| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Word Count question to calculate quote Thread poster: GRI BUONGIORNE
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GRI BUONGIORNE 
United States
Local time: 04:37
English to Spanish
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Hello, I need some help with determining the word count for a project. A prospective client is asking for a quote on a booklet that seems to be about 17,000 words. When I cut and paste the pdf file they sent into my Word, that is the number I get. However when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word...the results is
obviously too much...so what does one do?
What Word Count should I use?
Is there a system here that I am not aware of?
Thanks for any input,
gri bu... See more Hello, I need some help with determining the word count for a project. A prospective client is asking for a quote on a booklet that seems to be about 17,000 words. When I cut and paste the pdf file they sent into my Word, that is the number I get. However when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word...the results is
obviously too much...so what does one do?
What Word Count should I use?
Is there a system here that I am not aware of?
Thanks for any input,
gri buongiorne ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Ask the customer | Feb 11, 2013 |
S GRISELDA H BUONGIORNE wrote:
Hello, I need some help with determining the word count for a project. A prospective client is asking for a quote on a booklet that seems to be about 17,000 words. When I cut and paste the pdf file they sent into my Word, that is the number I get. However when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word...the results is
obviously too much...so what does one do?
Ask the customer how did they reach the figure they are proposing. Maybe they expect you to use a CAT tool which you might not have/use.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Large word counts lead to large amounts | Feb 11, 2013 |
S GRISELDA H BUONGIORNE wrote:
A prospective client is asking for a quote on a booklet that seems to be about 17,000 words. ... However when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word, the results is obviously too much. So what does one do?
Well, if the client is not a business and they will not be making any money from the booklet, then USD 1 700 does seem like a lot of money for translating a simple booklet. But that's what translation costs. Private clients (and some business clients too) are often shocked to discover what the price of translation is, and some [new] translators are unkeen to ask such high amounts because it seems excessive. But that's what translation costs.
If it is a private client and you think that they will not be able to afford that, and if you really want to help them out and you have the time to do so, then you're welcome to reduce your quote, but you should always calculate what the per-word count is of the reduced quote.
So if the client says he'll pay you e.g. USD 250.00 for the job, then the important thing is that you are aware that this equals 1.5 cents per word, and that if you translate 2000 words per day, you would be earning USD 29.00 per day, or roughly USD 3.50 per hour. If you're happy to do this (for a friend, perhaps), then that is your decision, but you must be aware of it.
[Edited at 2013-02-11 09:43 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:37
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Tell your client how long it will take | Feb 11, 2013 |
S GRISELDA H BUONGIORNE wrote:
A prospective client is asking for a quote on a booklet that seems to be about 17,000 words.
when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word...the results is obviously too much
The result is 1,700 units of whatever currency you quote in. Why is that too much? If that currency is USD, then it certainly isn't too much (IMO, anyway, though you're living a long way from me and working in a different pair so I'm no expert).
What Word Count should I use?
Word's count is pretty reliable and, although all counting tools use slightly different rules, there isn't a major difference between them - another tool is not going to halve your quote. And why would you want it to?
A CAT tool will count the entire number of words (which will be similar to Word's count) but will also give a total of words found in segments that are repeated within the file. As an example, if they've printed the 10 words of their company name and the booklet's title on each of 15 pages, then a CAT tool will include 150 words in the total word count, and 140 in the "repetitions" count: some clients refuse to pay for repetitions, others pay reduced amounts. That's for you to negotiate with each client.
As Samuel says, many clients are unaware of how much you need to pay for a professional translation. But that doesn't mean you should lower your rates. They may think you can translate at the speed a typist can type--40 wpm at least--when in reality we translate at about one-tenth of that speed. If only it went in the eyes in one language and came out of the fingertips in another! OTOH, wouldn't that be boring?
I'm sure if you tell your client that you will need to work for maybe 60+ hours on this translation, they will realise they won't get it for much less. "Time is money" is something everyone understands nowadays.
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Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 15:37
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
Private clients (and some business clients too) are often shocked to discover what the price of translation is, and some [new] translators are unkeen to ask such high amounts because it seems excessive. But that's what translation costs.
That's what translation costs.
| | | | Tom Pesch
Finland
Local time: 15:37
English to Finnish
| not too much at all | Feb 11, 2013 |
S GRISELDA H BUONGIORNE wrote:
obviously too much
No, it's not too much. Why would you charge less for your time working on a translation than you would get paid by selling hamburgers at McDonald's? Remember that you also need to pay for your computer, translation software, pension savings, holiday savings etc. etc.
| | | | | Taking one step back | Feb 11, 2013 |
S GRISELDA H BUONGIORNE wrote:
However when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word...the results is obviously too much...
Who says it is too much? Your customer?
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 14:37
Danish to English
+ ...
| Not nearly enough | Feb 11, 2013 |
I am shocked to see that you think USD 0.10 per word is too much for any job, let alone a medium-sized job like this one. In my view, it is about half the price of what you should be charging as a minimum.
However, as others have said, giving discounts on any job is entirely at your discretion. Personally, I would not give any volume discount on jobs of less than about 50,000 words.
Beware of giving in to client demands for low rates. If you do so, how are you going to ... See more I am shocked to see that you think USD 0.10 per word is too much for any job, let alone a medium-sized job like this one. In my view, it is about half the price of what you should be charging as a minimum.
However, as others have said, giving discounts on any job is entirely at your discretion. Personally, I would not give any volume discount on jobs of less than about 50,000 words.
Beware of giving in to client demands for low rates. If you do so, how are you going to argue for higher (more decent) rates with the same client in future? ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I'm not shocked | Feb 11, 2013 |
Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:
I am shocked to see that you think USD 0.10 per word is too much for any job, let alone a medium-sized job like this one. In my view, it is about half the price of what you should be charging as a minimum.
The rate for English-Spanish is not the same as the rate for English-Danish (as far as market forces are concerned). ProZ.com's own statistics of rates that users enter into their own profile pages (i.e. not what clients offer, but what translators charge) show that non-specialist Danish translation pays between USD 0.10 and 0.13 whereas the same figures for Spanish are USD 0.08 and 0.11.
What you're saying is that Gri should be charging USD 0.20 per word -- that is bad advice, IMO. Gri would be pricing herself out of the market. The fact that you are a high-priced translator in your language combination does not mean Gri should try to be one as well.
Besides, the problem Gri faced was not the size of the per-word rate but the appearance of the per-job amount, which seemed disproportionally high for the product that needed translating.
[Edited at 2013-02-11 13:04 GMT]
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 14:37
Danish to English
+ ...
| There's always a choice | Feb 11, 2013 |
@ Samuel
You can opt for the better end of the market and set rates at a decent level and try to make translation purchasers see the value of our work, or you can opt for the lower end of the market and accept the view that translation is a low-skill, low-paid profession.
Rates of 0.10 to 0.13 USD per word in any translation involving Danish is simply ludicrous. I don't know where ProZ gets its statistics from, but if this is what they say, they are misleading. I assure... See more @ Samuel
You can opt for the better end of the market and set rates at a decent level and try to make translation purchasers see the value of our work, or you can opt for the lower end of the market and accept the view that translation is a low-skill, low-paid profession.
Rates of 0.10 to 0.13 USD per word in any translation involving Danish is simply ludicrous. I don't know where ProZ gets its statistics from, but if this is what they say, they are misleading. I assure you that my rates are NOT high, they are at the low end of the Danish market. ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 07:37
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Direct client or agency? | Feb 11, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
What you're saying is that Gri should be charging USD 0.20 per word -- that is bad advice, IMO. Gri would be pricing herself out of the market. The fact that you are a high-priced translator in your language combination does not mean Gri should try to be one as well.
Gri hasn't clarified whether this is a direct client or agency. Surely most respectable agencies will charge more than .20 per word, even for English-Spanish?
Besides, the problem Gri faced was not the size of the per-word rate but the appearance of the per-job amount, which seemed disproportionally high for the product that needed translating.
[Edited at 2013-02-11 13:04 GMT]
I do agree on that point. It might help to put it in perspective. Will the translated booklet be resold? Is it being used to advertise a product or service? If so, how much money does the client expect to make from it? Of course, that goes to what the translation is worth to the client, which is really irrelevant to the value of Gri's work or time. Clearly, from the translator's standpoint, .10, even for 17k words, is not too high by any stretch of the imagination.
| | | | ibz
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
| Still wondering ... | Feb 11, 2013 |
I'm still wondering why Gri thinks that the amount she calculated is "obviously too much". Maybe she could clarify. Thanks!
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S GRISELDA H BUONGIORNE wrote:
Hello, I need some help with determining the word count for a project. A prospective client is asking for a quote on a booklet that seems to be about 17,000 words. When I cut and paste the pdf file they sent into my Word, that is the number I get. However when I multiply this by my rate of .10 per word...the results is
obviously too much...so what does one do?
What Word Count should I use?
Is there a system here that I am not aware of?
Thanks for any input,
gri buongiorne
Have you tryed usig Freebudget? it analyses your text and you can establish different rates for repeated words and for new words, then it calculates the rates and you can export everything on excell.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| @Gitte and Rudolf | Feb 11, 2013 |
Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:
...or you can opt for the lower end of the market and accept the view that translation is a low-skill, low-paid profession.
Actually, it requires high skill (not low skill) to make a living with low rates. (-:
Rates of 0.10 to 0.13 USD per word in any translation involving Danish is simply ludicrous. I don't know where ProZ gets its statistics from...
ProZ.com gets it directly from its members. Granted, this includes both paying and non-paying members.
So I did a quick check among the top 25 Danish-native translators who do English-Danish as their only language combination. Seven of them stated a rate on their profile page, web site or résumé:
0.10 - 0.13 USD
0.09 - 0.12 EUR
0.09 - 0.15 EUR
0.08 - 0.08 GBP
0.10 EUR
0.11 EUR
0.13 EUR
I respect your opinion about your rate being average for Danish, but the above figures give an alternative view. I did the same for Spanish -- out of the top 25 Spanish-native translators who do English-Spanish as their only language combination, nine stated a rate on their profile page, web site or résumé:
0.04 - 0.07 USD
0.05 USD
0.10 USD
0.10 - 0.12 USD
0.11 USD
0.11 USD
0.09 EUR
0.12 - 0.15 USD
0.20 - 0.40 USD
I realise that the lists are sorted by KudoZ points and that that alone is not an indication of skill. Also, note that EUR 1 = USD 1.3 and GBP 1 = USD 1.6.
Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
Surely most respectable agencies will charge more than .20 per word, even for English-Spanish?
Who knows. I also checked the top 17 English-native translators who do Croatian-English as one of their top 3 languages. Six of them mentioned their rate on the profile page, web site or résumé:
0.04 - 0.10 EUR
0.05 EUR
0.05 EUR
0.03 - 0.05 GBP
0.12 USD
0.16 - 0.22 CAD
[Edited at 2013-02-11 16:36 GMT]
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 14:37
Danish to English
+ ...
| Rates shown on ProZ do not give a realistic picture | Feb 11, 2013 |
The rates shown here only represent the people on ProZ who have chosen to display their rates. To say that the statistics automatically give a realistic picture of 'real life' is, at best, naïve.
Due to my experience from working seven years for a Danish translation agency (as an in-house translator) I know that my rates are among the lowest charged by native Danish translators, which means that the top end of the range you have found here at ProZ.com is the low end of the actual D... See more The rates shown here only represent the people on ProZ who have chosen to display their rates. To say that the statistics automatically give a realistic picture of 'real life' is, at best, naïve.
Due to my experience from working seven years for a Danish translation agency (as an in-house translator) I know that my rates are among the lowest charged by native Danish translators, which means that the top end of the range you have found here at ProZ.com is the low end of the actual Danish market.
However, I am afraid we are both digressing from the original question.
Added P.S.
I have just noticed a new job posting in the English-Danish section where a job for the translation of a 2800 word marketing text is offered at the princely rate of 0.04 EUR per word! This is outrageous, but I would not be surprised if the vendor actually found someone who was willing to snap up this 'lucrative' offer... It won't be me, though... 
[Edited at 2013-02-11 18:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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