| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | What is our time worth? Thread poster: KARIS ISABELLA DAVOGLIO
|
|---|
Laura Gentili 
Italy
Local time: 05:22
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Clarification | Feb 21, 2013 |
It means that one Hebrew page of, let's say, 100 words, corresponds to one Italian page of 150 words (+50%).
Laura
| | | | | Asian languages vs European languages | Feb 21, 2013 |
Kevin Fulton wrote:
How could you possibly collect a fee? You would have some agreement in place before you could enforce such a charge, and I can't imagine any client agreeing to this.
Let me propose an analogous situation to illustrate the impossibility of your proposal. Suppose you go to an automobile dealership and try to negotiate a good price. Let's say you can't get the right price you want, or the Fiat (or whatever) dealer can't offer a car with the features you want, so you go to the Alfa dealer and get a car. Is the Fiat dealer entitled to charge you a fee for having wasted an hour of his time?
A cancellation fee is very difficult to enforce if there's not already a prior agreement in place. Conceivably you could charge a fee if you have started a project and it's cancelled (and all the agencies I've worked with have paid for work performed prior to the cancellation), but I can't imagine any jurisdiction, European or otherwise, enforcing a fee for time wasted responding to a query.
Hi Kevin,
thank you for your post.
I see your point. Yet, what I'm trying to figure out, jointly with all your contributions and opinions, is a way to maximize my work, optimizing efforts.
A large quotation, if done accurately, takes time (in this sector, as Neil Coffey rightly pointed out) takes time, requires sometimes the right softwares (AbbyFR etc). What, honestly, ticks me off especially from direct clients, is that they're totally clueless of what they ask, sometimes with a very demanding attitude and seldom not so polite whn it come to providing feedback. Don't tell me you never experienced a zero feedback, only silence, after providing a quote.
| | | | | Hebrew > Italian word count | Feb 21, 2013 |
Laura Gentili wrote:
It means that one Hebrew page of, let's say, 100 words, corresponds to one Italian page of 150 words (+50%).
Laura
Ok I see. Thank you for your clarification Laura.
| | | | | Sympathetic but the odds are long | Feb 21, 2013 |
I fully understand the OP's position, but as others have pointed out, I'm not sure how well charging for quote preparation will work - as I think she's finding out.
There are plenty of professions where the service provider will charge (and in some cases charge plenty) just for a "consultation" or even an "estimate" (usually involving a consultation or examination), and in a way, providing a quote based on complex material is very similar.
An agency once sent me such a ... See more I fully understand the OP's position, but as others have pointed out, I'm not sure how well charging for quote preparation will work - as I think she's finding out.
There are plenty of professions where the service provider will charge (and in some cases charge plenty) just for a "consultation" or even an "estimate" (usually involving a consultation or examination), and in a way, providing a quote based on complex material is very similar.
An agency once sent me such a request - various documents in .pdf formats, some were reference material, some needed to be translated, some were partially in the target text and partially in the source text - they wanted me to provide a quote that would take into consideration all of the translation, the proofreading, possible discounts for using material from previous texts, etc. On top of that, I knew that the job was only "potential".
After nearly an hour of trying to work out a quote - and realizing that I would need to spend at least twice that long to come up with a proper one - I was extremely frustrated and tending toward anger. The agency was familiar with my pricing per word and per hour, so if .pdf files needed to be processed (OCR) and analyzed (aligned) - I saw that as their job!
In the end I told them that even though they wanted me to give them a "flat rate quote", I simply could not spend the amount of time required for that. I told them that I was prepared to charge xx per word and xx per hour, and that if and when they were able to provide an analysis of matching text (or files that I could analyze for myself), I was prepared to consider a discount. Period.
In the end, I never heard back and I'm assuming the agency did not "win" the project. Considering how they handled things up to that point, I wasn't too upset about it. Most of my clients are agencies, and if I am ever faced with a similar situation, I've decided that I will proceed in exactly the same way (but probably not spend a whole hour first).
Now, I can very well imagine that there would be a sticking point with direct clients, and this is where I am totally sympathetic with the OP. A (potential) direct client can just dump anything in your lap and expect you to be able to provide a quote.
Although I think a fee is reasonable, I think it would be hard to pursue - most agencies and LSPs are fighting so hard to get clients, they are cutting rates to the bone (and below), so of course they are going to offer all of these "services" for free (sometimes trying to get us poor linguists to do the dirty work - see above!). So of course clients are used to that kind of service, and not all freelance linguists are able to oblige.
What I start out telling potential direct clients is basically the same thing I tell agencies - my fees vary depending on the work involved, which is influenced not only by the amount and complexity of the text, but also the file format. I try to encourage them to provide countable files by explaining that in the end I will be charging them a higher rate to work from .pdf files anyway.
If they are unwilling or unable to provide countable files, or if they were to insist on "discounts" (for example) because they have x number of texts from previous years they want to include, then I would look at the amount that needs to be done, and I suppose if it comes to more than an hour's time, I would be truthful: That because of the format of the files they have supplied, the quote they are requesting involves actual preparation for the work, and that they will have two choices. Either I will have to charge x for my time spent on this preparation - which could then be applied to the total cost of the project once the quote is accepted - or they will simply have to wait until I have enough "free" time at my disposal to perform the preparation they are requesting.
I don't know if this would work, and I've never had to try it. But based on my own experience (as little as it is), I'm pretty sure I would take this approach, toss the dice and see... ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 23:22
German to English
| My experience is different | Feb 21, 2013 |
KARIS ISABELLA DAVOGLIO wrote: Don't tell me you never experienced a zero feedback, only silence, after providing a quote.
To be honest, this has happened rarely during the 40 or so years I've been translating. My quotes with respect to rate or delivery date have sometimes been turned down (mainly due to unrealistic expectations regarding turnaround), but I can't recall a realistic request for quote that was met with silence. There have been a few queries along the lines of "How much would it cost to convert 5000 words to English", to which I've replied that I need to see the document before giving a firm price/turnaround time, and the potential client hasn't responded.
Perhaps my experience has been shaped by not taking rush jobs from new clients, being careful about how I market myself and not willing to be a doormat. I've developed an instinct for knowing when to turn down a prospective offer. Most of the time I'm in the fortunate position of turning down as much work as I accept.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 04:22
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Why not insist on them telling you how many words there are? ;) | Feb 21, 2013 |
KARIS ISABELLA DAVOGLIO wrote:
A large quotation, if done accurately, takes time (in this sector, as Neil Coffey rightly pointed out) takes time, requires sometimes the right softwares (AbbyFR etc). What, honestly, ticks me off especially from direct clients, is that they're totally clueless of what they ask, sometimes with a very demanding attitude and seldom not so polite whn it come to providing feedback. Don't tell me you never experienced a zero feedback, only silence, after providing a quote.
My experience, in a pair where there are thousands of professional translators in the queue, is that probably the majority of quotes end up with "no thanks" or complete silence. It certainly isn't unusual, anyway.
But I wouldn't think of asking for payment, nor would I spend an hour and a half on a quote. If that sort of quote is called for I think you need to educate your direct clients, and get rid of your agency clients. When I receive a PDF, I spend just a short while seeing if it's easy to deal with - if it isn't, I reject the job out of hand as I'm no techy. If it isn't too bad, I send a brief explanation of the extra cost involved in non-editable formats, accompanied by my rates per word and per hour. If they come back, then I'll spend a bit longer on them as they're clearly not too put off by those rates. Second round, they either produce an editable file (so problem ended, quote takes very little time); or they say they really need the PDF file worked on. Then I'll convert it into text so I can count it and see how much formatting will be needed (again, this doesn't take too long). Then they get the price for the translation (per word) and the price for the conversion/formatting (per hour).
I suppose if you do accept the worst scanned PDFs then you might want to take longer on the quote, but I would personally have thought that would always be a waste of time. Surely all you can do is give them an hourly rate. I wouldn't even give a per-target-word rate as it may not be the words that take the bulk of the time. Can you really not educate them to understand the problem?
| | | | | a valuable learning process | Feb 21, 2013 |
First of all thank you all so much for your valuable contribution!
I see this is a matter that needed (from my side for sure) to be addressed at last. I find your experience and suggestions very interesting and valuable.
I shall for sure take them all in careful consideration. As time is of the essence for all of us.
Sometimes you need to educate your direct clients, sometimes you manage some othe... See more First of all thank you all so much for your valuable contribution!
I see this is a matter that needed (from my side for sure) to be addressed at last. I find your experience and suggestions very interesting and valuable.
I shall for sure take them all in careful consideration. As time is of the essence for all of us.
Sometimes you need to educate your direct clients, sometimes you manage some other times you just can't, yet that is already a clue, isn't it now?!
I will go through all your experiences more than once and try to come up with a reasonable 'medley' .
Have a great evening, colleagues!
Hope I myself will be able to contribute in other topics
cheers, for now! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » What is our time worth? | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
