What do you think of this clause
Thread poster: Eno Damo
Eno Damo  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:57
English to Albanian
+ ...
Aug 10, 2004

Hello,

A translation company contacted me today as it is expanding its database of Albanian translators. In their contract it was included the following clause: "In the event that [Company] is not satisfied with the services of the translator, [Company] shall not be obliged to issue a certificate of completion and shall not be obliged to pay the translator the agreed fee." What do you think of this clause?

Thank you in advance,

Eno Damo


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:27
English to Tamil
+ ...
It stinks Aug 10, 2004

Nothing more nothing less. It is a sure ticket to disaster. If the agency is not satisfied with your work they should justify their statement. Otherwise they may just say that they are not satisfied and that would be that. You will not be paid. Avoid such people like the plague.

Regards,
N.Raghavan


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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:57
English to Spanish
+ ...
I Think Aug 10, 2004

You should not deal with the company under any circumstances. Better to know now than when it is too late. They will look for any pretext and then refuse to pay.

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Baruch Avidar  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 23:57
English to Hebrew
+ ...
IMMO Aug 10, 2004

Just delete their e-mail from your address book and forget it!
Bar


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 16:57
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
I join the chorus Aug 10, 2004

Working for these people will be a waste of your time.

Nancy


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xxxjamse
Local time: 22:57
German to Russian
+ ...
Forget them ... Aug 10, 2004

as soon as possible.

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xxxBrandis
Local time: 22:57
English to German
+ ...
demand full down payment Aug 10, 2004

Eno Damo wrote:

Hello,

A translation company contacted me today as it is expanding its database of Albanian translators. In their contract it was included the following clause: "In the event that [Company] is not satisfied with the services of the translator, [Company] shall not be obliged to issue a certificate of completion and shall not be obliged to pay the translator the agreed fee." What do you think of this clause?

Thank you in advance,

Eno Damo
Hi I would do this way. Call the bluff - demand full down payment + 30% adjustment fee. Let them backup.
Rgds,
Brandis


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 22:57
English to French
+ ...
Don't Aug 10, 2004

Eno Damo wrote:

"In the event that [Company] is not satisfied with the services of the translator, [Company] shall not be obliged to issue a certificate of completion and shall not be obliged to pay the translator the agreed fee."


It is the perfect excuse for not paying you, they can say anytime they are not satisfied and you have nothing to stand on.


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Mc LEHM TRADUCTORES,S.L. Vendor Manager
Spain
Local time: 22:57
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
The other side of the coin Aug 10, 2004

I will be the bad guy, this time!! I work for a Translation company, but I am also a translator... Sometimes we use Proz to look for translators. Sometimes translators are good, some other times not so good and sometimes are very, very bad. How do I defend myself in this case? I know there is a Blue Board for translators to inform other translators about my company, but what can I do when I get a translation full of mistakes? The only way for me is to fix is paying an extra reviewer. Do I have to pay for that myself if you have done a shitty job?? The client is for sure not going to pay for that...

We include that clause in our Collaboration Agreement but we have only used it twice so far... What can I say?



[Edited at 2004-08-10 12:55]


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 13:57
English to French
+ ...
Probably realistic Aug 10, 2004

Hi Eno,
I agree that the clause stinks.
However, agencies have been known to reject and not pay
bad translations. This clause is just stating the obvious.
This agency may have had bad experiences in the past, eg
a client not paying for a translation they did not accept,
and the agency still had to pay the translator.
I don't know the agency you're referring to, but I think
we should be prepared to see this type of clause appear in
more contracts.


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:57
German to English
+ ...
What do you think of this clause Aug 10, 2004

sarahl wrote:

...agencies have been known to reject and not pay bad translations.


Which is, in my opinion, understandable and acceptable. If a translation is sub-standard, the translator should (normally) be given the opportunity to correct it, or pay someone else to have it corrected, and until that is done, not be paid.

What is unacceptable about this clause is not that the agency is entitled not to pay if the translation is sub-standard. It is the agency's reserving the right for itself to decide whether the translation is sub-standard.

Marc


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Thierry thierry_lafaye
Spain
Local time: 22:57
English to French
+ ...
Agree with Sarah and Javier, though I would hope not to see it Aug 10, 2004

This is quite standard indeed as far as I could see in most contracts/POs that I have seen in my hand (I am only working as a freelancer). So far so good, I never had a bad encounter but this may also happen that an agency may want to run away with the money and the work I provided them with.

This said, what I do is to investigate with the BlueBoard and have a look at their own website and opinions from colleagues if I have any doubt and to see if it is safe for me to take this risk to provide any job (especially when there is a big work to be provided for some time with the delay of getting the invoice paid, etc. You know it as much as I do) so known "serious" players will be paying you for sure if you do provide serious work. I have done some proof-reading too and sometimes, I'm puzzled if the agency should pay for it or not as it does exist not serious translators too and I guess this is just fair play to them. In such case, I just don't want to assume evil for all agencies in the place or else I just don't know why I would keep on pursuing working at all as a freelancer or even in the translation field.

But maybe I've been just too lucky until now to only get to work with honest people Touching wood.

To conclude, I guess you should negotiate still. If they are honest, they may understand you discussing (I have done that when there were too limiting clauses and to a certain point, you can always do that if they are honest). If they start moaning but you know you’re not dragging it too far, just forget about them and that's less time wasted, I guess?


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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:57
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Comments Aug 10, 2004

Possible actions you can take:

1. Get money up front before working for them.
2. Strike out the clause.
3. Throw it out and move on.

In any case, a good agency client will have procedures in place to ensure you are as good as you say you are. Even if you don't do good work, they should pay you and then move on themselves. A good client always pays, no matter what. A bad translation here and there are hazards of being in this business.

It sounds like it isn't a good client anyway. Keep searching.


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Mc LEHM TRADUCTORES,S.L. Vendor Manager
Spain
Local time: 22:57
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
QA/QC Aug 17, 2004

Hi Tayfun,

Yes, nothing comes out from our offices without being reviewed. We do have a Department that the only thing they do is review translations... BUT, it's also true that we only have a limited number of languages in-house so the rest has to come out to freelance reviewers or has to be sent to the client just proofread instead of reviewed...

The problem arises when you assign 10 hours for a Review and it becomes 20. You cannot stop the workchain so we have to send it out and pay extra... and inventing excuses because we have overpassed the deadline.

Tayfun Torunoglu wrote:

Do you send all translations by any translator, even if you know he is very good,for proofreading/revision as a standard QA/QC procedure ?
OR do you only send some of those bad ones returned from client?

Javier González wrote:

I will be the bad guy, this time!! I work for a Translation company, but I am also a translator... Sometimes we use Proz to look for translators. Sometimes translators are good, some other times not so good and sometimes are very, very bad. How do I defend myself in this case? I know there is a Blue Board for translators to inform other translators about my company, but what can I do when I get a translation full of mistakes? The only way for me is to fix is paying an extra reviewer. Do I have to pay for that myself if you have done a shitty job?? The client is for sure not going to pay for that...

We include that clause in our Collaboration Agreement but we have only used it twice so far... What can I say?



[Edited at 2004-08-10 12:55]


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Jason Willis-Lee  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agreeing Sep 10, 2004

Edward Potter wrote:

Possible actions you can take:

1. Get money up front before working for them.
2. Strike out the clause.
3. Throw it out and move on.

In any case, a good agency client will have procedures in place to ensure you are as good as you say you are. Even if you don't do good work, they should pay you and then move on themselves. A good client always pays, no matter what. A bad translation here and there are hazards of being in this business.

It sounds like it isn't a good client anyway. Keep searching.



I agree with Edward, I have had some bad experiences with clients even questioning quality to try and slow down payment, as he so rightly says, a good client pays on time or faster and should get fully involved in the quality control process. Those that aren't worth their salt are the ones trying to hand out work with one hand and hand it in with the other without even looking at the piece of paper they are charging for.

Best
Jason


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