Mobile menu

Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
On the modesty of cheated translators or: Post on the ProZ BB, dammit!
Thread poster: sylvie malich

sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 18:05
German to English
Aug 21, 2006

Dear Colleagues,

In 2005 I posted my experience with a non-payer on the ProZ BB. Over the weekend I received yet another private email from a colleague describing her bad experience. She still hasn't gotten paid and asked if I ever got my payment.

The last time I got an email of this type I asked, no implored, the collegue to please post his experience on the BB as a warning to other translators.

He didn't.
Which could have spared this colleague some trouble... Besides, with 3 bad reports this non-payer would likely be banned by ProZ from posting jobs on the site. Unfortunately, as it stands, I am the only person who has ever posted a report good or bad. I ask myself how many others haven't gotten paid.

Hello? People! Come on. Post your bad experiences, it's for your own good. What is there to be afraid of?


sylvie


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:05
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
It has nothing to do with modesty Aug 21, 2006

Hi Sylvie,

Not giving out 1's left, right and centre has nothing to do with modesty! It is a disadvantage to do that when you are looking for new business. It scares all the agencies away! If they see that you regularly give out 1's, they will not take the risk of contacting you for a job, even if they have no reason, themselves, to earn a 1.

Anyhow, I seemed to get more enquiries after I focused on the good ones and gave out a bunch of 5's.

I have no intention of placing myself at any disadvantage caused by those who are only worth a 1. If they have not even paid me, why should they, in addition, have the power, collectively at least, to have an adverse effect on my business? Is the individual translator to be accorded no advantages at all, and the crooks all the advantages?

Astrid


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Steven Sidore  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:05
Member (2003)
German to English
Good point, but... Aug 21, 2006

Moin Sylvie! You make a good point, particularly in this case where it sounds like they're out and out scoundrels.

I can understand the general trend to hesitate to make entries, though. Barring an exceptionally bad experience--and I've had a couple--I personally hold off on making an entry until I've worked with a company at least twice, and usually three times. I think the bigger sample range helps me make a better judgement, especially since you can't change the entries at will to reflect changes in the relationship (better or worse) the way you could a few years ago here.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Fred Lessing
English to Portuguese
I would, but... Aug 21, 2006

I would gladly post my bad experiences, but unfortunately, and unlike say 10 years ago, basically all of my bad experiences are with direct customers, not agencies. The only warning I could give anyone is, don't work for direct customers, namely companies, in Portugal

Fred


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Teresa Bento  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 17:05
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Nothing, I guess! Aug 21, 2006

You're absolutely right. If people don't disclose their bad experiences and denounce the companies who do not follow work agreements/ contracts, this sort of sad stories will keep on happening to people who just want to work honestly and get paid.

It's far more worse to get cheated and hide the fact, than to share a few unfortunate stories.

Don't allow it, for the sake of all of us!


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Stephanie Wloch  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:05
Member (2003)
Dutch to German
Guesswork on scaring agencies Aug 21, 2006

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:
It scares all the agencies away!

Really? This is not logical, as they are lots of honest agencies/outsourcers working for other agencies. If they learn that the others ones are cowboy agencies and you give them a 1, what will they think?
a. Astrid is straight
b. Astrid is dangerous

I know of a Dutch colleague withdrawing a low LWA because she finally got the money. She could at least have written "first no reaction but finally paid".I have told her that. But she did not come back to the BB. So I am disappointed because I had the impression that she felt a kind of solidarity with colleagues which had similar negative experiences.

Regards Steffi


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Teresa Bento  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 17:05
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Ooh, I feel your pain Aug 21, 2006

Fred Lessing wrote:

I would gladly post my bad experiences, but unfortunately, and unlike say 10 years ago, basically all of my bad experiences are with direct customers, not agencies. The only warning I could give anyone is, don't work for direct customers, namely companies, in Portugal

Fred


Ditto! I'd rather spend my time working freelance for foreign countries. It's a jungle out there... in here...!


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:05
Italian to English
+ ...
It depends on the agency's existing BB rating Aug 21, 2006

Fortunately, I've only worked with two agencies that deserved a 1. One of them I did in fact rate as 1, while the other already has such a bad BB record that it didn't seem worthwhile adding my voice to the chorus.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Partial member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Sorry, but I can't believe.... Aug 21, 2006

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:

Not giving out 1's left, right and centre has nothing to do with modesty! It is a disadvantage to do that when you are looking for new business. It scares all the agencies away! If they see that you regularly give out 1's, they will not take the risk of contacting you for a job, even if they have no reason, themselves, to earn a 1.

Astrid


... that an agency would take the trouble to look through the whole BB in order to see whether you have made entries (good or bad ones)! And, even if they would, if they are correct, why should they fear something? And we want anyway to work only for correct agencies, don't we?

I fortunately never had bad experiences, but if it happened, I would not hesitate to post it on the BB. Otherwise, what would it be good for?


Direct link Reply with quote
 
xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
Making BB entries should not damage our business Aug 21, 2006

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:

Not giving out 1's left, right and centre has nothing to do with modesty! It is a disadvantage to do that when you are looking for new business. It scares all the agencies away! If they see that you regularly give out 1's, they will not take the risk of contacting you for a job, even if they have no reason, themselves, to earn a 1.


Astrid,

But if you think the low LWAs you entered for some outsourcers are bad for your business, you have the option not to display them on your profile page. It may also be a good idea to give a succinct explanation of the reason(s) why you don’t want to work for a certain outsourcer anymore, especially in case that a potential client comes across your LWAs while checking the Blue Board (which, I think, is rather unlikely).

On the other side, if we all reported our bad experiences with some outsourcers (without necessarily displaying them on our profile pages), the risk of working again with bad agencies would be lower for each of us (and thus, we would naturally enter a higher number of positive LWAs and respectively a lower number of negative LWAs).

[Edited at 2006-08-21 12:12]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Natalya Zelikova  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 19:05
Member (2003)
English to Russian
+ ...
... Aug 21, 2006

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:

It scares all the agencies away! If they see that you regularly give out 1's, they will not take the risk of contacting you for a job...

Astrid


I don't think this is true.
On the one hand I feel strange seeing a translator's Profile's BB tab with only 1's - looks like some use BB as a revenge tool only.
On the other hand - I don't think one should be silent if the agency don't pay.
Just don't forget to evaluate those who are good too - and you BB tab won't be too scary for agencies


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:05
Flemish to English
+ ...
Grain of salt Aug 21, 2006

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:

Hi Sylvie,

Not giving out 1's left, right and centre has nothing to do with modesty! It is a disadvantage to do that when you are looking for new business. It scares all the agencies away! If they see that you regularly give out 1's, they will not take the risk of contacting you for a job, even if they have no reason, themselves, to earn a 1.

Astrid


It scares the bad payers away, but who needs them?
Those who are looking for translators and intend to pay them on time, why should they refrain from contacting the translator who gave a 1?
Besides, if the marks given on the BB don't reflect reality, how realiable is the BB? Many base their willingness to work for an agency upon the quotes of the BB. But if it has to be taken with a big grain of salt (:.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Natalia Potashnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Perhaps I am wrong, Aug 21, 2006

but I do not like making bad entries on the BB. So far I have not had the clients who never paid, only a few who paid after several reminders. One client did not respond to my emails until I threatened him with making a bad posting about his company on the BB. This worked and he paid the same day. He probably was not a bad guy after all, simply a little disorganized. What king of posting should I have made in this case? I only did one job for him and perhaps the situation was not typical. I'd rather make entries after several jobs for the same customer when I am sure I know them well.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Niina Lahokoski  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Give both 5's and 1's Aug 21, 2006

I agree with Williamson. If you give 5's to good clients and 1's to bad ones, and in both cases explain your reasons, you shouldn't have to worry about scaring potential clients off.

Natalia: perhaps I'm just cynical, but IMO a client who ignores all reminders and only pays after you "threat" to post on BB is not just "a little disorganized" but a chronical late (or non-) payer. I mean, one or two reminders should be enough!

I once did a small project (minimum charge) for a new client and had to remind him about the payment two or three times. In the end the client paid me double the amount (I didn't even ask him to do that) and apologised, so that time I was willing to "forgive and forget".


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 19:05
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Do not threat with the BB Aug 22, 2006

Natalia Potashnik wrote:

One client did not respond to my emails until I threatened him with making a bad posting about his company on the BB.



I believe it's against the rules to use the BB as a weapon against slow payers. You just make an entry or you don't, as a warning to fellow translators, but not as a punishment to your customer.

This thread has convinced me to give some 5s to old clients. There are so many good agencies that are not covered by the BB. The name Blue Board suggests, that it's something negative. Perhaps the name should be changed.

Regards
Heinrich


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

On the modesty of cheated translators or: Post on the ProZ BB, dammit!

Advanced search


Translation news





CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use SDL Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

More info »
TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »



All of ProZ.com
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs