| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Company allowed to audit Translators business? Thread poster: Hildegard Klein-Bodenheimer (X)
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Kevin Fulton 
United States
Local time: 03:01
German to English
| Could be Homeland Security-related | Feb 22, 2009 |
Last year one of my clients, a firm based in Mexico, asked me to fill out a questionnaire and sign an agreement with provisions similar to those presented to Hildegard. The questionnaire also had a number of questions related to data security. The rationale given was that since both the client and I did business outside the US, the department of Homeland Security required such information. I was told that since I was a single-shingle operator, ISO requirements were waived on an exceptional basi... See more Last year one of my clients, a firm based in Mexico, asked me to fill out a questionnaire and sign an agreement with provisions similar to those presented to Hildegard. The questionnaire also had a number of questions related to data security. The rationale given was that since both the client and I did business outside the US, the department of Homeland Security required such information. I was told that since I was a single-shingle operator, ISO requirements were waived on an exceptional basis. I asked whether anyone had ever been audited, and my contact said he couldn't imagine who would do this. Vendors with ISO certification did, however, have to present documentation. Since the client was paying such an outrageously good rate I had no qualms about filling out the questionnaire and signing the agreement. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 09:01
English to French
+ ...
| I would refuse this clause | Feb 22, 2009 |
It seems more adapted to industrial processes than to your small business.
And even with industrial processes it looks like a domination. Will the sub-contractor ever carry out an unexpected audit of the main firm's offices?
Do not use Kevin Lossner's words if you refuse though ^^
ScottishWildCat wrote:
and their recurrings topics show first and foremost is that the "translation industry" more than badly needs a few simple, universally accepted and enforceable rules for both agencies and translators so that it appears as a professional part of the global market and not as a lobster cage or as a backwater ruled by the law of the jungle!
I agree with you here. I find the situation a bit scary.
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I have seen similar stuff over the course of my work, but never had anyone try to apply it to me.
Hildegard Klein-Bodenheimer wrote:
My main concern is the very vague phrasing of their rights
"reserves the right to conduct audits of Contractor's facilities, business practices, and any other matters reasonably relating to the performance..."
Which facilities, which business practices, and especially which reasonably related matters?
You are reading it in a way that gives it too wide a scope.
"reasonably relating to the performance" qualifies your "facilities, practices and any other matters".
Those of your facilities and business practices that are not reasonably related to this gig are of no concern to them.
| | | | | ISO Certification not a synonym of translation quality | Feb 23, 2009 |
Birthe Omark wrote:
I am not surprised at all of the clause.
The company you are signing up with is most likely ISO-certified or similar. It is Good Business Practice and, I believe, even a requirement that suppliers must be audited. So, supplier audit is only normal, professional procedure.
Quite a few translation agencies have been awarded and ISO-certification. This is something we should welcome.
Birthe,
I think I know which LSP it is. It was more than two years ago that they offered me a contract with this clause, which I declined to sign. But then they extended their terms of payment and our cooperation ended, as I saw no reason for this company to improve their cash flow at my expense.
But back to the point, I cooperate with several ISO certified translation agencies and:
a) I can't remember if any of them sent me a contract to sign
b) None of them ever asked to audit my computers (which is basically what my business is comprised of)
And finally, ISO certification is not equivalent to the quality of work that the LSP/translation agency does.
For those who understand Polish, here's an example: http://www.proz.com/forum/polish/126527-gówniane_iso_do_kwadratu.html#1044932
Regards
Piotr
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 09:01
French to German
+ ...
| ISO or another certification | Feb 23, 2009 |
Piotr Bienkowski wrote:
Birthe,
I think I know which LSP it is. It was more than two years ago that they offered me a contract with this clause, which I declined to sign. But then they extended their terms of payment and our cooperation ended, as I saw no reason for this company to improve their cash flow at my expense.
Piotr,
as I put it previously, I also think which LSP it is - lengthy agreement with some 20 pages and the like.
And I agree with you. ISO or other certifications just confirm the fact that, say, a translator or a company work according to a given procedure.
In metallurgy as well as in translations, this ensures the traceability of processes and methods - it does not give you any guarantee about the "quality" of the end product.
Laurent K.
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 09:01
English to German
+ ...
| Against forum rule 8 | Feb 23, 2009 |
Birthe Omark wrote:
The company you are signing up with is most likely ISO-certified or similar. It is Good Business Practice and, I believe, even a requirement that suppliers must be audited. So, supplier audit is only normal, professional procedure.
Thanks for making me laugh, Birthe!
Even if it were an ISO-certified company, so what? By and large, I strongly disagree with what you say. I (freelancer) have never been asked by clients (agencies) to sign such a unilateral nonsense. My computer, data and procedures are none of their business. Of course, things look different when talking about two companies. However, this is not the case.
Quite a few translation agencies have been awarded and ISO-certification. This is something we should welcome.
Really? Don't tell me that certification equals quality. I can tell you from 20 years of experience that paper does not always reflect reality.
This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism.
Just in case you are pointing at me, you should perhaps first gather information about people before judging them. Your sentence is nonsense in this context and offending (no, not myself, but I kindly invite you to enjoy my profile, and I am certainly rejecting this allegation for my person).
Your sentence "This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism." is against forum Rule 8, No attacks: Personal attacks on groups or individuals, discussing the personal behavior of other members or inhibiting any person in any way from enjoying the service, is prohibited.
Take it, be proud of it. Work with it. Encourage it.
That makes me laugh too.
| | | | Rod Walters
Japan
Local time: 16:01
Japanese to English
| Scene: The Audit | Feb 23, 2009 |
"Ah, welcome Gentlemen! This way please ... Oh don't touch the cat, it scratches!
This is my typewriter. This is the coaster where I put my tea. Feel free to turn it over if you wish.
Here are my slippers, and this is the rug I put over my knees when it's chilly. Would you care to have a look at some phone bills now?
Mariko! MARIKO! Please don't play "Little Fingers" when the auditors are here!
No, nothing else that I can think of. Will that b... See more "Ah, welcome Gentlemen! This way please ... Oh don't touch the cat, it scratches!
This is my typewriter. This is the coaster where I put my tea. Feel free to turn it over if you wish.
Here are my slippers, and this is the rug I put over my knees when it's chilly. Would you care to have a look at some phone bills now?
Mariko! MARIKO! Please don't play "Little Fingers" when the auditors are here!
No, nothing else that I can think of. Will that be all Gentlemen?" ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nigel Greenwood (X)
Spain
Local time: 09:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Difference between 'business' and 'free-lance'. | Feb 23, 2009 |
From what I understand there is a substantial difference between a free-lance worker and running a small one-man business.
A business is open to all 'audit' controls from their clients as part of the ISO standards, however, a free-lance worker is only under the necessity of justifying that he/she are up-to-date with their governmental responsibilities, i.e. social security and tax payments. He/she should be able to justify those by obtaining the corresponding certificates from the appropr... See more From what I understand there is a substantial difference between a free-lance worker and running a small one-man business.
A business is open to all 'audit' controls from their clients as part of the ISO standards, however, a free-lance worker is only under the necessity of justifying that he/she are up-to-date with their governmental responsibilities, i.e. social security and tax payments. He/she should be able to justify those by obtaining the corresponding certificates from the appropriate government agencies and presenting to whoever their 'client' is and is requesting such justification in compliance with ISO standards.
Are you sure which is your own situation?
Nigel. ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Getting to be a frequent question | Feb 23, 2009 |
Hildegard Klein-Bodenheimer wrote:
Does anyone have experience with a contract like this? Should I ask them to leave this clause out? But I guess the likelihood that they will do that is slim.
They don't have the authority to negotiate the clause. Remember, you work for the small middle man. The clause comes from the big company whom the middle man is working for. He won't get the big contract until he's collected signed clauses from all his service providers. It's practically non-negotiable
When this happened to me a year or two ago, I tried to think up various clever schemes to sign and not really sign. The most promising solution was an amendment, but it's not honest.
See here, is that clause of yours part of an agreement between you and the big company, or between you and the middle man? If it is the middle man, then the amendment trick works like this: A contract can be amended if agreed to by all parties, right? And in this case, the big company is not one of the parties, right? So after you've signed the contract, you can create an amendment to scrap that clause, and have the amendment signed by yourself and the middle man. Whether the middle man informs the big company of the amendment is none of your business. This exercise assumes that the middle man is in cahoots with you, of course.
I'd be interested to know if this trick actually works (I didn't try it).
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Against rule 8 | Feb 23, 2009 |
Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
Your sentence "This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism." is against forum Rule 8...
Did you tell Evert about it?
| | | | | Commitments to quality and professionalism | Feb 23, 2009 |
Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
Your sentence "This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism." is against forum Rule 8, No attacks: Personal attacks on groups or individuals, discussing the personal behavior of other members or inhibiting any person in any way from enjoying the service, is prohibited.
You raise a good point Aniello. I had simply ignored this, because the attempt at English was too hard to follow. I'm not really sure what the intended context is for this very general statement.
As for welcoming the ISO certifications, I can't see why. I have a number of clients that have gone that route, and it offers me no benefit whatsoever, just cookie-cutter requests for new lists of qualifications (which they often already have), copies of diplomas and certifications (which they occasionally have or can verify through public sources in any case) and other nonsense. All this costs time which nobody offers to pay for in this case. I ignore such requests in many cases, and after the third or fourth repetition, I may respond and take the opportunity to update the price list while I am doing so.
My cynicism in this regards derives not from the desire to avoid yet another odious administrative task, but rather some fundamental disagreements with specific provisions in the current EN 15038, which is usually behind the requests. Read the parts about the correction process and think about them, and I think you'll begin to see a few cracks in the cathedral ceiling.
Moreover, I have seen no real change in operational procedures which have resulted in improved quality. One long-term customer of mine advertises EN 15038 compliance - and I like this agency so much that I didn't even grumble about supplying the paperwork requested - but my recent reviews of some work that had passed through the "quality process" revealed that it was deeply flawed and that legal documents with dangerous mistakes were being released regularly. These standards are usually marketing hot air. I experienced the rah-rah DIRFT parade of the 1980's, the re-discovery of the teachings of Deming and Juan before their deaths (I assume the must be dead by now), the elevation of Taguchi to divine status, etc., but what I have observed at every waystation on this pilgrimage is that when it comes to quality, even some six-sigma black belts just don't get it. Most of the time it's just another guy or gal looking for a better marketing angle or a hammer to use on suppliers.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Marks of professionalism | Feb 23, 2009 |
Birthe Omark wrote:
I am not surprised at all of the clause. ... The company you are signing up with is most likely ISO-certified or similar. It is Good Business Practice and, I believe, even a requirement that suppliers must be audited.
Well, yes, but the wording of the clause in question makes it clear that this is not not about normal business auditing. A normal business audit does not consist of surprise visits. Also, for an ISO-related audit to take place, the business in question should be given some documentation on what aspects of the business will be audited -- and for white collar work, the audit is mostly done on paperwork.
Still, ideally it should be possible for such an audit to take place and have no impact on the confidentiality of one's other clients whatsoever. Confidentiality is not something we should leave to chance. All filing cabinets should be lockable and generally locked, and the office space in which we work should also be lockable (and locked when we're not there). If not, well at least the computers we work on should have access passwords and the files on our computers should be encrypted. How many of us really work like this? I'd be interested to know...
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| Personal attacks? | Feb 23, 2009 |
Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism.
Just in case you are pointing at me, you should perhaps first gather information about people before judging them. Your sentence is nonsense in this context and offending (no, not myself, but I kindly invite you to enjoy my profile, and I am certainly rejecting this allegation for my person). Your sentence "This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism." is against forum Rule 8, No attacks: Personal attacks on groups or individuals, discussing the personal behavior of other members or inhibiting any person in any way from enjoying the service, is prohibited.
I don't read any personal attack here, and no group is being mentioned/named, so what's the point?
I would say that this forum (and not this thread alone) has helped many a soul sofar...
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 09:01
English to German
+ ...
| If this is not an attack (or call it offense or whatsoever)... | Feb 23, 2009 |
This forum is the living proof of how all the miseries that come from lack of professionalism an amateurism.
...then tell me how far I can go.
Evert: This forum is comprised of human beings, not of furniture!
As I already said in another thread: We reap what we sow.
| | | | | That ia hardly my problem | Feb 23, 2009 |
What the middle man agrees to with his end client is of no concern to me. After all, I don't even know whether it is true. For all I know, the middle man may even be bluffing.
As already mentioned by me, I was able to amend my NDA as I made it very clear, I don't care for the work at the price of signing such blatantly one-sided agreements.
Regards,
N.Raghavan
Samuel Murray wrote: Hildegard Klein-Bodenheimer wrote:
Does anyone have experience with a contract like this? Should I ask them to leave this clause out? But I guess the likelihood that they will do that is slim. They don't have the authority to negotiate the clause. Remember, you work for the small middle man. The clause comes from the big company whom the middle man is working for. He won't get the big contract until he's collected signed clauses from all his service providers. It's practically non-negotiable
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