| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | What's your best rate? Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer
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| Every time I am asked for my best rate... | Sep 13, 2013 |
...I give them a rate 25% higher than my usual rate. If they are genuinely interested in my services, they will negotiate and I normally end up getting my usual rate; if they only want cheap translators, my "best rate" drives them away.
| | | | Elina Sellgren 
Finland
Local time: 18:29
Member (2013)
English to Finnish
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| My experience | Sep 13, 2013 |
Usually when I'm asked to give a best rate and I give a rate that I would accept for general texts, therefore usually the fastest to do, they reply with "your rate is a little high for us, would you accept a rate of [50 % or even lower what I offered] €/$?"
And if a job poster talks about a best rate, I never apply because it mostly means a client I don't want to work with. Of course clients exist who don't mention best rates and the rates they offer are still ridiculous, they're ... See more Usually when I'm asked to give a best rate and I give a rate that I would accept for general texts, therefore usually the fastest to do, they reply with "your rate is a little high for us, would you accept a rate of [50 % or even lower what I offered] €/$?"
And if a job poster talks about a best rate, I never apply because it mostly means a client I don't want to work with. Of course clients exist who don't mention best rates and the rates they offer are still ridiculous, they're just more clever.. I get the feeling that these 'best rate' people are in the third world countries and for them, the rate would be enough to make a living where they live. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:29
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Which countries, and how often? | Sep 13, 2013 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
"Send us your best rate" ('best' is often capitalized) is a phrase many of us are very familiar with.
Yes, I'm very familiar with it, but I now realise that I'm only familiar with it because others are familiar with it. I've done a search on my inbox from the past decade for "best rate", and found that the phrase was used a grand total of 24 times (by 21 different parties). Here are the results of the tiny survey of my inbox (month of mail, and location of the agency):
2013
Mar - Egypt
Jan - UK
2012
Jul - Hong Kong
Jan - (US, not an agency)
2011
Dec - Palestine
Dec - Tanzania
Jul - Giza
Jun - Singapore
Apr - UK
2010
Dec - Hong Kong (same agency as in 2012)
Dec - Iran
Dec - India
Nov - India
Oct - Malta
Jul - Germany
Jun - India
May - Egypt
Jan - India
2009
Apr - UK
2008
Oct - Iran (same agency as in 2010)
Sep - India
Jul - Hong Kong (same agency as in 2012)
Jun - Egypt
2006
Jun - India
Most of my work is from clients in Western countries where English is spoken, so for me the phrase is associated with non-native speakers of English. I wonder if non-natives realise how offensive the phrase can sound -- could it be that they use it in the belief that it is a businesslike phrase?
Samuel
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When asked about "best rate" (which doesn't actually happen so often to me), I usually respond with the Zen parable:
While walking through a market, Banzan overheard a conversation between a butcher and his customer.
"Give me the best piece of meat you have," said the customer.
"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."
At these words Banzan became enlightened.
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Suzan Hamer
Netherlands
Local time: 17:29
English
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Anton Konashenok wrote:
When asked about "best rate" (which doesn't actually happen so often to me), I usually respond with the Zen parable:
While walking through a market, Banzan overheard a conversation between a butcher and his customer.
"Give me the best piece of meat you have," said the customer.
"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."
At these words Banzan became enlightened.
Thanks, Anton. (Would that enlightenment--of others--was always so easy. Maybe it should read "At these words Banzan should have become enlightened....")
| | | | Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 18:29
English to Hebrew
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| Fee Versus Rate | Sep 13, 2013 |
Professionals have a fee. They use the rate (whatever it is in their context) for their own internal needs and process to come up with their per project fee.
Those contacting a professional and are clearly interested in the price alone are not likely to share any of the professional's professional and commercial values.
Generally, I think that the bidding platforms in themselves have detrimental effect on the profile of our profession, and I don't think that a professional sho... See more Professionals have a fee. They use the rate (whatever it is in their context) for their own internal needs and process to come up with their per project fee.
Those contacting a professional and are clearly interested in the price alone are not likely to share any of the professional's professional and commercial values.
Generally, I think that the bidding platforms in themselves have detrimental effect on the profile of our profession, and I don't think that a professional should support them regardless of the wording used.
And about those who reply with their best rates; there are no barriers to become a translator/interpreter, i.e. to wake one day and declare oneself as one. This means that there are as many unscrupulous alleged translators out there as there are intermediates. The bidding platforms just make it easier on them to find each other, with the only victims being some of the clients and the profession as a whole. ▲ Collapse
| | | | JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 17:29
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Agree, agree, agree | Sep 13, 2013 |
So many answers I want to quote here:
Tomás, that's a brilliant tactic!
ElinaSel - Yes, I too see "best rate" and simply don't bother because to me it means "rate that's so low you wouldn't accept it unless you were starving and you might think twice even then".
But the really interesting thing is this:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Most of my work is from clients in Western countries where English is spoken, so for me the phrase is associated with non-native speakers of English. I wonder if non-natives realise how offensive the phrase can sound -- could it be that they use it in the belief that it is a businesslike phrase?
Samuel
I'd been wondering this too, Samuel. I also see it as a phrase associated with non-native speakers (or at least with native speakers of a particular non-Western flavour of English) and feel that they probably do believe it's a useful phrase in business, and that it has an accepted meaning - which is unfortunately not what it conveys to many translators.
I don't think there's any solution other than to ignore it, but ironically it's an excellent example of why businesses need native speakers to get their message across effectively and without causing offence!
| | | | | Sounds insulting even for non-natives like me | Sep 13, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
"Send us your best rate" ('best' is often capitalized) is a phrase many of us are very familiar with. Yes, I'm very familiar with it, but I now realise that I'm only familiar with it because others are familiar with it. I've done a search on my inbox from the past decade for "best rate", and found that the phrase was used a grand total of 24 times (by 21 different parties). Here are the results of the tiny survey of my inbox (month of mail, and location of the agency): 2013 Mar - Egypt Jan - UK 2012 Jul - Hong Kong Jan - (US, not an agency) 2011 Dec - Palestine Dec - Tanzania Jul - Giza Jun - Singapore Apr - UK 2010 Dec - Hong Kong (same agency as in 2012) Dec - Iran Dec - India Nov - India Oct - Malta Jul - Germany Jun - India May - Egypt Jan - India 2009 Apr - UK 2008 Oct - Iran (same agency as in 2010) Sep - India Jul - Hong Kong (same agency as in 2012) Jun - Egypt 2006 Jun - India Most of my work is from clients in Western countries where English is spoken, so for me the phrase is associated with non-native speakers of English. I wonder if non-natives realise how offensive the phrase can sound -- could it be that they use it in the belief that it is a businesslike phrase? Samuel
Maybe it's because I don't outsource jobs to anybody, but still whenever I see a message with the words "best rate", I feel offended, and like ElinaSel, I never apply for that job.
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Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 11:29
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Healthy competition is fine | Sep 13, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
'Competitive rate' means you're supposed to compete for them.
I don't care to compete, at least not on price. I care to get out of that sort of competition.
Hi Lukasz,
I would suppose you actually are competing, but not in the "low" regions of our sector.
There's nothing wrong with healthy competition with great services. Price is certainly a factor, but never the only one. But best-rate postings separate price from all other factors. No matter how good you are, the "best rate/quote" poster wants you to work for as low a rate as possible. Just try it out.
B
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 11:29
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Breaking the cycle | Sep 13, 2013 |
JaneD wrote: Agree Agree Agree But the really interesting thing is this: Samuel Murray wrote:
Most of my work is from clients in Western countries where English is spoken, so for me the phrase is associated with non-native speakers of English. I wonder if non-natives realise how offensive the phrase can sound -- could it be that they use it in the belief that it is a businesslike phrase?
Samuel
I'd been wondering this too, Samuel. I also see it as a phrase associated with non-native speakers (or at least with native speakers of a particular non-Western flavour of English) and feel that they probably do believe it's a useful phrase in business, and that it has an accepted meaning - which is unfortunately not what it conveys to many translators. I don't think there's any solution other than to ignore it, but ironically it's an excellent example of why businesses need native speakers to get their message across effectively and without causing offence!
The fact that many who translate do bid and obviously give their best (lowest) rate shows that there is an understanding between the poster and the bidder, and that's unfortunate. It's an accepted phrase in the "low" regions of this sector, but it certainly is not a professional business-like phrase - there's nothing professional about it; and I don't think it has anything to do with being a non-native speaker/poster of English. A variant of the best rate offer is the offer that stipulates a budget in the lowest regions, and those also come from all over the world. And the posts are often directed to English native speakers. I know, for the posters and the bidders, the phrase means best rate in the sense of "most competitive" as in "lowest possible fee". Sometimes the request is accompanied by demands such as many years of experience, use of CAT tools, references, etc.
And still, the service providers keep on bidding, and still, the outsourcers keep on asking for the best rate. It's definitely a cycle. The more people get involved in it, the worse it is for the whole industry.
B
[Edited at 2013-09-13 18:08 GMT]
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 17:29
French to German
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| How do you actually know? | Sep 13, 2013 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Ignoring the issue is IMO not a good thing. Not when you see how these posters continue to ask for the "best" rate and people keep bidding with what they consider a very low rate.
How do you actually know what they are bidding? Just wondering...
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 11:29
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The request for the best rate itself is geared towards the amateur or the naive (IMO) | Sep 13, 2013 |
inkweaver wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Ignoring the issue is IMO not a good thing. Not when you see how these posters continue to ask for the "best" rate and people keep bidding with what they consider a very low rate.
How do you actually know what they are bidding? Just wondering...
Who do you think is bidding for such jobs? To ask someone for the best rate shows how unprofessional they are. They don't care about anything but getting someone who doesn't know what needs to be charged for the work.
They're asking for something unprofessional (IMO) and, unfortunately, for someone who is unprofessional (IMO).
I you're not convinced, look at some examples. Often, all you read is: need English-German translator, Send us your CV and best rate.
Now, who is going to answer that? Try applying or try reasoning with them. They will simply ignore you just like professionals ignore their offers.
But I believe we should help educate some who fall into their trap. Because it's a bad thing.
Since these kinds of posts have been increasing (as far as I see), it's easy to figure that there are people taking the bait; and it makes sense since there's certainly a lot of people out there who think they are or can be translators.
[Edited at 2013-09-13 18:09 GMT]
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 17:29
Spanish to English
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| Rate this... | Sep 13, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
I reject the notion that my 'best' rate is the cheapest I will work for. Moreover, I have a marked dislike of bald imperatives. Between these two, 'send us your best rate,' is probably the shortest way to nullify any prospect of collaboration.
I heartily agree. My biggest regret is that the perpetrators are almost always out of punching reach...
| | | | | My best rate is my bare rate | Sep 14, 2013 |
In other words, my best rate is what I charge net for translation alone, free from hefty PayPal fees, and relieved from hefty Brazilian interest rates (8.5%/month).
My standard rate is stated assuming payment via PayPal within two weeks from delivery with invoice.
My best rate assumes COD payment via wire transfer or any P2P contrivance (e.g. Moneygram, Western Union). This one is 16.6% cheaper than my standard rate.
As PayPal expressly forbids surcharging ... See more In other words, my best rate is what I charge net for translation alone, free from hefty PayPal fees, and relieved from hefty Brazilian interest rates (8.5%/month).
My standard rate is stated assuming payment via PayPal within two weeks from delivery with invoice.
My best rate assumes COD payment via wire transfer or any P2P contrivance (e.g. Moneygram, Western Union). This one is 16.6% cheaper than my standard rate.
As PayPal expressly forbids surcharging their "payers", and deducts 10% from my fees, I won't get this money anyway, so why not give it to my esteemed clients instead? PayPal cannot prevent me from giving discounts to anyone I want, especially when they are not at all involved in the transaction.
On the other hand, assuming I were completely broke, if clients wanted me to fund their operating capital, I'd have to borrow money from Brazilian banks, at 8.5% interest per month.
Smart clients - basically those having access to a calculator - quickly realize that if they borrowed money from banks in the USA, instead of doing so through me from banks in Brazil, they'd have to settle that loan 32 months later to spend (waste?) the same amount in interest.
Smart clients jump at it immediately. It doesn't cost me a thing. I do it entirely at the expense of greedy financial services providers; I'll be getting the same NET payment for my translation work. ▲ Collapse
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JaneD wrote:
I'd been wondering this too, Samuel. I also see it as a phrase associated with non-native speakers (or at least with native speakers of a particular non-Western flavour of English) and feel that they probably do believe it's a useful phrase in business, and that it has an accepted meaning - which is unfortunately not what it conveys to many translators.
I don't think there's any solution other than to ignore it, but ironically it's an excellent example of why businesses need native speakers to get their message across effectively and without causing offence!
Look, I know non-native speakers of English are to blame for everything down to power shortages and bad weather, but the phrase really sounds like a scion of the same family to which best prices and best offers belong. 'I'll give you my best prices,' and 'is that your best offer?' are perfectly native examples, it's just that 'best rates' sound considerably less natural.
[quote]Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
Hi Lukasz,
I would suppose you actually are competing, but not in the "low" regions of our sector.
There's nothing wrong with healthy competition with great services. Price is certainly a factor, but never the only one. But best-rate postings separate price from all other factors. No matter how good you are, the "best rate/quote" poster wants you to work for as low a rate as possible. Just try it out.
B
I'm all too familiar with the last part, Bernhard. Well, I guess everybody competes just by being in the market, having some rates, some reputation and some other factors, and being chosen or not by prospective clients, often as a result of some kind of comparison of options available. But I try to avoid competing directly, myself.
Also, a while ago I wondered if I wasn't actually losing potential business due to not having higher rates.
[Edited at 2013-09-14 03:28 GMT]
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