| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Rates, rates and LOW rates! Thread poster: Rebecca Lyne
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Alex Lago 
Spain
Local time: 01:13
English to Spanish
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Charlie Bavington wrote:
... that you need to agonise over, re-write, agonise a bit more, re-write, sleep on it, tweak a bit, phone a friend, re-write, and so on und so weiter. I hardly do "marketing" any more because I can't persuade the agencies that send me it that it takes bloody ages to do an even half decent job with most of it, let alone a proper decent job.
Yeah I tend to avoid marketing texts for the same reason, I was definitely looking at this the wrong way, dollars would in fact be a reasonable rate as you do have to spend loads of time going over the text, next time I get a marketing job I'll use this approach, thanks to Nicole as she was the one who "brought it up" it and to you Charlie "for spelling it out for me"  Always good to live and learn.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to German
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In memoriam | No schmoozing involved. :-) | Jul 8, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote: Charlie Bavington wrote:
...the kind of work that pays the translator 0.40 and up...usually involves time spent...schmoozing Nicole...schmoozing...Nicole...schmoozing... No, there is no way. I cannot fit those two concepts in my head at the same time. Nicole, do you schmooze?
I have worked in ad agencies all my life, and I know how much they charge and how much time is allotted to create print ads, brochures, etc. Estimates are delivered in round numbers, and the word "cent" is no part of the vocabulary.
I like to charge flat rates whenever I can, even with agencies. For whatever reason, customers will hardly ever question a nice, round number, but whenever it comes to pennies and cents, the big bargaining starts as if we were on an Oriental-style bazaar.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 01:13
French to English
| This might work Charlie ;-) | Jul 8, 2012 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
... that you need to agonise over, re-write, agonise a bit more, re-write, sleep on it, tweak a bit, phone a friend, re-write, and so on und so weiter. I hardly do "marketing" any more because I can't persuade the agencies that send me it that it takes bloody ages to do an even half decent job with most of it, let alone a proper decent job.
It honestly would not surprise me to find, if you included all the time taken for everyone involved (no doubt including meetings and whatnot), multiplied by a decent hourly rate and divided by the number of words, that it could indeed be dollars per word for proper "translation" (transcreation/localisation/blah blah). After all, this is copy the client may easily have spent hundreds if not thousands on. It may be a load of old bollocks to world-weary cynics like me, but they think it's worth it. So why not pay for a proper job in other languages? Indeed, I would argue it would be a mistake not too.
From what I can gather about the kind of work that pays the translator 0.40 and up, it usually involves time spent doing things other than hammering away at the keyboard. Like meeting people face to face and schmoozing round absorbing background information and suchlike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgvx9OfZKJw&sns=fb
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to German
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In memoriam | This is simply beautiful!! | Jul 8, 2012 |
Thanks for posting, Texte Style!
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| Have you seen the $0.02 and $0.03 rates | Jul 10, 2012 |
Have you seen the $0.02-0.03 rates for some languages. It is a disgrace to this site -- the most professional translation site. The clients should have some basic common sense and dignity. It is almost like begging. My budget is X, please give it to me for free.
If you budget is X, you may just be able to have two of your ten pages translated, just like in a store. When you save enough for the remaining eight pages, you will have them translated.
<... See more Have you seen the $0.02-0.03 rates for some languages. It is a disgrace to this site -- the most professional translation site. The clients should have some basic common sense and dignity. It is almost like begging. My budget is X, please give it to me for free.
If you budget is X, you may just be able to have two of your ten pages translated, just like in a store. When you save enough for the remaining eight pages, you will have them translated.
[Edited at 2012-07-10 11:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:13
Portuguese to English
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| "The most professional translation site" (???) | Jul 10, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
Have you seen the $0.02-0.03 rates for some languages. It is a disgrace to this site -- the most professional translation site.
[Edited at 2012-07-10 11:53 GMT]
This is exactly the problem, it is NOT the most professional translation site by a very long stretch. If an outsourcer wants quality they go to sites like the CIoL, ITI or ATA, that have qualified, professional members. Anyone can join this site and some of us have tried and continue to do our best to make it a more professional site, to stop people lying about credentials and native languages (http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/227485-should_“native_language”_claims_be_verified-page23.html) and offering language combinations that they are not qualified to handle etc. While the site maintains its policy of not vetting the people who join it or verifying information that is posted all we will attract is low quality outsourcers and low rates.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 01:13
French to German
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ProZ.com is simply a portal among others.
It has certainly more interesting features than many of them but that's about it.
I hope that I am not entering legal terrain here, but I think that a vetting process could or would seen as "an obstacle to free trade".
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:13
Portuguese to English
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Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
ProZ.com is simply a portal among others.
It has certainly more interesting features than many of them but that's about it.
I hope that I am not entering legal terrain here, but I think that a vetting process could or would seen as "an obstacle to free trade".
Couldn't agree more and it is that very "free trade" which is behind the low rates Also, if one views this site as "the most professional translation site" one is bound to be disappointed.
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| free trade is free trade but | Jul 11, 2012 |
Free trade is free trade, but lawyers would not work for $10/hr when the more standard rate, not fixed but common, is $200/hr. They follow professional ethics rules which would not allow them to do it, because they would be destroying their profession. Professional translators do the same. The people who accept really low rates, not commensurate with education and experience a translator should have, are not translators, but some kind of office support personnel, who got the mistaken idea about ... See more Free trade is free trade, but lawyers would not work for $10/hr when the more standard rate, not fixed but common, is $200/hr. They follow professional ethics rules which would not allow them to do it, because they would be destroying their profession. Professional translators do the same. The people who accept really low rates, not commensurate with education and experience a translator should have, are not translators, but some kind of office support personnel, who got the mistaken idea about translation. They might have been asked to translate a short letter for their boss, of the type: Your appointment has been rescheduled, and they decided to start translating professionally, without any relevant education or training. What does it tell you if the person has the lowest rates in the industry -- that the person is not professional. Would you go to a doctor who had the lowest rates? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The "most professional translation site" hosts the "Bottom Feeder's Paradise" | Jul 11, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: LilianBoland wrote:
Have you seen the $0.02-0.03 rates for some languages. It is a disgrace to this site -- the most professional translation site.
[Edited at 2012-07-10 11:53 GMT] This is exactly the problem, it is NOT the most professional translation site by a very long stretch. If an outsourcer wants quality they go to sites like the CIoL, ITI or ATA, that have qualified, professional members. Anyone can join this site... While the site maintains its policy of not vetting the people who join it or verifying information that is posted all we will attract is low quality outsourcers and low rates.
ProZ, the "most professional translation site", has a huge side door to the Bottom Feeder's Paradise (the Jobs Board), where jobs are mostly given to the lowest bidders (the "peanut eaters", as our colleague Laurent Krauland calls them).
And yes, you see $0.02-0.03 rates on ProZ, and it is not a disgrace to this site; they are its signature, for God's sake!!
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 01:13
French to German
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| OT: small difference | Jul 12, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
Free trade is free trade, but lawyers would not work for $10/hr when the more standard rate, not fixed but common, is $200/hr. They follow professional ethics rules which would not allow them to do it, because they would be destroying their profession. Professional translators do the same. The people who accept really low rates, not commensurate with education and experience a translator should have, are not translators, but some kind of office support personnel, who got the mistaken idea about translation. They might have been asked to translate a short letter for their boss, of the type: Your appointment has been rescheduled, and they decided to start translating professionally, without any relevant education or training. What does it tell you if the person has the lowest rates in the industry -- that the person is not professional. Would you go to a doctor who had the lowest rates?
Can one be a part-time doctor or lawyer? Probably not, that wouldn't work too well.
Can one be a part-time translator? Yes, and it works "quite well" when ones needs to supplement their income.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:13
Portuguese to English
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Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Can one be a part-time doctor or lawyer? Probably not, that wouldn't work too well.
Laurent, I do know several part-time doctors and lawyers (all women). It's very common here.
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 01:13
English to Polish
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Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Can one be a part-time doctor or lawyer? Probably not, that wouldn't work too well.
Can one be a part-time translator? Yes, and it works "quite well" when ones needs to supplement their income.
Not reason why one cannot be a part-time doctor or lawyer. (In fact, Polish doctors almost always work at more than one place, which makes each gig a part-time job.)
They may choose to do the job full-time because they lack viable alternatives. In contrast, translators who are non-linguists often do have viable alternatives.
In fact, I personally know a part-time lawyer (a qualified solicitor, in fact) who is also a part-time farmer, believe it or not, so it's not something completely unheard of.
[Edited at 2012-07-12 06:51 GMT]
| | | | Strastran (X)
France
Local time: 01:13
French to English
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| "Best rates" | Jul 12, 2012 |
Does anyone else hate this phrase?
I have rates, nothing more, nothing less. 'Please send us your best rates' seems to me to be a euphemism for 'please be cheap'.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 01:13
French to German
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| I hate this as much as... | Jul 12, 2012 |
"We have a translation for you, please send us your CV."
Patrick Stenson wrote:
Does anyone else hate this phrase?
I have rates, nothing more, nothing less. 'Please send us your best rates' seems to me to be a euphemism for 'please be cheap'.
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