Translation - art & business » Business issues »
translator blacklists
Track this topic

Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13] >

User

Thread poster: Dan Brennan

translator blacklists

Dan Brennan

United Kingdom
Local time: 05:45

Member (2006)
Russian to English
+ ...

TOPIC STARTER

you're probably right

Nov 27, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Dan Brennan wrote:
But what about a system where a translator had to submit a translation to a panel of fellow translators for assessment, and based on that they were granted or refused some kind of 'Peer-approved' certification? That, in my book at least, would count for something, as long as the jury was made up of seasoned and respected pros.

But my friend, that exists already with the ATA certification. Controlled exam conditions and an ATA official as the proctor, limited time, controlled resources, identity verification, and evaluation by two seasoned and respected peers, or more peers if the candidate does not agree with a fail mark. (Of course these peers get paid for the job of marking the papers.)

If you meant was some Internet-based test... sorry I don't believe in that option as there is no way to guarantee the identity of the candidate and having unlimited time for the translation makes it more difficult to assess the real capabilities of a candidate to deliver a good translation in a limited time as we have to do every day in our work.

[Edited at 2009-11-27 06:52 GMT]

you're probably right...

Charlie Bavington

United Kingdom
Local time: 05:45
French to English

Just them?

Nov 27, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
But my friend, that exists already with the ATA certification.

No-one else in the entire world offers such a thing?

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL

United Kingdom
Local time: 05:45
English to Italian

Nope!

Nov 27, 2009

Charlie Bavington wrote:

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
But my friend, that exists already with the ATA certification.

No-one else in the entire world offers such a thing?

Look under my name... lol...

ViktoriaG

Canada
Local time: 00:45

Member (2005)
English to French
+ ...

Of course

Nov 27, 2009

Aguas de Marco wrote:

ViktoriaG wrote:

If there were a short two-page guide on picking a translator, would any of you consider distributing it?

No doubt. In a second. Of course, I would first like to read (and agree with) what the guide states.

I would not distribute something I don't believe in myself. I was proposing a more general document that doesn't get into much detail but that stresses the important points that seem to be very widespread among professional translators. It would be something that would be genuinely helpful to prospects all the while being a short read so as not to discourage prospects from reading it.

The idea is to help make client education painless for translators. Many of us don't educate our clients simply because it is too much of an effort. If it were as simple as forwarding a document and telling the client that we strongly recommend reading it, maybe more of us would do it. That doesn't guarantee that all prospects will read it. However, I do read this kind of guide before choosing an attorney, a brickworker or a website designer. I don't think I am the only one, and so I am sure that smart prospects would be interested, too.

Of course, it has no use to create such a document if it is not widely distributed, whence my initial question above.

ViktoriaG

Canada
Local time: 00:45

Member (2005)
English to French
+ ...

Not credible

Nov 27, 2009

Oleg Osipov wrote:

Williamson wrote:
Some agencies do have standards and give quotation marks on types of mistakes (typos, omissions, distortions of meaning, spelling, wrong interpretation of the texts, false friends...)
The translator obtains a statistical average.

Absolutely! This is a professional approach to assess the quality of translations and the guidelines for telling "bad" translators from "good" ones.

I don't think that such statistical averages would be credible. Letting agencies set such statistical averages would be much the same as letting cops judge whether that bro' should have been tased or not... This reeks of conflict of interest.

Not being paid on time or not at all is a fact, not an appreciation. Same for changing deadlines once the work has already begun. Same for reducing pay because the end client wasn't happy. Same for asking for lower rates because of a recession (none of my US clients offered to pay me more because of CAD/USD parity, by the way). These are facts. As for how good a translator is, that can never be more than an appreciation, and appreciations are always subjective.

ViktoriaG

Canada
Local time: 00:45

Member (2005)
English to French
+ ...

Same here

Nov 27, 2009

Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:

I think in nearly 7 years of activity revising dozens of texts I've seen perhaps 3 or 4 where I thought the translator had done an excellent job. Most were mediocre-bad, and a handful were simply appalling.

To me, too, mediocre translations are the rule and good ones are the exception. I however need to make a point here about what a mediocre translation really is.

I am almost always sorry to have to tell the client that the translation I reviewed was mediocre, because most of those translators are actually pretty good ones, and if it weren't for their lack of professionalism, it would be my pleasure to work with them. I once referred a client of mine to an excellent translator, and I don't do that often, for obvious reasons. A few weeks later, the client said they honestly didn't understand why I referred them to that translator. I didn't know what to say--but I could tell the translator didn't take the time to do a good job, probably because he was juggling several jobs concurrently.

So, a mediocre translation is not always the work of a mediocre translator. If people were overall more professional, all of a sudden, excellent translators would make up the bulk of the community--which is not the case at the moment, in my opinion.

In short, there are heaps of mediocre translations in my opinion, too. As far as I'm concerned, I daresay that is not even an opinion but a fact. Can we just get over it now?

Tomás Cano Binder, CT

Spain
Local time: 06:45

Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...

ITI, IOL

Nov 27, 2009

Charlie Bavington wrote:

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
But my friend, that exists already with the ATA certification.

No-one else in the entire world offers such a thing?

Indeed as Giovanni mentioned already, both the ITI and the IOL offer similar exams. There are other certification schemes, like that in Canada and Australia, for instance, with similar requirements and procedure... but all based on proctor-invigilated sittings.

Dan Brennan

United Kingdom
Local time: 05:45

Member (2006)
Russian to English
+ ...

TOPIC STARTER

on fire

Nov 27, 2009

This thread appears to have spouted wings and burst into flames...

WordSwitch
United Kingdom
French to English

A matter of taste

Nov 27, 2009

Daniel,

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on some of the "word butchers" you have referred to. Were the translations truly inadequate, or simply not to your liking?

Dan Brennan

United Kingdom
Local time: 05:45

Member (2006)
Russian to English
+ ...

TOPIC STARTER

elaborating

Nov 28, 2009

WordSwitch wrote:

Daniel,

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on some of the "word butchers" you have referred to. Were the translations truly inadequate, or simply not to your liking?

Hi

I'm not talking about stylistic preference, or indeed about texts that are in need of cosmetic polishing; I'm referring to translations, which, by any measure, are atrocious, due chiefly to two factors a) lack of comprehension and b) an inability to craft prose in one's native tongue.

Dan

Paul Cohen

Greenland
Local time: 02:45
German to English
+ ...

Rating translators is a good idea -- but it wouldn't fly here

Nov 29, 2009

Like many of the other contributors to this interesting thread, I also think a public blacklist would be problematic. But perhaps agencies should swap their own private blacklists? Dan, if you could become a member of a site that was essentially a private forum for exchanging such information, would you join? Of course it would have to be a semi-secret club with restricted membership.

As for the notion of rating translators, well I'm afraid that's not likely to happen anytime soon on ProZ, although I think it's an excellent idea. Why pay for membership on a site that entitles you to a blue ribbon next to your name and a high ranking in the directory for all those wonderful KudoZ pointZ if you're publicly branded as a crap translator? It wouldn't fly.

A highly ambitious peer-based rating system on this site would be financial suicide for the owner -- not primarily because it would be a costly endeavor, but because droves of people would stop paying their annual fees.

As far as I can tell, ProZ is more interested in rewarding people with goodies (a red P, a blue ribbon, a gold star) for good behavior and loyalty than in exposing the wannabes who submit atrocious translations that need to be redone from scratch.

Ranjit Padda
India
Local time: 11:15
English to Panjabi
+ ...

only a few

Nov 29, 2009

it is the time of competition and we have to survive in this age of economic set back situation.
there are a lot who are ready to do work for minimal amounts.
but quality matters, if an agency could not find a good quality translation for less rate they will certainly look for the experience one who may charge more but give good quality work.
only a few agencies are so bad they did not pay or pay less and pay very late.
one can not rely upon only translation work if he or she is freelance translator.
some extra work or job is required for extra earning only then one can survive only a few translation pairs have high quantity work.
so be brave and fight with the rates if you do not want to work for less do not work, but then you have to look for other work to survive.

inkweaver

Germany
Local time: 06:45
English to German
+ ...

Yes, but ...

Nov 29, 2009

I don't think that the idea is such is bad, but how would it work?

Who would check the quality of the proofreader? How would you make sure that the proofreader is not a "word butcher"?

I have seen one of my translation jobs "butchered" by a clearly non-native proofreader and I am certainly glad that my name is not associated with the result. Now if that proofreader had judged my work, my rating would certainly have been not a good one since he or she obviously must have thought that there was a lot to be "improved".

I have not always had the chance to see what proofreaders did to my work, but I have seen that grammatical errors, spelling and puncuation errors, Austrian German (when the text was to be translated into standard German) were made by so-called proofreaders. Other texts were "proofread" by colleagues who clearly had no knowledge of the specific terminology that was required for a particular job. Now if nobody from the agency is a native speaker of the target language and/or has no knowledge of the subject matter, who do they trust? The translator or the proofreader?

WordSwitch
United Kingdom
French to English

Open to abuse

Nov 29, 2009

With the huge business scope that ProZ offers, I would be highly concerned about certain vindictive people using it to discredit someone for their own reasons.

However, on the flipside......

As a very new member of the site (and indeed, a very new entrant into the field of translation) I have yet to conduct any transactions here, but it is easy to see how the feedback, etc. can be "massaged" to give the impression that one is a flawless, excellent translator. Of course, it takes no account of the possibility that innumerable customers could have had a horrendous experience with that particular translator elsewhere.

In that regard, I agree with Dan - there needs to be some kind of accountability for poor translations. But is a public "death by ProZ" justified?

I don't profess to have anywhere near the degree of experience that many established members here have, but in my previous working life it became clear to me that any sole trader (as it seems the majority of translators are) will quickly become victims of word-of-mouth criticism if they consistently produce bad work.