| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Consequences of late delivery Thread poster: Max Zalewski
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Max Zalewski 
United States
Local time: 05:29
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all for your posts, I will likely use a combination of all of your suggestions. In particular, I plan on asking the translator what he/she thinks is fair, and how they would treat a different translator if they were in my position. I don't want to be unjustly harsh, but I was not able to develop confidence with the client as a result of the translator's late delivery and I think that ought to have some sort of consequence. I will also show the translator the variety of opinions offer... See more Thank you all for your posts, I will likely use a combination of all of your suggestions. In particular, I plan on asking the translator what he/she thinks is fair, and how they would treat a different translator if they were in my position. I don't want to be unjustly harsh, but I was not able to develop confidence with the client as a result of the translator's late delivery and I think that ought to have some sort of consequence. I will also show the translator the variety of opinions offered here and people who have sent me advice off of the post (thank you as well).
Kind regards,
Max ▲ Collapse
| | | | NataliaAnne
Brazil
Local time: 07:29
Portuguese to English
| Protect yourself in the future | Apr 18, 2013 |
Jessica Noyes wrote:
I suggest you ask the translator what kind of discount he/she/they plan/s to offer for the late delivery. Mention the inconvenience to you, the extra time to create the TM, etc. This takes you out of the role of meter-out of punishment, and allows the translator to save face. Offering a discount is very different from being "fined," "docked," or "penalized." We are wordsmiths after all, so we know that the terms that are chosen in any circumstance are very important. So first give the person a chance to voluntarily make good on the situation.
I think Jessica's suggestion could be a useful way to resolve your current situation.
Janet Rubin wrote:
What I'm sure we are all wondering - what on earth did this translator say was/were the reason(s) behind a delivery that was late by three days?! Was the OP in constant communication (every day) with the translator while the translation was late? Did the OP request that the translator turn in what s/he had at that time? Did the OP tell the translator that there would be (any) consequences of this late delivery? What was going on for those three days??
I was definitely thinking this! Three days is a very long time and I keep wondering what was happening for all that time.
I have never actually delivered late but I have had difficulties and communicated them to the PM, along with flagging the possibility that I may be late, and by how much. For example, last year there was a 6-hour blackout and I couldn’t do anything during this time. I told the PM, said I would work overnight to get the project done by morning but also let her know that the worst case scenario would be delivering the project up to 3 hours late. I still met the original deadline but the PM was informed and prepared in case she needed to juggle revisions around and/or inform the client. The point I’m making is that communication is crucial and I think it's a given to expect translators to flag any potential problems before the deadline.
Last year I got a bit paranoid and even started thinking about what would happen if I got hit by a bus or had some other accident which prevented me from letting a client know their translation wouldn’t be delivered. With my partner rolling his eyes at my paranoia, I showed him my job spread sheet, how to identify any undelivered projects and where the client contact details are, just in case I needed someone else to call a client in an extreme situation - lol! What I’m trying to say is that I take all measures possible to ensure clients are informed.
Moving away from thoughts of gruesome accidents, it could perhaps be useful to establish some practices to make sure you don’t end up in the same situation again. Based on my experience as a translator – not an outsourcer:
Partial deliveries
Most agencies I work for asked for partial deliveries for the first project, providing they were more than a day’s work. For example, I recently did a 15,000 word translation for a brand new client and he asked for two partial deliveries prior to the final delivery. I think this is perfectly reasonable when starting a new collaboration and I’m more than happy to oblige. From my point of view, it’s also useful to discuss any preferences along the way (e.g. date formats, dealing with the names of organisations etc).
Clear penalties
I’ve just had a quick look at some of the POs I’ve been issued and many include specific penalties for late delivery, for example:
1 hour: 10%
3 hours: 20%
5 hours: 30%
1 day: 50%
2 days: 70%
These penalties may seem harsh but, as a translator, I honestly have no problem accepting them. Whenever I agree to/suggest a deadline, I always factor in a bit of leeway for myself anyway, to make sure I’m not working right up to a deadline.
Good luck sorting out the issue!
[Edited at 2013-04-18 14:47 GMT]
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 03:29
English to German
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In memoriam | @NataliaAnne: I would never, ever accept such POs | Apr 18, 2013 |
NataliaAnne wrote:
I’ve just had a quick look at some of the POs I’ve been issued and many include specific penalties for late delivery, for example:
1 hour: 10%
3 hours: 20%
5 hours: 30%
1 day: 50%
2 days: 70%
These penalties may seem harsh but, as a translator, I honestly have no problem accepting them. Whenever I agree to/suggest a deadline, I always factor in a bit of leeway for myself anyway, to make sure I’m not working right up to a deadline.
You are saying that a 100k project (min. US $16,000.00 net without external editing) should be penalized by 10% because the upload of the huge project took forever on the recipient's lame server? You must be kidding.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 03:29
English to German
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In memoriam
NataliaAnne wrote:
Whenever I agree to/suggest a deadline, I always factor in a bit of leeway for myself anyway, to make sure I’m not working right up to a deadline.
So do outsourcers, provided that they are professionals and know a bit about project management. On average, decent language service providers allow themselves an internal grace period of 2 days for quality check and daily life imponderabilia AFTER the editing process because reputation and good standing with their end clients is key. Only envelope-pushers gamble.
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NataliaAnne
Brazil
Local time: 07:29
Portuguese to English
Point taken Nicole; I think I read it as the agency having the right to enforce the penalty but that (hopefully) any reasonable delay would be considered as such.
I posted these particular penalties as an example of what one agency states on their POs. Other agencies I work for have different penalties and some do not even mention penalties at all. Of course, each translator needs to accept and negotiate terms that s/he personally agrees with. We each have terms and conditions that... See more Point taken Nicole; I think I read it as the agency having the right to enforce the penalty but that (hopefully) any reasonable delay would be considered as such.
I posted these particular penalties as an example of what one agency states on their POs. Other agencies I work for have different penalties and some do not even mention penalties at all. Of course, each translator needs to accept and negotiate terms that s/he personally agrees with. We each have terms and conditions that we either will or will not accept, including specific rates, clauses in NDAs, CAT requirements, payment methods, formatting and the list goes on.
Regarding leeway, I absolutely agree. If both the translator and outsourcer have this leeway, then the vast majority of issues can be resolved without the end client being affected. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 03:29
English to German
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In memoriam | @NataliaAnne: Yes. | Apr 18, 2013 |
NataliaAnne wrote:
Point taken Nicole; I think I read it as the agency having the right to enforce the penalty but that (hopefully) any reasonable delay would be considered as such.
... each translator needs to accept and negotiate terms that s/he personally agrees with. We each have terms and conditions that we either will or will not accept, including specific rates, clauses in NDAs, CAT requirements, payment methods, formatting and the list goes on.
Regarding leeway, I absolutely agree. If both the translator and outsourcer have this leeway, then the vast majority of issues can be resolved without the end client being affected.
I hope everything works out nicely for Max Zalewski and his translator.
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NataliaAnne wrote:
I’ve just had a quick look at some of the POs I’ve been issued and many include specific penalties for late delivery, for example:
1 hour: 10%
3 hours: 20%
5 hours: 30%
1 day: 50%
2 days: 70%
Do they have matching penalties for late payment?
1 hour: +10% of invoice
3 hours: +20%
5 hours: +30%
1 day: +50%
2 days: +70%
I'd be praying for a late payment every month
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As for the TM problem, I was under the impression that the translator went TM-less through a CAT tool or just didn't use a CAT tool at all where agreed. If failure to use the TM means inconsistencies in the translation, I'd try to have the translator rectify those.
The TM was supposed to be used in the standard way, right? With matches popping up automatically in the editor where the TM is loaded? I'm asking because recently I've seen TM's included as reference materials where they ... See more As for the TM problem, I was under the impression that the translator went TM-less through a CAT tool or just didn't use a CAT tool at all where agreed. If failure to use the TM means inconsistencies in the translation, I'd try to have the translator rectify those.
The TM was supposed to be used in the standard way, right? With matches popping up automatically in the editor where the TM is loaded? I'm asking because recently I've seen TM's included as reference materials where they can't actually be used the normal way, which is a pain because looking every sentence up to check for a potential close match manually is a pain.
Max Zalewski wrote:
Thank you all for your posts, I will likely use a combination of all of your suggestions. In particular, I plan on asking the translator what he/she thinks is fair, and how they would treat a different translator if they were in my position. I don't want to be unjustly harsh, but I was not able to develop confidence with the client as a result of the translator's late delivery and I think that ought to have some sort of consequence. I will also show the translator the variety of opinions offered here and people who have sent me advice off of the post (thank you as well).
Kind regards,
Max
Sounds fair. You've got a sense of justice that's rare these days.
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Łukasz made a good point. You can deduct any financial damages that incurred on your side, such as paying an unexpected rush fee to your editor and/or surcharges for weekend work but I would be careful with "penalties".
Yup. Anglo-Saxon contract law doesn't like penalties. Continental allows for them but only if set up in the contract before the breach occurred.
The Misha wrote:
It is also immaterial whether you've suffered any actual damages as a result. This has nothing to do with the other party's failure to perform as agreed upon.
Actually, nope. What you describe only works in a legal system that allows the injured party to collect on a stipulated contractual penalty even in the absence of damage, which doesn't fly in some jurisdictions (contractual penalties act like liquidated damages but with an attached punitive component that cannot really act too much like a real punishment, either). You can't penalise your counterparty per se, with perhaps some exceptions for employers and employees. Just that a breach occurred doesn't give rise to a claim for a specific amount of money, that dakes damage or a preset contractual penalty. Thus, a missed deadline won't do a thing on its own. You could argue defects in a hired work, though, as far as the TM is concerned, however.
You control the purse strings here, which puts you in a unique position of being able to determine the penalties in this case as you see fit.
If he did that, he could get himself in a major breach of the contract, complete with a bunch of interest to pay. It is a misconception existing among some principals in service contracts that they can unilaterally shape everything about the relationship and act like monarchs but nope, it doesn't work like that at law even if few people sue non-payers over small amounts.
Take a nice discount - 20% sounds reasonable
I'd pull the same number out of my hat if I had to pull one.
[Edited at 2013-04-18 22:18 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-04-18 22:19 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-04-18 22:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Anglo-Saxon? | Apr 19, 2013 |
We're still implementing Anglo-Saxon contract law? You amaze me. I thought that died with King Harold in 1066 (ref: the Bayeux Tapestry).
Jenny
| | | | | Sorry, you've subsumed the Normans! | Apr 19, 2013 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
We're still implementing Anglo-Saxon contract law? You amaze me. I thought that died with King Harold in 1066 (ref: the Bayeux Tapestry).
Jenny
You did to the Normans what the Greeks did to the Romans (ref: the Byzantine Empire), therefore I'm sorry but you guys need to accept the authorship of common law. Besides, if we dig deep into the DNA, England is supposedly still a largely Keltic populace.
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