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Why can't I get work?
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Thread poster: Steve Melling

Why can't I get work?

Steve Melling

France
Local time: 22:01

Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...

TOPIC STARTER

Thank you

Jan 8, 2010

Thank you for that post Tamara. It's encouraging that it came right for you even though it took time.

I'm overreacting because money is very tight and I'd hoped that joining Pro Z would help fairly quickly.

It's clearly not the case.

But I'll plug away!

Steve Melling

France
Local time: 22:01

Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...

TOPIC STARTER

To PRAKAASH

Jan 8, 2010

Thank you for your message, Prakaash.

I do send CVs out to agencies and flyers to companies but things are slow and I thought this would be another avenue. I have changed my username and will upload my photo. I'll do anything (legal) to get work.

Tomás Cano Binder, CT

Spain
Local time: 22:01

Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...

This is an endurance race

Jan 8, 2010

As others have mentioned, getting jobs and customers is an endurance race, and two weeks is too short a period to begin to worry. It took many months, sometimes up to two years, to get the first job from some customers who now are frequent customers who send jobs on a daily basis.

I would also recommend you not to use Proz.com (or other websites for that matter) as your sole source of work. Do some good ole' marketing, with a carefully written and polished CV and samples of your work sent out to potential customers, maybe also trustworthy agencies in your country and companies operating internationally but with headquarters around your residence.

Additionally, maybe many people don't agree but I feel that stating such low rates in your profile for your language pairs will not attract good, quality-conscious, good-paying customers. Such customers are the ones you want to attract, and they distrust people who are too cheap. Maybe you want to rise your rates in your profile or remove them altogether, as a way of opening a communication channel with prospects who could want to ask you for your rate and start a discussion about it. During that initial conversation, which could perfectly lead to nothing, you have a chance to explain why using your services is a sound option.

Good luck!

Laurent KRAULAND

France
Local time: 22:01

Member (2007)
French to German
+ ...

As you wrote it, Tomás...

Jan 8, 2010

I will not have to do it:

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Additionally, maybe many people don't agree but I feel that stating such low rates in your profile for your language pairs will not attract good, quality-conscious, good-paying customers. Such customers are the ones you want to attract, and they distrust people who are too cheap. Maybe you want to rise your rates in your profile or remove them altogether, as a way of opening a communication channel with prospects who could want to ask you for your rate and start a discussion about it. During that initial conversation, which could perfectly lead to nothing, you have a chance to explain why using your services is a sound option.

Good luck!

(Emphasis added to what seems a major point in Tomás' quote)

[Edited at 2010-01-08 20:30 GMT]

Steve Melling

France
Local time: 22:01

Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...

TOPIC STARTER

Very sound points

Jan 8, 2010

The last two posts have contained some very sound points. I have wondered about what rate to quote but every rate I see published by agencies is incredibly low.

I think I will sleep on it and develop a strategy. I'm panicking a bit because the bills are flooding in but the cheques are few and far between!

Thank you to everybody for your comments which have all been positive.

Henry Dotterer
United States
Local time: 16:01

Member

SITE FOUNDER

Specialize

Jan 8, 2010

Steve Melling wrote:

I've been a member for two weeks, have applied for thirty jobs and got one for the princely sum of 6 centimes. I've got ten years' experience, work in many "in demand" fields but it's not just working. Hugely disappointed. Am I alone?

First off, thanks for your membership.

To agree with others, if used correctly, ProZ.com can be an excellent source of desirable clients. But (1) it takes time and (2) you will be best off to think of it as just one of your sources of potential client flow.

Others have given great advice. What I would add:

* Your profile should be much richer, and it should communicate that you are the person to go to for certain types of jobs. The directory is the main source of jobs here. (Well, after networking / word of mouth.)

* There is not much point in expressing interest in posted jobs that are not right up your alley. The quotes that get noticed are those that are specific to the posting, and that come from people uniquely suited to handle the job at hand. If you are quoting twice a day, my guess is that you are taking a generalist approach, which does not work well. At ProZ.com, and on the web in general, the winning strategy is to specialize. ( I once wrote a short article on that topic: http://www.proz.com/doc/79 )

Good luck! I hope you make it as a freelance translator, it is a great field. If there is anything we can do for you, please do not hesitate to enter a support ticket.

Henry

Henry Zhang

United Kingdom
Local time: 21:01

Member (2008)
English to Chinese
+ ...

I am lucky

Jan 8, 2010

A few days after I registered myself on proz.com (I wasn't a premium member then), I got my first job here.
It's common not getting a job for several months given the current economic crisis, especially for Chinese translators here. One job posted, most of the time more than 20 translators will apply for it.
Being a certified member helps, try to make contributions to KudoZ.
And also don't only rely on this website, try to send you CV to translation agencies. I got a long-term client by contacting them.
I still quote every job posted on the website, but I never expect too much of it now.

Giles Watson

Italy
Local time: 22:01

Member
Italian to English

Hi Steve

Jan 8, 2010

Steve Melling wrote:

The last two posts have contained some very sound points. I have wondered about what rate to quote but every rate I see published by agencies is incredibly low.

Don't worry about it. They're just looking for the lowest offer. When you have a marketable product of your own, you will be able to set the rate because the clients will be coming to you, and some will even be contacting you through ProZ.

I think I will sleep on it and develop a strategy. I'm panicking a bit because the bills are flooding in but the cheques are few and far between!

You need at least two strategies: one to build your long-term profile and reputation as a reliable supplier of publication-quality translations, and another to sort out your short-term financial difficulties.

Career-building involves boosting your visibility as a skilled translator in specific sectors, and there Proz might be of some use, but quite honestly if urgent financial problems were looming, I'd be prepared to flip burgers or take up whatever other short-term job opportunities my local community offered.

Best of luck with the bills!

Giles

[Edited at 2010-01-08 21:32 GMT]

Jeff Whittaker

United States
Local time: 16:01

Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...

Quoting seldom works

Jan 8, 2010

I have never won a quote on this site in eight years of trying! You will never make it by just quoting on existing jobs. You need to advertise with agencies so that they will already have your contact information when they receive a job. In today's market, you also need a good mix of direct clients. It took me two years before I had substantial work. Fortunately, the internet can help you attain this goal a little faster, but two weeks is nothing. Unfortunately, maybe people new to ProZ think that this site will provide them with work, but in reality it represents less than 10% of the existing translation market.

[Edited at 2010-01-08 21:34 GMT]

Jeff Whittaker

United States
Local time: 16:01

Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...

You probably won't see job offers with high rates

Jan 8, 2010

because if a company is willing to pay a decent rate, there is no need for them to specify it. In the "real world" (outside proz), a rate of .10 or more is usually considered a given fact and companies are more concerned about the abilities of the individual translator and price is not so much of an issue. On the other hand, companies looking for a "bargain" are usually the ones who quote rates. In other words, if a rate is stated, 9 times out of 10 it is way too low.

Unfortunately, this gives the impression that all translation work is poorly paid.

Steve Melling wrote:

The last two posts have contained some very sound points. I have wondered about what rate to quote but every rate I see published by agencies is incredibly low.

I think I will sleep on it and develop a strategy. I'm panicking a bit because the bills are flooding in but the cheques are few and far between!

Thank you to everybody for your comments which have all been positive.

[Edited at 2010-01-08 21:49 GMT]

Giles Watson

Italy
Local time: 22:01

Member
Italian to English

Yes Jeff but...

Jan 8, 2010

clients who are looking for sector-specific skills frequently use the Proz directory to draw up a short list of candidates for their jobs. Obviously, in these cases rates are not the first priority.

To sector-focused translators, Proz can provide contacts that are not primarily interested in rates. Jobs like this are not posted publicly so they tend not to get much publicity, but they are there if you tailor your Proz profile to attract them.

Giles

Henry Dotterer
United States
Local time: 16:01

Member

SITE FOUNDER

Right, Jeff. In fact, it is less than 1%.

Jan 8, 2010

Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Unfortunately, maybe people new to ProZ think that this site will provide them with work, but in reality it represents less than 10% of the existing translation market.

That is true. The activity on this site almost certainly represents less than 1% of the overall translation market.

1% does not wind up being trivial, though. The average annual income reported by ProZ.com members from clients met via the site is in the 5000 euro range. (Not bad for a 114 euro yearly investment -- but not so much that you can rely on it as your sole source of clients.)

Henry Dotterer
United States
Local time: 16:01

Member

SITE FOUNDER

Right, Giles

Jan 8, 2010

Giles Watson wrote:
To sector-focused translators, Proz can provide contacts that are not primarily interested in rates. Jobs like this are not posted publicly so they tend not to get much publicity, but they are there if you tailor your Proz profile to attract them.

Exactly!

KSL Berlin

Germany
Local time: 22:01
German to English

Staying focused and the potential value of the portal

Jan 8, 2010

Henry D wrote:
The average annual income reported by ProZ.com members from clients met via the site is in the 5000 euro range. (Not bad for a 114 euro yearly investment -- but not so much that you can rely on it as your sole source of clients.)

If that were the case here, despite the good ROI, I would have blown this site off long ago, Henry. To be quite honest, the clients that I have picked up over time (starting from sometime in 2001) through ProZ - both profile contacts and relationships established by my response to public job postings - probably bring us between 15 and 20 times that figure. I have other channels I now pursue preferentially, because my current target groups are not really represented here (or are present to a negligible degree), but I must - for my language pair at least - emphatically contradict the impression left by some that

- it is not worthwhile to respond to public job postings
- one must have rates on the low end to attract rates
- customers willing to pay good rates are not to be found anywhere near this portal.

That and other criticisms I see frequently are contradicted by hard evidence I see every week. And you know, I'm not short of criticism for some things here, but most of these three points above and others reflects problems which seldom have much if anything to do with ProZ.

Focused responses and specialization are the key. Back when I had time to do a lot of quote submissions to public project posts, I think my "catch rate" topped 50%. That's not because I walk on water or am that much better that other good colleagues, it's because I only apply for stuff I find interesting and that I'm good at (usually have a track record of R&D or consulting in). If I applied for any and every German/English project listed, I doubt I'd get 5% of the work, and I'd do some of that 5% badly enough that my reputation would probably suffer (worse than it already does).

All the advice offered here from outsourcers and others regarding profiles is valid, and although I haven't take the time for maintaining mine in a while, I take it very seriously. I don't like some of the kinky stuff that shows up here with Google ads when prospects come to the site to look for a translator, but I figure in the end it's like the Yellow Pages. You'll find the neurosurgeons not all that far away from the massage parlors. (But please, Henry, consider doing something about those massage parlors advertised by Google

)

*****

Edited to deal with my usual bruised-finger sloppy typing and to add:

BTW, Steve, thanks for using what looks like a real name. Pseudonyms are not serious for a business portal, and that change alone increased the chances of me taking you seriously. Guys like Eric Blair followed a good tradition of pen names, and if I were to blog from Burma or China, you can bet I probably wouldn't do it under my real name, but if you want my business and start playing the name shell game, you lose. (This obviously does not apply to esteemed colleagues who use their business or domain names or something similar and give their proper personal names in relevant places like profiles or CVs.)

[Edited at 2010-01-08 23:11 GMT]

philgoddard
United States
Local time: 15:01
German to English
+ ...

Take heart Steve...

Jan 8, 2010

I became a paying member at about the same time as you, and have already landed one job which has more than paid for the membership. There are good jobs and good customers in there among all the dross.