just before the end of business on a Friday afternoon and asks for a translation to be delivered by Monday morning.
That\'s where your terms and conditions come in: clearly state on your website (or wherever) what your business hours are and what your response time for voice-mail messages and e-mails is (e.g., my clients know that I can be contacted for new assignments only from Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm my local time). In addition, if they call you at, say, 4:45pm and request a translation of 3,000 words for Monday morning, you will have to tell them that 3,000 words requires roughly 1 or 1.5 business days (and \"business\" is the operative word here), and that does not include Saturdays and Sundays. So, technically, they could have it back either on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Educate your clients and make sure they understand your rules. Apart from all this, let\'s not forget the most important thing: clients often tend to pressure you unnecessarily: they call you at 4:45pm and expect the translation by Monday morning; however, the truth often is that they don\'t really need it until Tuesday or Wednesday anyway!!
As I state in my terms and conditions, \"big projects don\'t just fall out of the sky one day\" - i.e., the client must have known about this for quite some time.
Here\'s some more advice for you: stop answering your phone! I know it sounds stupid, but it has become a necessity. My clients know that all phone calls will be directed to voice-mail and that all e-mails and voice-mail messages will be answered within 24 hours (from Monday to Friday only). So, in this case this means that if a client calls on a Friday afternoon at 4:45pm, his call will not be returned until the next business day (= Monday). Plus, it helps weed out all the less-than-serious calls and telemarketers (or people that call you up for some exotic language combination that you don\'t even offer).
As much as we love our profession, we are also human beings with a social life and families. We need to eat, sleep, relax and recharge those batteries like everyone else - and, of course, we also need \"personal time\" for professional development, let\'s not forget about that!
Reliable and professional clients and agencies will understand this; the rest can go \"where the sun don\'t shine\" ▲ Collapse
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 22:21
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Reply to Klaus Hermann | Feb 25, 2002 |
Fully agree with your arguments! So, who can we contact about those extra 12 hours a day? 
| | | | | Net or gross? | Feb 25, 2002 |
Hey Loek, since you mention it, are you talking net or gross here? And with the car and house, they\'re scale models, right?
D
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| A very interesting thread... | Feb 25, 2002 |
that fits me like a glove! I have just graduated in translation studies and am now about to face the tough reality of the translators business, trying to get established... I am very motivated and can\'t await to become a professionnel translator, though every day I lose a little more of my confidence. Why? Well, perspectives for newstarters are rather gloomy these days. It\'s true that myself, I have only just started, but several friends of mine who graduated last year have already been looki... See more that fits me like a glove! I have just graduated in translation studies and am now about to face the tough reality of the translators business, trying to get established... I am very motivated and can\'t await to become a professionnel translator, though every day I lose a little more of my confidence. Why? Well, perspectives for newstarters are rather gloomy these days. It\'s true that myself, I have only just started, but several friends of mine who graduated last year have already been looking for months without being able to get a job, not even a badly paid one. It seems that nobody wants to give a chance to a beginner. Whenever there is a vacancy for an inhouse position, they look for someone with at least five years of experience... This has actually made me change my mind about my career plans. While I was still at university, I had planned first to look for an inhouse position after graduation , because I think that it is really important for a beginner to work in a team for some time and to learn from other more experienced translators before becoming independent (though I absolutely want to become independent sooner or later). Of course, like most students from my school I had dreamt of working for an international organisation, why not the UNESCO (which is Paris-based)... That was naive, I know. They have waiting lists of about ten years, and if there really is a vacancy you have to know the right people (it\'s all about Vitamin B, as we would say in German!). But even in companies or less important institutions there is no place for someone without professional experience. Most companies don\'t even reply when you send an application.
So I decided to become independent straight-away. Unfortunately, the same problem for freelancers. Nobody wants to entrust a translator without experience with a translation, even if he or she has a good academic background. The only clients who would give you work are clients who don\'t know anything about translation, who think that translating is something like \"type it in German\" and who expect you to do the job for a ridiculous price. In the end they will give it to someone who works almost for free or, even worse, have it translated by a computer programme. This is something that makes me furious. Translation is a service, a service with a certain value. Why are people always shocked at translation prices? Nobody would expect a plumber or a roofer to work for free, just because it\'s so much fun...!!!
Anyway, I\'m not willing to sell myself short, even if I still lack some experience. I consider myself as qualified, I have good language skills (please don\'t judge by my English, it\'s only my second foreign language, I have a good passive knowledge, but don\'t worry, I never considered translating into English), I did learn a lot at university and I am very scrupulous when I work. But obviously this is not enough. I totally agree with Alison that only translators who know their stuff will be able to really earn their living with translation, but the problem is how can you become a good translator (a specialist) if nobody gives you the opportunity to get some experience??? I know I still have to learn a lot of things, but for this I have to get started somehow. This is like a vicious circle.
The personal experiences of most of you made me quite optimistic though and made me all the more determined that it\'s worth trying. Even if it will take a while. In fact, while trying to get established,I am going to continue to do some typical student jobs like working as a telephonist for opinion polls. Really tedious, but flexible, as I\'ll be able to adapt my number of working hours to whether I have translation jobs to do or not.
Just some remarks on what another member wrote: It definetely is not true that teachers at translation school are not at all in touch with what is going on on the translation market. At my university (ESIT, Paris) all translation courses were given by professional translators and they often made us translate texts they had translated themselves for a client only a week or so before. A very practical way of learning I think. I think that there are a lot of clichés being spread about translation schools and the uselessness of translation studies, which is a pity because it influences also potential employers.
As for career perspectives, I know, and I think everybody knows, that you can\'t get rich as a translator and that it is much more reasonable to study law, engineering or computer studies, and I already knew that when I decided to study languages. But I think that the most important think is to do what you really like. After highschool I studied law for one year, but this had been a very rational decision and I have never regretted to have given up in favour of translation which may be less prestigious but which I personally find much more enriching (I don\'t think this word exists in English, does it?).
I can\'t deny that I am a little bit worried about my own future as a translator (for the moment I am far from translating 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, but it was great to hear that this is possible...!!!), but I try not to get too pessimistic. Being a translator really is the one job I want to do, and I am not at all willing to give up!!!
Good luck to everyone,
Carolin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Erika Pavelka (X)
Local time: 22:21
French to English
| We run a business! | Feb 25, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-02-25 17:27, Delelis wrote:
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation for next Monday (9.00 a.m. most of the times) I just wonder what this person would be doing on Sunday. Aren\'t we supposed to have a family, friends,etc.????
Perhaps translators have to start thinking of themselves more business owners. I mean, if you called your... See more Quote:
On 2002-02-25 17:27, Delelis wrote:
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation for next Monday (9.00 a.m. most of the times) I just wonder what this person would be doing on Sunday. Aren\'t we supposed to have a family, friends,etc.????
Perhaps translators have to start thinking of themselves more business owners. I mean, if you called your accountant on a Friday afternoon at 4:00 pm and asked them to calculate your income tax for Monday morning, I think they\'d laugh! Not only do they probably not work weekends, but that would be a huge task to do in 3 days!
Like Werner said, keep business hours. Impose a rush rate for jobs to be done overnight or on the weekend. Let\'s be the professionals we claim we are
Erika
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| | | | Sarah Dean (X)
French to English
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| The view from the bottom rung... | Feb 25, 2002 |
I\'ve been at this for about a month, I quit my day job (eek!) and pass the days at my computer tooling and retooling my anorexic resume, at least I have \"the degree\" to list...but I\'m not worried.
I have a small young family and a lot of debts (see reference above to \"the degree\") and I work in a deadly common language pair (FR>EN), but I\'m good at what I do and I\'m willing to wait it out...and I have a fantastic spouse who is behind me all the way. I just got acc... See more I\'ve been at this for about a month, I quit my day job (eek!) and pass the days at my computer tooling and retooling my anorexic resume, at least I have \"the degree\" to list...but I\'m not worried.
I have a small young family and a lot of debts (see reference above to \"the degree\") and I work in a deadly common language pair (FR>EN), but I\'m good at what I do and I\'m willing to wait it out...and I have a fantastic spouse who is behind me all the way. I just got accepted to my provincial professional association and I get great information here and in other places every day, and I know that soon, I too will be a functioning translator instead of just using \"freelancer\" as a euphemism for \"unemployed\"!
I\'m going to make it, by God! Queue the Mary Tyler Moore Show theme and pass the beret!
Cheers!
Sarah ▲ Collapse
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 22:21
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Good example | Feb 25, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-02-25 22:58, epavelka wrote:
Quote:
On 2002-02-25 17:27, Delelis wrote:
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation for next Monday (9.00 a.m. most of the times) I just wonder what this person would be doing on Sunday. Aren\'t we supposed to have a family, friends,etc.????
... See more Quote:
On 2002-02-25 22:58, epavelka wrote:
Quote:
On 2002-02-25 17:27, Delelis wrote:
Sometimes, when a client phones me (mainly on Friday afternoons) to propose a translation for next Monday (9.00 a.m. most of the times) I just wonder what this person would be doing on Sunday. Aren\'t we supposed to have a family, friends,etc.????
Perhaps translators have to start thinking of themselves more business owners. I mean, if you called your accountant on a Friday afternoon at 4:00 pm and asked them to calculate your income tax for Monday morning, I think they\'d laugh! Not only do they probably not work weekends, but that would be a huge task to do in 3 days!
Like Werner said, keep business hours. Impose a rush rate for jobs to be done overnight or on the weekend. Let\'s be the professionals we claim we are
Erika
Good example, Erika. My accountant regularly takes about 2-3 weeks to prepare my income tax return (even though it\'s pretty straightforward); so, yes, she would laugh me out of her office if I made a demand like that.
There is nothing wrong with working on weekends - provided that the client is willing to pay for that intrusion into your private life and personal time.
I have been translating 3 annual reports for a big utility group and 2 of its subsidiaries since November (thank God it\'s all done now!). These projects were so gigantic that I had no other choice but to work weekends as well. But the client was invoiced accordingly.
Erika is absolutely right: we have to think of ourselves as business owners and we have to let our clients know (think about it: someone who, in their profile, claims to be available 24/7 - and there are many individual translators who make this claim (I am not referring to agencies or groups of 2, 3 or more translators) - look pretty \"desperate for work\", in my opinion). ▲ Collapse
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Magda Dziadosz
Poland
Local time: 04:21
Member (2004)
English to Polish
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| A different approach to working hours | Feb 26, 2002 |
Trying to find your own niche and build your market one may consider as well working specifically on Saturday and Sundays and evening hours. By doing this you can enjoy a freedom of a free-lance: no nine-to five-work, you can do your shopping in the morning avoiding crowd, you can enjoy walking your dog when the sun shines, you don’t have to commute during rush hours and you don’t have to leave the town for weekend when everybody does! Giving you my own example: my customers know that they ... See more Trying to find your own niche and build your market one may consider as well working specifically on Saturday and Sundays and evening hours. By doing this you can enjoy a freedom of a free-lance: no nine-to five-work, you can do your shopping in the morning avoiding crowd, you can enjoy walking your dog when the sun shines, you don’t have to commute during rush hours and you don’t have to leave the town for weekend when everybody does! Giving you my own example: my customers know that they should avoid calling me before noon (unless it is extraordinary urgency), but if they do call at 5:45pm and ask for translation to be by tomorrow, they will get it. I also accept Friday-to-Monday assignments: think about it – no calls, no interruption, pleasure to work! And you can charge higher rate. In order to run your business that way you need support from your family, children probably won’t let you live like this. In my case I don’t have to compromise with family life since my husband is also a translator and he works at nights too. And our dog loves walking during the day . But you are quite right about “educating” your clients. First, they need to know that you are available on weekends and afternoons – you simply have to tell them. With time, when they all learn that you are able to deliver overnight translation of high quality, you will earn enough to stay in bed until noon! There are customers out there who are looking for someone to do the job when they go home and they are ready to pay for it. And my definition of being independent is: never get up before nine!!!
Magda
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-03-01 15:34 ] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | More hours in the day.... | Feb 26, 2002 |
Klaus said \"Another asepct I find hard to dispute: 24 hours to the day just isn\'t enough. I demand another 12 hours. (Merely to emphasize that it is not difficult to find work, provided you know your stuff.)\".
My problem - if I had another 12 hours in the day, there would suddenly be 16 hours worth of stuff to fill it with!!!
| | | | | About specialisation... | Feb 26, 2002 |
Just a few remarks which go along with what I wrote yesterday.
A lot of you pointed out how important specialisation is and I totally agree with you. But the question is: How do you get specialised??? You can\'t be a specialist from the start.
Having only just graduated, I have good knowledge in several fields, but I am not a specialist. How could I? I would really like to specialise (for example, I would love to specialise in legal translation), but for that I have to work f... See more Just a few remarks which go along with what I wrote yesterday.
A lot of you pointed out how important specialisation is and I totally agree with you. But the question is: How do you get specialised??? You can\'t be a specialist from the start.
Having only just graduated, I have good knowledge in several fields, but I am not a specialist. How could I? I would really like to specialise (for example, I would love to specialise in legal translation), but for that I have to work first, yet it is almost impossible to get jobs when you\'re not yet a specialist... Of course, I could lie in my CV and bids, making up references etc., but honestly, I hope there are other ways to get started.
I\'d be very happy about any advice - from a specialist...
Thanks,
Carolin ▲ Collapse
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