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Shouldn't we ask a surplus for the use of Trados ?
Thread poster: Williamson

Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:01
Flemish to English
+ ...
Apr 10, 2008

Instead of giving "our best rate" for the use of Trados, should we ask for a "surplus"? There is the cost of buying the tool, learning how to use it (and attending trainings). By using it, you offer an extra service and AFAIK in the professional world extra services are paid.

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:01
English to German
+ ...
Why not? Apr 10, 2008

Hi Williamson,
I don't see what should stop you from doing so.

Best regards,
Ralf


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MariusJacobsen  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 21:01
English to Norwegian
+ ...
To charge or not to charge Apr 10, 2008

I’ve thought about this as well. On the one hand, these tools require a significant investment of time and money. However, Trados is the industry standard. I have a very few clients who do not require this tool. Trados is to the translation industry, what the standard programming software (whatever it may be) is to a programmer; it’s expected of us I guess.

Nevertheless, I find it perfectly OK to charge extra if the client requires installation of another type of software, online database, etc.

But hey, that’s just my opinion


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 22:01
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
And you lose your translation Apr 10, 2008

The customer will never pay you again for the same sentence.
The same applies to all CAT-tools.
At least we should not charge less from "Trados-customers" than from those who require only the translation and pay for every word the full price.

Cheers
Heinrich

[Bearbeitet am 2008-04-10 10:26]


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Damian Harrison
Germany
Local time: 21:01
German to English
Hhhhmmm... Apr 10, 2008

But why stop there? By the same logic you could charge 'extra' for using computers or even introduce a Paper & Pen Surcharge...

I don´t agree with the notion that you are offering an "extra service" by using TRADOS; you are simply increasing your productivity and making yourself more competitive than those colleagues unable or unwilling to make this capital investment.
Of course, you could always introduce a clause in your POs whereby you retain the rights to the TM - I presume there is quite a market for glossaries and TMs.

[Edited at 2008-04-10 09:57]


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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:01
German to English
Paid extra services? Apr 10, 2008

Williamson wrote: By using it, you offer an extra service and AFAIK in the professional world extra services are paid.


So your lawyer charges you extra to prepare a statement of claim electronically, rather than by hand? Or your accountant charges extra to prepare your annual accounts using professional software, rather than on the back of an envelope?

"Extra services" in our business means e.g. preparation of a glossary, delivery of a TM together with the translation, or proofing the typeset documents.


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 21:01
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
another case for a surcharge Apr 10, 2008

Instead of giving "our best rate" for the use of Trados, should we ask for a "surplus"?


I was planning to charge an extra for every occurrence of a letter "č". I had all the good reasons for it: the darn letter gets bastardized to "é", if the agency got careless and used Latin-1 instead of UTF-8.

But ... er ... I met with a certain level of misunderstanding. So I dropped the idea - too good for this prosaic world.

Regards

Vito

[Edited at 2008-04-10 10:20]


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Wolfgang Jörissen  Identity Verified
Belize
Member
Dutch to German
+ ...
Effective use of CAT tools Apr 10, 2008

I get your point. For example working on a 45% fuzzy match is usually no fun and it even sometimes requires more time than you would need for retyping the whole sentence. Not to mention all the tiny, but time consuming problems that pop up in the forum permanently.

But still: didn't they teach you at those trainings how to use that piece of software effectively? How to make adequate settings for your type of work, so you do not even feel you are delivering an extra service? Or if the Trados approach does not suit you, have you tried the competition?

Since you work into Dutch, you might remember the transition from WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS to MS Word for Windows some 10-12 years ago. WordPerfect used to be the market leader in the Netherlands (and probably in Belgium, too) and it was loved by lots of translators and clients alike, before MS started a pretty agressive marketing campaign that actually did it. Back in that time, I remember the same kind of discussion. Right now, nobody talks about it anymore.

[Edited at 2008-04-10 11:20]


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Kaiya J. Diannen  Identity Verified
Australia
Member (2008)
German to English
Fine in theory / questionable in practice Apr 10, 2008

Sounds good... just won't work in most cases.

I vehemently defend my inacceptance of discounts for most fuzzy matches (I agree with the person that said a low match can be even more work than a fresh translation!) and try not to accept discounts at all whenever possible, but in the end, it comes down to a personal business decision.

Will you keep your clients, and which ones can you afford/do you care to lose if they don't accept your terms?

Anyway, you don't have to tell them it's a "Trados surcharge".

When 2008 was coming around the bend and I realized I hadn't gotten a "raise" in several years, I decided to increase prices all around. I knew that some of my clients wouldn't want to pay, but that's a decision I was prepared to make in return for keeping clients who knew the value of my work and would compensate me accordingly.


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 21:01
Member (2004)
English to Polish
But it's easy... Apr 10, 2008

Wolfgang Jörissen wrote:

For example working on a 45% fuzzy match is usually no fun and it even sometimes requires more time than you would need for retyping the whole sentence.


There is an easy solution: set the minimum match value at 50% (or higher), then you will not see those ugly forty-fives and you can retype them as you want...


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:01
Flemish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Luminuous ideas. Apr 10, 2008

MariusJacobsen wrote:
Trados is to the translation industry, what the standard programming software (whatever it may be) is to a programmer; it’s expected of us I guess.

Nevertheless, I find it perfectly OK to charge extra if the client requires installation of another type of software, online database, etc.

But hey, that’s just my opinion


Without a word-processor, no translation. Before CATs were there, I used MsAccess to make terminology databases. I cut and pasted words from Access into Word, but gave no discounts whatsoever for the use of Office 97.

It is expected of us. Ok. Fine, let the agencies provide it. No other producer of CAT's ever got that luminious idea of discounts.

I wonder if the same is applicable to interpreting. If an interpreter repeats the same words ten times, (s)he should give a discount....


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xxxNMR
France
Local time: 21:01
French to Dutch
+ ...
This is not the same thing Apr 10, 2008

Williamson wrote:
I wonder if the same is applicable to interpreting. If an interpreter repeats the same words ten times, (s)he should give a discount....

An interpreter doesn't have less work if the same sentence is repeated, but a translator wins time if the same segment is automatically popping up. And most clients know that.

[As for Word Perfect (does it still exist?), I heard another story. Word 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 2.0c were sold all over the world, but in those days WP had a very agressive market position in the Netherlands (often a "test market" for the rest of the world: you know if it works in the Netherlands there is a chance it will work elsewhere, ... as it is also the case for lots of food products). At the same time lots of Dutch people were looking for their roots and had certain well-integrated genealogy program (I forgot the name), so WP stayed for a while, especially because it was not very compatible with Word and people liked looking their "underwater screen"]


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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:01
German to English
Producers of CATs and discounts Apr 10, 2008

Without a word-processor, no translation. Before CATs were there, I used MsAccess to make terminology databases. I cut and pasted words from Access into Word, but gave no discounts whatsoever for the use of Office 97.


CAT tools were there before MS Access.

No other producer of CAT's ever got that luminious idea of discounts.


So which producer of CATs had the "idea of discounts"?

And - I really have to ask this one - what does "luminious" mean?

I wonder if the same is applicable to interpreting. If an interpreter repeats the same words ten times, (s)he should give a discount....


I've often wondered about this one. TM tool match discounts apply at the level of segments (or "translation units"), not of individual words.


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Luca Ruella  Identity Verified
United States
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
Fuzzy Apr 10, 2008



I get your point. For example working on a 45% fuzzy match is usually no fun and it even sometimes requires more time than you would need for retyping the whole sentence.


Working on 45% fuzzy matches is out of the industry standard.

Any segment below 75%, is just NOT a fuzzy match.

This said, asking for extra money just because you use trados will cause you to loose the job and the customer, it's nonsense.


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 16:01
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
An independent translator must have the tools for his trade Apr 10, 2008

Williamson wrote:
It is expected of us. Ok. Fine, let the agencies provide it.


A self-employed person, which is a business (micro business, but still a business) is defined by the fact that he/she owns the tools of his trade and knows how to use them.
An employee gets a chair, a desk, dictionaries, computer and other equipment by the employer.
A freelancer, just like any other professional or artisan must buy his own equipment to ply his trade.
When you go to the butcher you are not charged extra because the meat comes out of a fridge, neither you provide them with a fridge, yet you expect them to have an efficient fridge.


bye
Gianfranco


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