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agency is not producing the proof
Thread poster: xxxBrandis
xxxBrandis
Local time: 19:16
English to German
+ ...
Aug 11, 2006

Hi!
some time back I had delivered a translation and the agency said the quality was not good, and that they to get it proof-read and the cut would be around 50%. Now I had wanted to see the invoice the agency is paying the proof-reader, because it costs me. My work was good, and this seems like a blind game. This seems to be some standard practise in this trade, you see no proofs and the invoice value is reduced. Then what is the motivation to work for such agencies. All the while they talk about policies, and nothing ever fits right. Best Brandis


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Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 14:16
German to English
Look at the changed document Aug 11, 2006

I don't think any agency is likely to provide you with records of payment to a proofreader/checker.

However, you should be entitled to see the document submitted to the client so you can see where the sources of disagreement were ("so you can see how you can improve" if you need to provide a justification to your agency).


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 19:16
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I and my colleagues have cross-checked the supplied document Aug 11, 2006

Kevin Fulton wrote:

I don't think any agency is likely to provide you with records of payment to a proofreader/checker.

However, you should be entitled to see the document submitted to the client so you can see where the sources of disagreement were ("so you can see how you can improve" if you need to provide a justification to your agency).
I feel I am entitled the invoice of the proof-reader, to ensure that the agency is not making it a standard practice. I feel I am entitled to see when the cut goes out of my pocket. Whether the agency is likely ( we are talking about the right to have , prove before improving) ...... Best Brandis


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Maria Luisa Duarte  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:16
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Not be entitled to see the invoice Aug 11, 2006

Hi Bradis!

In Spain you would not be entitled to see the invoice of the proof-reader, but you have every right to see the document submitted to the client.

Hope you have more luck next time. I wish you all the best for the week-end.

Regards
MLD


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 19:16
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
but how do I know Aug 11, 2006

Maria Luisa Duarte wrote:

Hi Bradis!

In Spain you would not be entitled to see the invoice of the proof-reader, but you have every right to see the document submitted to the client.

Hope you have more luck next time. I wish you all the best for the week-end.

Regards
MLD
that the proofer is charging that high price, where the document is still multiply cross-checked and shipped. This is one of us.Best Brandis


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Thomas Dihrberg  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:16
Member
Spanish to German
+ ...
Lawyer Aug 11, 2006

Hi Brandis,

the best to do in this case would be a nice letter from your lawyer.
Not to start a large trial but just to intimidate a little bit, that the agency sees that you are going serious.
If nothing helps you, maybe we should create a world-wide black list.
Good luck
Tom

[Editado a las 2006-08-11 16:54]


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 19:16
German
+ ...
SCNR Aug 11, 2006

Brandis wrote:

Hi!
some time back I had delivered a translation and the agency said the quality was not good

Who did the translation and in which language combination?
What I mean is, did you outsource it or do it yourself?

edit:
P.S.:
No, I don't think you can see the invoice.
Yes, I do think they should provide the final document for your review, otherwise you can refuse to deduct the 50% from your price.

[Edited at 2006-08-11 19:40]


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Nizamettin Yigit  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:16
Dutch to Turkish
+ ...
Who and what Aug 11, 2006

Hi

I gues answers to the question who and what may not be placed here.

But I share the idea of translator should be able to get the proofread document or final document. I think accepting and rejecting is to be done first by translator after proofreading.

Am I wrong?

Nizam


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 19:16
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
you are very right... Aug 11, 2006

Nizamettin Yigit wrote:

Hi

I gues answers to the question who and what may not be placed here.

But I share the idea of translator should be able to get the proofread document or final document. I think accepting and rejecting is to be done first by translator after proofreading.

Am I wrong?

Nizam
but this is an agency from your country and the combination is EN-DE that is no secret. Best Brandis


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 19:16
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
infact they did Aug 11, 2006

tectranslate wrote:

Brandis wrote:

Hi!
some time back I had delivered a translation and the agency said the quality was not good

Who did the translation and in which language combination?
What I mean is, did you outsource it or do it yourself?

edit:
P.S.:
No, I don't think you can see the invoice.
Yes, I do think they should provide the final document for your review, otherwise you can refuse to deduct the 50% from your price.

[Edited at 2006-08-11 19:40]
but the quality is lot poorer than they claim mine to be. What now. Best Brandis


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Vidmantas Stilius  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:16
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
XXX Aug 11, 2006

Dear Brandis

It seems it's all about payment, not quality.
Most of us have faced a situation like this.
For a few years now, I have worked for an agency: the same language pairs, the same fields of expertise.
They are bad payers (they do not think so)... Payments are two or three months late. Anyway, the amounts are not the matter of life or death.

BUT: whenever I start pressing them for payment, all of sudden they say: your translation of this and that was SO bad that we suspect you had outsourced it to someone (which I had not)... our editors had to work hard to make your translation usable... the clientwas not willing to accept our invoice, but we worked so HARD, etc. etc.

OK, I say (but think @$$#@@ you).Let's consider my super poor translation charity... I need NO payment. Just send me the client's revision (I'm always striving for perfection)...

The outcome: they ALWAYS pay. They NEVER send me the client's revision (even after they have paid, I send them weekly reminder about the client's copy -- to no avail).

Just be insistent.

Vidmantas


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Refugio
Local time: 11:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
Why? Aug 12, 2006

Vidmantas Stilius wrote:

...
They are bad payers (they do not think so)... Payments are two or three months late. Anyway, the amounts are not the matter of life or death.

BUT: whenever I start pressing them for payment, all of sudden they say: your translation of this and that was SO bad that we suspect you had outsourced it to someone (which I had not)... our editors had to work hard to make your translation usable... the clientwas not willing to accept our invoice, but we worked so HARD, etc. etc.

OK, I say (but think @$$#@@ you).Let's consider my super poor translation charity... I need NO payment. Just send me the client's revision (I'm always striving for perfection)...

The outcome: they ALWAYS pay. They NEVER send me the client's revision (even after they have paid, I send them weekly reminder about the client's copy -- to no avail).

Vidmantas


Why are you still working for this agency? By now you have trained them to treat you badly. The aggravation and wait are not worth it.


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xxxXX789  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:16
English to Dutch
+ ...
Debt collection agency Aug 12, 2006

No proof of invoice? -> Debt collection agency.
No proof of revisions made? -> Debt collection agency.
Revisions based on subjective opinions (style) instead of objective and factual linguistic arguments? -> Warning -> Debt collection agency.

It's really very simple.



[Edited at 2006-08-12 06:57]


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 19:16
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thank you Aug 12, 2006

Hi! due to technical reasons it is not always possible to send a debt collection agency around the world. Do you know such an agency that is good for your country, or are you a representative of such a company and can undertake such issues for your country, I am sure there will be quite a few interested members deriving of such help. I guess that makes a community a real community. This non-wanting-to-pay symptom keeps coming back and the agencies do not support through adequate proof. Best regards, Brandis

[Edited at 2006-08-12 10:11]


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 14:16
English to French
+ ...
Sorry to read about your misadventure Aug 13, 2006

Hi Brandis,

I'll try to be short and sweet (for once)...

I would have all clients sign a terms and conditions document in which you state that you reserve the right to correct your own errors and, most importantly, that the client may proof your work at their own expense ONLY. Proofing is ALWAYS the client's responsibility.

If all clients and agencies would deduct the cost of proofing from the translator's invoice, trust me, we wouldn't be so many on ProZ. In fact, the only people to whom it would still be worth it to be a freelancer are people in developing countries who can still pay rent and expenses with that kind of money.

This way of dealing with things is simply a no-no.

My only advice is to set up your terms and conditions, have all clients sign them and apply those terms. Make sure all you can think of is included. In the long term, it will help you to avoid many aggressive situations like this one.

Good luck!

P.S.: If the cut goes out of your pocket (in other words, if you are the one responsible for the proofing), then you should be entitled to see the invoice. If you are paying, then it is YOUR business how much you will pay. Let's say you charge $1000 for the translation and then the client says the job is not good enough and they have the job proofed. What if the proofer charges $1200 to proof the document? Logically, you would have to PAY the $200 difference back to the client, which would come down to you paying for getting free experience. Doesn't make any sense...

[Edited at 2006-08-13 05:13]


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