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Client about to go bankrupt
Thread poster: Christine Liabeuf
Christine Liabeuf  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:27
English to French
+ ...
Jan 25, 2002

I have just heard that one of my clients, who owes me money, is probably about to go bankrupt. I am French, working in France, and the client is German. I have been informed that they are undergoing a \"période d\'observation\" of a few months, at the end of which their fate will be sealed. At the moment, they are insolvent and therefore they cannot pay any supplier, sub-contractor and the like.



I think that if this happened in France, I would have very little chance of ever getting paid for the work I did for them, since the first creditor who gets paid is the State and that there is generally very little money left after that for other creditors (let alone small ones like me).



Does anybody know what happens in that sort of situation in Germany and if I have any way of claiming my money \"officially\" ?



Thanks for your help.
[addsig]


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KNP  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:27
English to German
+ ...
Be fast! Jan 25, 2002

You are in a difficult situation. Before you do anything else, try to speak with the company, with somebody you know there personally. This might help. Do this before you take any legal action and do it now. After the company went bancrupt you have to file your outstanding debts with the insolvency administrator of this company. This is usually done by your attorney. After a usually long period of time you might actually get some money, but this depends on the amount they owe you. First all employees and the banks are payed, followed by the insolvency administrator himself. Then the creditors follow with those having the largest outstandings being payed first. Good luck!

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Alan Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:27
German to English
Not much chance in Germany either! Jan 25, 2002

I have had this happen to me once in the past. It wasn\'t a large sum, but I still didn\'t get a penny of it (or a Pfennig, or a Franc, for that matter. Once the company is declared insolvent and the liquidator? is called in you should, in the course of time, receive an official claims document. You will need to fill this in and return it. Even if you are lucks and get some money from them, it could take very many months, and it may be only a very small portion of what you are actually owed.

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Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:27
Member (2003)
Greek to English
+ ...
Be aware and act! Jan 25, 2002

I\'m not so familiar with the legal procedure in Germany or France, but it would be a good idea to inform the liquidator yourself for your claims. The liquidator rarely goes through \"accounts payable\", since it is difficult to determine each account balance. Find out who the liquidator is (court records are public in case of bankruptcy), contact him asap. Your claims have priority over regular creditors or equity holders. Good luck!
[addsig]


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Hans-Henning Judek  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:27
German to English
+ ...
Not much chance Jan 26, 2002

I am a German lawyer, but do not have so much experience with bankruptcy, but agree with Alan, if they actually go bankrupt, you stand very little chance to get your money.



Agencies are buying and selling translations, which means \"software\" - they have little fixed assets. If they have employees, by law they come first. Therafter in most cases not much is left.



What you call \"période d\'observation\" is probably a \"Vergleichsverfahren\", which preceeds the actual bankruptcy. This means that the company is negotiating on reducing its debts with the creditors. If this is successful, and the company stays afloat, you will get some percentage, if it fails, the company goes bankrupt. In this case you will probably get 2-3% of what they owe you.



I cannot verify it here in Japan, but I do not think that as a freelancer you are in any better position than any other creditor.



Sorry not to be able to give you better news.


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 19:27
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
Konkurs in Deutschland Jan 26, 2002

Hallo,



mamchmal gibt es eine kleine Chance zumindest einen teil des geldes zu bekommen.

Solange die Firma den Konkurs noch nicht angemeldet hat, und noch versucht Ihn zu vermeiden kann man versuchen sich auf einen teilbetrag zu einigen und hoffen, daß die Firma den Betrag dann überweist.



Daneben besteht die Möglichkeit, daß die Firma eigentlich schon länger zahlungsunfähig ist, die Geschäftsführung jedoch den Konkurs nicht angemeldet hat.

Dann können unter Umständen die Geschäftsführer mit Ihrem privaten vermögen haften. Dieses müsste jedoch eingeklagt werden und nach unserer Erfahrung ist die \"Konkursverschleppung\" nur schwer zu beweisen.



Allgemein: Wenig Aussicht auf Erfolg.

Nachdem Banken, Staat und Angestellte aus der Konkursmasse bedient wurden bleibt für Lieferanten meist gar nichts mehr übrig.



Viele Grüße



Hans


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Christine Liabeuf  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:27
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I don't speak German !!!!! Jan 28, 2002

Thank you very much for your reply, but I don\'t speak German, so I can\'t understand a word !!!!! Although the client in question is in Germany, I translate from English/Spanish into French. If you have the time, could you please send your answer again in English, French or Spanish.



Thank you very much and sorry for the trouble.



Quote:


On 2002-01-26 10:53, DSC wrote:

Hallo,



mamchmal gibt es eine kleine Chance zumindest einen teil des geldes zu bekommen.

Solange die Firma den Konkurs noch nicht angemeldet hat, und noch versucht Ihn zu vermeiden kann man versuchen sich auf einen teilbetrag zu einigen und hoffen, daß die Firma den Betrag dann überweist.



Daneben besteht die Möglichkeit, daß die Firma eigentlich schon länger zahlungsunfähig ist, die Geschäftsführung jedoch den Konkurs nicht angemeldet hat.

Dann können unter Umständen die Geschäftsführer mit Ihrem privaten vermögen haften. Dieses müsste jedoch eingeklagt werden und nach unserer Erfahrung ist die \"Konkursverschleppung\" nur schwer zu beweisen.



Allgemein: Wenig Aussicht auf Erfolg.

Nachdem Banken, Staat und Angestellte aus der Konkursmasse bedient wurden bleibt für Lieferanten meist gar nichts mehr übrig.



Viele Grüße



Hans


[addsig]

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Alison Schwitzgebel
France
Local time: 19:27
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Rough translation of DSC's post: Jan 29, 2002

Hello!



sometimes there is a small chance to get some of the money. As long as the company hasn\'t registered as bankrupt and is still trying to avoid you, then you can try to agree on a partial amount and hope that the company then transfers this amount to your bank account.



There is also the possibility that the company hasn\'t been able to pay its bills for a longer period, however that the management has not yet registered the bankruptcy. Then it may be that the managing directors are liable with their personal assets. However you have to sue for this and our experience is that \"dragging out the bankruptcy\" (Konkursverschleppung) is hard to prove.



In general: the chance of success are slim. After the banks, the state, the employees have received their share of the assets, there is often nothing left over for the suppliers



Kind regards



Hans



Hope this rough translation helps!!! Alison


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Christine Liabeuf  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:27
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you very much Jan 29, 2002

Hello Allison,



However \"rough\" your translation was (I can\'t be judge to that I\'m afraid), it has helped me a lot.



Thank you.



Christine


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