Should jobs with unreasonable deadlines not be permitted ? Thread poster: LilianNekipelov
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There was a slightly similar thread somewhere, not such a long time ago, but unfortunately I could not find it, plus it was dealing with some other issues as well.
I was just wondering if there should be a policy that if the deadline is absolutely unreasonable the poster should be asked to edit their post accordingly so it makes sense and they do not look like totally ignorant, laymen who do not know how long certain translation projects take.
I just recently saw an off... See more There was a slightly similar thread somewhere, not such a long time ago, but unfortunately I could not find it, plus it was dealing with some other issues as well.
I was just wondering if there should be a policy that if the deadline is absolutely unreasonable the poster should be asked to edit their post accordingly so it makes sense and they do not look like totally ignorant, laymen who do not know how long certain translation projects take.
I just recently saw an offer --15,000 to be done within 12 hours or so--less than 24 hours. Are they serious. Why would anybody be doing that-- wsasting jobs by setting unreasonable deadlines?
I think all rush jobs should be paid at least at a 150% rate, and the reason for it being a rush job should be stated--especially in some extreme cases. 15,000 is at least a week's worth of work for one translator and 24 hours for 7 translators. Both the translator's health and the quality of work suffer when the work is done in a hurry, under tremendous pressure.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 11:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 01:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| How about a suggestion? | Oct 3, 2014 |
LilianNekipelov wrote:
I was just wondering if there should be a policy that if the deadline is absolutely unreasonable the poster should be asked to edit their post accordingly so it makes sense and they do not look like totally ignorant, laymen who do not know how long certain translation projects take.
I agree that client education is important and that ProZ.com should take steps to inform clients of potential issues with their job posts. However, people don't all agree on what is reasonable (your example is pretty clear, but others are less clear), and one can't expect staff members to write little pieces of advice to outsourcers individually.
So my suggestion is this:
When a job poster posts a job, there should be an option (enabled by default) called "Find out what translators think of this job posting" (or something similarly inviting and unaggressive). Translators who have access to the job post then get a special link on the job post called "Tell the outsourcer what you think of this job", that links to a text entry field where the translator can leave a short, non-anonymous comment.
There should be explicit guidelines about what you're allowed to say to the job poster. The specific stated purpose of the the field is client education. Abusive, unkind or unfriendly comments should be seen as abuse and should (depending on the degree of severity) possibly lead to a translator's eventual expulsion from the site. Examples of comments may be to tell them the deadline is too short (don't use the word "unreasonable"), or that the price is too low (don't use the word "unfair"), or something else about the job that you think will help the client get a better service.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 11:44 GMT]
| | | | LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 19:27
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Yes, I think it is a great idea. | Oct 3, 2014 |
Yes, and then translators could say--the deadline seems too short, the rate seems too low, etc.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 12:00 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 00:27
Member (2007)
English
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| Agencies accept jobs here | Oct 3, 2014 |
That type of job clearly wouldn't be suitable for a single freelancer. But maybe the poster knows that.
Agencies not only use the site to outsource but also to quote for jobs. I don't consider that appropriate but it does happen. Maybe Proz.com should do something about that.
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LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 19:27
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | An agency--that can translate 15,000 into English, | Oct 3, 2014 |
from Russian in 6 hours--through MT? Let's be reasonable here or at least try.
Another valid question--why are the jobs so urgent, why are so many of them so urgent? Isn't it mostly because the companies are promising their clients too short, unreasonable deadlines either to attract them or to charge them more? Perhaps we should charge 150% of our average rates for rush jobs--even the more reasonable type--to stop this practice.
I am not trying to attack any comp... See more from Russian in 6 hours--through MT? Let's be reasonable here or at least try.
Another valid question--why are the jobs so urgent, why are so many of them so urgent? Isn't it mostly because the companies are promising their clients too short, unreasonable deadlines either to attract them or to charge them more? Perhaps we should charge 150% of our average rates for rush jobs--even the more reasonable type--to stop this practice.
I am not trying to attack any companies, but rater make things better: to prevent many jobs from going to waste.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 13:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | no reaction solves the problem | Oct 3, 2014 |
If nobody would react on job offers with such deadlines (or too low rates), there would be no problem with a low quality because of the tigh deadline. But appearantly agencies still try, because the have the experience that somebody will somehow manage it.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 19:27
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
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| Downward spiral | Oct 3, 2014 |
1995:
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated.
Agency A: We can return it in two weeks.
Client: I was hoping to get it back in two days.
Agency A: I'm sorry. We can't do that.
Client: Ok. I'll try somewhere else.
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated.
Agency B: We can return it in two weeks.
Client: I was hoping to get it back in two days.
Agency B: I'm sorry. We can't do that.
Cli... See more 1995:
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated.
Agency A: We can return it in two weeks.
Client: I was hoping to get it back in two days.
Agency A: I'm sorry. We can't do that.
Client: Ok. I'll try somewhere else.
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated.
Agency B: We can return it in two weeks.
Client: I was hoping to get it back in two days.
Agency B: I'm sorry. We can't do that.
Client: Ok. I'll try somewhere else.
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated.
Agency C: We can return it in two weeks.
Client: I was hoping to get it back in two days.
Agency C: I'm sorry. We can't do that.
Client: Ok. I guess I'll have to wait.
2014:
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated in two days.
Agency D: {If we don't take this job, some other company will} Ok. Not a problem.
{Scrambles to find translators}
Client: Great. No need to plan ahead next time. ▲ Collapse
| | | | LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 19:27
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Well--education is key, | Oct 3, 2014 |
Perhaps they should tell the client that it is impossible-physically impossible for one translator or even two to do it, and if text is translated by many different translators it will be incohesive in 90% of the cases--the style will be eclectic. Is that what the clients want--to pay hundreds of dollars for an eclectic style?
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 19:27
Member (2008)
French to English
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
2014:
Client: I have a 20,000-word project that I need translated in two days.
Agency D: {If we don't take this job, some other company will} Ok. Not a problem.
{Scrambles to find translators}
Client: Great. No need to plan ahead next time.
That is a fact.
And it's not necessarily going to change. In a world that is functioning at an ever-accelerating pace, not only are agency clients having to scramble, but their customers are too. Hey, in a week's time whole countries can be changed these days.
In such a scenario, which is becoming more frequent, I won't say I can't do it, I will just say what I can do, maybe 5,000 words in 2 days, if I'm not already booked. The client will have to find 4 or 5 translators. Quality, in terms of consistency, is their problem.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 18:37 GMT]
| | | | LilianNekipelov
United States
Local time: 19:27
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | The world is not going anywhere--it is going at the same speed as always, | Oct 4, 2014 |
the Planets are moving at the same speed--at least not significantly different. It is just that people are hyper, on 15 cups of coffee a day, gathering and improving (constantly changing things --sometimes without a good reason for it) It has to change, because this kind of work is not right. Things have to be done with care and attention to detail, plus work should not take most of your time and energy. It will eventually get back to normal as things do, or at least more of an average state, ... See more the Planets are moving at the same speed--at least not significantly different. It is just that people are hyper, on 15 cups of coffee a day, gathering and improving (constantly changing things --sometimes without a good reason for it) It has to change, because this kind of work is not right. Things have to be done with care and attention to detail, plus work should not take most of your time and energy. It will eventually get back to normal as things do, or at least more of an average state, or conveneint, as it should be, based on the laws of Nature.
[Edited at 2014-10-04 09:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:27
Serbian to English
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| Another element ... | Oct 4, 2014 |
...because this kind of work is not right. Things have to be done with care and attention to detail, plus work should not take most of your time and energy. ...
couldn't agree more
but good luck trying to explain that to those who think that translating is just shifting words, and not much different from shifting bricks by the kilo. (Luckily not all clients are like that)
But in all that there is another element, that is plain to see when it happens (a bit ... See more ...because this kind of work is not right. Things have to be done with care and attention to detail, plus work should not take most of your time and energy. ...
couldn't agree more
but good luck trying to explain that to those who think that translating is just shifting words, and not much different from shifting bricks by the kilo. (Luckily not all clients are like that)
But in all that there is another element, that is plain to see when it happens (a bit too often)
Go back through past job postings and you will find a worrying number of postings where a job that would be a bit borderline, but still reasonably feasible if started 6-8 hours after posting, gets turned into a job to be done within a ridiculously short deadline, because the agency allocated itself 3-4 days to wait for the lowest offer leaving only few hours for actually doing the translation. If you need a textbook example of a middleman doing a disservice to those at both end of the bargain, search no further.
Would it be feasible to limit the time allocated for selecting a translator? Maybe by putting it in proportion with the volume of work? Taking one or two weeks, or a whole month to select someone to translate "War and Peace" sounds reasonable and acceptable.
An agency giving itself 4 days to select a translator expected to do a 6 day job in one night is not even worth abusing. Just to be ignored. Or anyone thinks they could be educated?
End of rant. ▲ Collapse
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