| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Would you sign this contract??? Thread poster: Minna Wood MITI (Purring CAT Ltd.) (X)
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| I would ask the agency... | Aug 3, 2008 |
I would ask them if they have any such insurance. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. The way their clauses are put together, it all really sounds like a threat. Get the insurance we are not willing to pay for - otherwise, we just might sue you for translation whose quality we will challenge, at our absolute discretion no less.
Either way, if the agency's client has a problem with the translation, it is with the agency that they should take it up, and the agency shou... See more I would ask them if they have any such insurance. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. The way their clauses are put together, it all really sounds like a threat. Get the insurance we are not willing to pay for - otherwise, we just might sue you for translation whose quality we will challenge, at our absolute discretion no less.
Either way, if the agency's client has a problem with the translation, it is with the agency that they should take it up, and the agency should not simply forward the client's complaint to you. After all, it is the agency who sold the finished translation to the client. If they didn't perform the necessary QA steps to make sure the translation is up to the client's expectations (and you certainly can't ensure of this - you are not in direct contact with the end client and so can't be aware of their requirements), you certainly aren't liable - and I think the judge would agree. Also, if it is the end client who caught the mistakes but the agency didn't, then I guess someone is not doing what they are paid for. Either way, it is the agency who sells the finished translation, so they are the ones who are liable.
It always makes me laugh when people mention how their agency client told them their client didn't like the translation. It is up to the agency to make sure the client likes the translation - they are in touch with them, unlike the translator. So, they have no business bothering the translator because of the work they themselves didn't perform.
I don't think indemnity insurance has any use whatsoever, unless you work with direct clients. Just make sure you don't sign any overzealous contracts.
[Edited at 2008-08-03 15:40] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oleg Rudavin 
Ukraine
Local time: 06:06
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
| A couple of aspects | Aug 3, 2008 |
1. Insurance (PII, for translators) - what is it intended to protect us from?
- It is supposed to protect us from damages resulting from our own mistakes, right?
I would never insure my car if I knew that all other drivers are as safe and reliable as myself.
Same with translation: I'm confident about every word in my translations.
On the other hand, there's always the bad luck factor - your mobile suddenly ringing when you are drivng on a busy crossing, or... See more 1. Insurance (PII, for translators) - what is it intended to protect us from?
- It is supposed to protect us from damages resulting from our own mistakes, right?
I would never insure my car if I knew that all other drivers are as safe and reliable as myself.
Same with translation: I'm confident about every word in my translations.
On the other hand, there's always the bad luck factor - your mobile suddenly ringing when you are drivng on a busy crossing, or a typo going unnoticed both by myself and the spell checker...
Here comes the calculation part.
How confident am I about the overall quality of my translation? - Pretty confident. => What are the chances of my making mistakes that can potentially bring material damages? - Very small * (and) What are the chances of typos resulting in material damages? - Very small => Is the PII financially justified in my case **? - No.
* and ** I specialize in technical/engineering areas where documents and texts are (supposed to be) pretty straightforward; if complicated I ask the client for explanation intil I understand it fully. My typo occurrene rate is certainly smaller than that of the source text in many cases prepared by engineers who are not as good with words as the are with machinery
It definitely can be different with sensitive areas, like finance, medicine or legal. Here, the price of errors might be very high, and the source is frequently very ambiguous. I like a story from a colleague of mine who interpreted during negotiations between a local businessman and his IK partner. The parties agreed on all the terms and conditions, and the UK partner asked the lawyer he brought to the talks to draw up the official contract. When it was ready, the UA businessman asked my colleague to translate the 9-page document. As the guy had been interpreting for them, the translation went quite smooth untill he stumbled over a clause which he simply couldn't make out - the words looked familiar but didn't dombine together into any meaningful text.
Luckily, the lawyer was in the room next door (they stayed at the same hotel), so the interpreter went over for help: "Can you please explain the meaning and I'll write it in Russian?"
The lawyer read the paragraph a few times, thought over it for about ten minutes; then he said, "Let's delete it, OK?"
Another aspect we appear to often miss when discussing the liabilities and their distribution between the translator and agency is that translation is only a part (even though the most important one) of the final product to be delivered to the end client.
One example of other components are DTP (with errors often introduced at this stage, especialy when outsourced to another party located in another part of the world and offering great budget savings!). Proofreading/editing is another example, and this is something what the agency should always do. Failure to adhere to the QA procedures is the responsibility that lies entirely on the agency's shoulders.
In real world practice it's often different though. What do you think of the following situation? -
An (ISO-certified) agency (Resource Manager) contact me with an offer for cooperation. We discuss the terms, and I sign the contractor agreement + NDA. Under these documens, I'm forbidden even to mention the name of the agency to anybody, leave alone the materials, texts, etc. Papers signed and sent back, and two hours after that a PM contacts me with a job and instructions for it: QUOTE please make sure the translation is edited by a specialist or at least proofread by a third party before final delivery UNQUOTE...
My conclusions:
- It's the worst translators who need PII's most
- If you live in an underground bunker insurance against lightning might be a waste of money
- Translators can hardly be sued for damages caused by the final product, because essentially, the fault is with the agency's quality control procedures. Probably, their first and primary blunder is with the recruitment process: they failed to select a translator capable to deliver quality translations?
[Edited at 2008-08-03 09:19] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Glad to see that Viktoria and Oleg agree with me | Aug 3, 2008 |
Now I would like to see if anybody --including the French lawyer-- can refute our arguments.
| | | | Minna Wood MITI (Purring CAT Ltd.) (X)
United Kingdom
English to Finnish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you — so many of you — for taking time to respond! I really appreciate it! I had little intentions in singing the contract anyway but — since I always find it really difficult to read and interpret legal texts — I still wanted to see what other translators would do in my situation.
Yes, I have been a member of ITI for a few years now and I do have a copy of their model terms of business so I know approximately what it says (even though I don’t think I've ever read i... See more Thank you — so many of you — for taking time to respond! I really appreciate it! I had little intentions in singing the contract anyway but — since I always find it really difficult to read and interpret legal texts — I still wanted to see what other translators would do in my situation.
Yes, I have been a member of ITI for a few years now and I do have a copy of their model terms of business so I know approximately what it says (even though I don’t think I've ever read it in its entirety - it’s a bit too long and boring for me!! ). If I remember right, it mentions that the translator's liability should be limited to the cost of the job. I used to send a copy of these terms to my clients but I have now stopped doing it for no particular reason. I should start doing it again...
Usually my clients don't send me contracts to sign, or if a new client approaches me with a view of collaborating with me in the future and sends me a copy of their tems, this usually happens before I have agreed to take on any assignments from them so, if there is anything in the contract that sounds iffy, I just won't return it, which means I never get any jobs from them - fine by me - so this issue does not come up that often. This time this new client approached me and I accepted the job (proofreading/updating of spc&pil) as they have a good feedback on BB, and only after that they sent me a contract to sign along with a PO, which I think was a bit cheeky!!! Anyway I pointed out the problematic clauses and said that I will not sign the contract unless they remove/amend them. The PM responded quickly and asked me to ignore the contract and carry out the job anyway! Their priority was to get the work completed!
John, I did not see the point in copying the entire text of the terms in my post as I had no issues with the rest of the contract. And yes, I did read it "as a whole" but I didn't think you needed to be bored with the entire text (there were no references that would have affected your understanding of the above mentioned problematic clauses).
As for insurance, even though I've never heard of any translator being sued because of an error in their translation, I do feel that a PII is not a waste of money (especially when I get it for the ITI member rate). I translate medical texts and feel more confident when I have some sort of insurance cover. Also, I think some agencies are more likely to work with you if you have a PII, which means it generates more work.
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
I'd politely tell them "either drop those clauses or lose my phone number".
Thanks for te laughs, Viktoria!!
Thanks again guys!
Minna
[Edited at 2008-08-03 15:55] ▲ Collapse
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