| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | What is the next best thing to Trados? Thread poster: Rebecca Lyne
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Jerzy Czopik 
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| Misinterpreting facts is not correct | Jul 20, 2008 |
Williamson wrote: 1. There are synergies between Proz.com and Sdlx. Since when does one have to be Sdlx-certified to be able to translate? Don't know Polish, but have SdlxTrados and will translate. My customer will be happy with my results  . ...
Since when SDL Trados Certification is supposed to tell someone anything about ones translating skills?
Does a driving license also say you are able to build a car?
So please do not turn black to be white.
| | | | | can't believe my ears | Jul 20, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
So, why is it the translator who is required to learn to use buggy software, pay for it, and put in extra work?
it means offering added value to the client, for which you charge. Translating is a business and you have to invest in your tools. I don't find Trados that buggy, if you know how to use it properly. It seems to me that some of us are still stuck in the past. Translating does not mean being an 'artist' anymore, it's not just a 'matter of language command and style, rather than computer formats and CAT tools'. This is utter nonsense. The client has every right to ask for a specific tool; if you don't like it or don't want to pay for it, jut decline the job. Translating has evolved immensely in the last few years and if you are happy with your luddite approach, then don't complain when clients go somewhere else.
P.S. by 'you' I mean 'people' not Viktoria...
[Edited at 2008-07-20 10:39]
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To get back to the original question, Rebecca, I don't think you should equate "best" with successful.
I'm with Natalie and Claudia on this: I would be very surprised if Metatexis weren’t the most appropriate solution for you. It happens to be the best kept secret in the translation business largely down to the fact that Hermann, the CAT tool creator, does not advertise. He’s also a translator and you’ll find his profile on Proz. Furthermore, the software is user-friendly and ... See more To get back to the original question, Rebecca, I don't think you should equate "best" with successful.
I'm with Natalie and Claudia on this: I would be very surprised if Metatexis weren’t the most appropriate solution for you. It happens to be the best kept secret in the translation business largely down to the fact that Hermann, the CAT tool creator, does not advertise. He’s also a translator and you’ll find his profile on Proz. Furthermore, the software is user-friendly and bug-free so no queries/complaints to Proz.
Just to reinforce Natalie’s comments: Metatexis offers first-class, almost real-time customer service (in the highly unlikely event that you ever need it) directly from Hermann.
And best of all the lite version is free, though out of fairness, once you have successfully tried it out, I really think you should stump up the 100 Euro or so for the pro version. You’ll recoup the cost in no time at all. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Metatexis and Trados | Jul 20, 2008 |
Hi Rebecca,
I am using both Trados and Metatexis.
I was there when the Trados people launched their product it must now be more than a decade ago in Stuttgart.
When they introduced Trados I couldn't help loughing because they didn't know how to explain it properly to prospective customers....
I will never forget the traumatic experience after having been pushed into buying by a colleague of mine: =) (Thanks Flo, if you happen to read this thre... See more Hi Rebecca,
I am using both Trados and Metatexis.
I was there when the Trados people launched their product it must now be more than a decade ago in Stuttgart.
When they introduced Trados I couldn't help loughing because they didn't know how to explain it properly to prospective customers....
I will never forget the traumatic experience after having been pushed into buying by a colleague of mine: =) (Thanks Flo, if you happen to read this thread one day).
You had to print out a 300-page document provided on CD. Blimey, even back then the Trados people did know how to save money on the translator's expense.
Let's say I haven't regretted having bought that tool because it literally paid for itself in no time even though it was expensive.
What convinces me to use and upgrade a product is the software manufacturer's customer service and HIS ATTITUDE. (I hate money-grabbers...).
OK, we all have to make a living, but I am against BIG fish eating small fish. For this very reason, I support somebody like Hermann Burns (Software producer of Metatexis) because he is unbelievably patient when it comes to answering the same (old boring) questions over and over again.
I am still learning the ropes of Metatexis, but am getting better daily.
It's no small comfort to know that all future upgrades will be free, so I don't have to worry about that part either...
Martin
PS. Big fishes have to live, too, I understand that .... ▲ Collapse
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| At the risk of nitpicking... | Jul 20, 2008 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
The client has every right to ask for a specific tool
I strongly disagree with that one. The client has a right to demand specific RESULTS. If these results can only be obtained with a specific tool, then so be it.
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Translating is a business and you have to invest in your tools. I don't find Trados that buggy, if you know how to use it properly.
On the contrary, there are numerous bugs and shortcomings that are still part of the product, which is one reason why it's more than slightly insane not to simulate a "round trip" of Word documents in TagEditor before attempting the actual translation. But you are right that many of the problems are brought on by pure ignorance, and investing in tools - not just CAT tools - is a critical part of success in this business. Nearly any CAT tool properly used will lead to a recovery of costs fairly quickly. I personally don't think Trados is the best value for the money, but excellent value can still be had for investing in that tool.
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
It seems to me that some of us are still stuck in the past. Translating does not mean being an 'artist' anymore, it's not just a 'matter of language command and style, rather than computer formats and CAT tools'. This is utter nonsense.
Amen. Realize too that by dealing effectively with a wide variety of formats you can also lower a customer's production costs and perhaps justify premium rates Or you can simply deal more effectively with certain formats. I for one wouldn't touch a PowerPoint job without a decent CAT tool, even if I do end up doing the final layout adjustments manually.
| | | | | Did someone say added value? | Jul 20, 2008 |
Oh please! Don't tell me that accepting to use the client's favorite CAT tool is added value. It doesn't in any case prove that your translation will be of high quality, as mentioned by several colleagues. Also, if you can give me one real world example of an agency paying you more because you did use their CAT tool, I'd really like to hear it. In the meantime, I will not change my mind about this: forcing translators to use CAT tools is viewed as an obligation by most agencies, and not as an ad... See more Oh please! Don't tell me that accepting to use the client's favorite CAT tool is added value. It doesn't in any case prove that your translation will be of high quality, as mentioned by several colleagues. Also, if you can give me one real world example of an agency paying you more because you did use their CAT tool, I'd really like to hear it. In the meantime, I will not change my mind about this: forcing translators to use CAT tools is viewed as an obligation by most agencies, and not as an added value.
The day I manage to be paid better when using Trados than when not using it, I will be one happy freelancer. Meanwhile, I have a list of added values that I use that work much better than the argument that I use Trados. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 10:41
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER | | Thanks for the witty post, Natalie! | Jul 20, 2008 |
Thanks, Natalie - this made me laugh out loud!
I just wanted to add that what bothers me most is not that the CAT tool is buggy, that the client wants me to use it, etc., but rather the reason why the client wants me to use it. If it was because they want to be able to extract a TM from my work, fine - but they would have to recognize that the benefit of that goes to them, not to me. If it is because they can only use Trados for the specific job we are working on, fine. But i... See more Thanks, Natalie - this made me laugh out loud!
I just wanted to add that what bothers me most is not that the CAT tool is buggy, that the client wants me to use it, etc., but rather the reason why the client wants me to use it. If it was because they want to be able to extract a TM from my work, fine - but they would have to recognize that the benefit of that goes to them, not to me. If it is because they can only use Trados for the specific job we are working on, fine. But if you take away all the jobs requiring a specific CAT tool in order to increase an agency's markup - what's left? I think Trados would only be required sporadically, not every single day as is the current situation.
What bugs me is that at least 80% of the time, it is only to get rebates on our work that clients require the use of a CAT tool. For me to have to invest time and money so they can achieve that makes absolutely no sense. Never mind whether we are artists or CAT tool operators...
Ask a gardener if he would accept to be told by his client to kneel instead of bending while he weeds the client's garden - he will most likely tell you that it's a stupid question. It comes down to this: can I provide an accurate, high quality translation, by whatever means I have at my disposal? I can. So, whether I use a CAT tool or which CAT tool I use is totally irrelevant.
In any case, I am only interested in investing time and money if there's something in it for me. As it pertains to CAT tools, what I am looking for is something that will further my work, not hinder it or serve someone else's business interests - I am also running a business, and buying a CAT tool is a business decision. Let me be the judge of that myself. I don't think it is up to clients to decide what tool I should be happy with...
[Edited at 2008-07-20 20:09] ▲ Collapse
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NecdetB
Türkiye
Local time: 11:41
German to Turkish
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| Great, Viktoria! | Jul 20, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
Also, if the main point of using a CAT tool is to help the translator, I really wonder why the agencies are requiring it... It's like forcing me to take vitamins when I say I'm fine without them.
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
The day I manage to be paid better when using Trados than when not using it, I will be one happy freelancer.
From your thoughts I derive strength and strategy about this industry.
Thank you for your mind-opening posts!
A subscriber of your posts.
| | | | | Thanks, Necdet | Jul 20, 2008 |
Thanks for your kind words, Necdet!
However, read all posts, not just mine - Natalie just made a smart point there.
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Thanks to everyone!
Your comments have been very helpful.
I think I will be contacting Herman.
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 10:41
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | That's the way it is... | Jul 20, 2008 |
What bugs me is that at least 80% of the time, it is only to get rebates on our work that clients require the use of a CAT tool. For me to have to invest time and money so they can achieve that makes absolutely no sense. Never mind whether we are artists or CAT tool operators...
Unfortunately, it's the way it has always been. Those who are long enough in the business might remember that those same questions were asked before: "Why do I need to buy a computer, if I am perfectly capable of doing it with my typewriter? They want it on a diskette, only because they want it to use parts of my translation over and over! I will pay a lot of money just so they can take advantage of me!"
Mind you, I am not saying that you are wrong, on the contrary... It's just that how progress always looks like - workers in a clothes factory have to know much more about machinery than an old-fashioned tailor, yet they get paid much less. At least they don't have to buy their own machines and upgrade them each year
[Edited at 2008-07-20 20:00]
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Jabberwock wrote:
rkers in a clothes factory have to know much more about machinery than an old-fashioned tailor, yet they get paid much less.[/quote]
That may be so, but workers in a factory depend on their employers to make a living - freelancers don't.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Viktoria Gimbe wrote: Jabberwock wrote:
rkers in a clothes factory have to know much more about machinery than an old-fashioned tailor, yet they get paid much less.
That may be so, but workers in a factory depend on their employers to make a living - freelancers don't. [/quote]
But where then do you take your money from? From the hand in your mouth? I doubt very much. Ok, we do not depend on "employers", but on "customers". And there is not that big difference.
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Some people may think that they depend on their clients, but in my mind, it is the clients who depend on me. It is precisely when I took conscience of that that the contracts - and the money - started flowing in.
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