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thanks. well noted
Thread poster: ELC GROUP

ELC GROUP
Czech Republic
English to Czech
+ ...
Jan 9, 2005

Hi everyone, thanks a lot for your input. well, i have to say what is said is obvious. so better to stop this discussion and get back to work. Wish you all a great day. Post is deleted.

[Edited at 2005-01-10 08:04]


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Bernadette Mora  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:35
English to Spanish
+ ...
Mavericks Jan 9, 2005

Dear ELCenter,

I think you should not worry about getting a bad report by this translator. I think if the translator can not meet the deadline, he must inform you the same moment you inform him about the deadline and not five days before the delivery date. It's his fault and you don't have to pay if the project has not been performed according to the terms and contidions on the PO.
I never perform big projects within tight deadlines because the final result can be awful. I like being honest and being considered for further projects. I think a good way to get feedback from a translator is to get in touch with agencies/customers he usually works for.
Cheers,
Bernadette


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:35
English to German
+ ...
No BlueBoard entry permitted in this case Jan 9, 2005

Hi,
(Sorry, can't address you by name...)
if we do not pay him (and we are not going to) we will see report on us being a bad payer!

Not on the ProZ.com BlueBoard. See the FAQ:


If you have worked on a project with a client but were late or otherwise negligent in delivering work, you may not make an entry for that client. The Blue Board should also not be used to threaten outsourcers.


Please make sure to clearly communicate the problems to the translator. Should he/she still post a comment, please contact a Jobs moderator.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 14:35
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
- Jan 9, 2005

ELCenter wrote:
if we do not pay him (and we are not going to) we will see report on us being a bad payer!


You are wrong here. Please take a look at the excerpt from the BlueBoard rules:

-------------------------------------------------------------
2. What are the conditions for making an entry concerning your likelihood of working again with an outsourcer?

You may only make entries for clients with whom you have worked on a project and to whom you have delivered work on time and without complaints related to quality. You may not make entries solely on the basis of negotations or other preliminary interactions.

If you have worked on a project with a client but were late or otherwise negligent in delivering work, you may not make an entry for that client. The Blue Board should also not be used to threaten outsourcers.
http://www.proz.com/faq/blue_board_agency#blueboard_clientreview

--------------------------------------------------------------



[Edited at 2005-01-09 22:34]


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 15:35
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Bad business habits on both sides Jan 9, 2005

It's partly your fault. You believed in test-translations and were let down. In future you should take only projects for which you have proven translators available, which are not cheap. New translators should be tested by giving them small but normally payed jobs. Building up a team of translators takes time.
All those agencies from low-cost countries trying to build a market share by offering cheap translations to their customers are in danger to get disappointed once in a while.
Feel free to send your experience with this particular translator to other agencies. Perhaps there are mailing lists for agencies, however Proz.com is a site for freelance translators mainly.
If your other translators are satisfied with you you don't have to fear bad marks from one individual.


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ELC GROUP
Czech Republic
English to Czech
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
post is deleted Jan 9, 2005



[Edited at 2005-01-10 08:05]


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
some comments Jan 9, 2005

ELCenter wrote:

1. And again we have problems with people coming from this site! is there any way we can report such people?

2a. good report on proz, KudoZ points, etc....

2b. now we thing he used someone else to do it!

3. We send a PO with dates on when we should get files done.
5 days left - translator sends us an e-mail saying that he can not do a project and needs ONE MORE MONTH!!!!!!!!!!

4. We want to share info about this maverick! if we do not pay him (and we are not going to) we will see report on us being a bad payer! If we do not report him there will be other companies having problems with him.

5. There must be a referal system on Proz when agency can go on profile and rate translator. It might be a system where only good reports could be shown, but where we can see who is a reference and contact if needed.



I took the liberty of numbering your comments above so I can refer to them.

First of all, sorry to hear about your problems.

1. The problem you describe seems to be an accumulation of factors that might well have been compounded by the need to get a translator for a complex job that had to be completed at short notice.

2a. Those are just guidelines, in the end they prove nothing. The only proof of a good translator has to be obtained, unfortunately, over time.

2b. That could be very hard to prove. Did the quality of his work seem to indicate this? One way or the other, with tests you have little choice but to give people the benefit of the doubt.

3. If the translator had taken on the job, it's a bit strange that he should ask for 1 month, when in theory he had 5 days left, as that is a totally unreasonable extension. Maybe, however, the deadline was just too tight? Or you/he had underestimated the difficulty?

4. If you use ProZ a lot, which seems to be implied by your email, then one bad rating won't affect your possibilities of getting other translators, especially as you have the option of rebutting his comments.

5. I am not entirely in favour of such a system, although I know it's in the offing, so I await it with interest. It wouldn't affect me personally very much, as I work for hardly any agencies on a sporadic basis (preferring to work for the same few regularly), and I rarely work through ProZ. That said, on principle I think it could be far more damaging to freelancer individuals than the BB for large agencies with many methods for obtaining translators.


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Juan Jacob  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 07:35
French to Spanish
+ ...
What I do: 1, 2, 3, 4. Jan 10, 2005

Please excuse my very poor English writing.
This is what I do when I have to put a project "in new hands" or when I need to enlarge my translator's staff:

1. I put a test on the potential translator (a big one, unpaid). Of course, I must know him in person... nothing by Internet, sorry. If he passes it...
2. I give him the translation, less paid.
3. If he, for some reason, doesn't meat my expectations anymore, out he is and I must solve the problem with someone else, or myself.
4. If he's a good translator, I keep it forever, well paid.

I mean, ELCenter, we are "businessmen", aren't we? As any other, period. We must hire people to do the job for us, and well done. If they don't fit, there's the door. Our clients don't give a d... about our "workers", doesn't they? So, it's OUR responsability to make shure that people we hire are reliable. I don't understand how is it possible that you are complaining about somebody who is working for you: that's company's confidential information that you should not publish... particularly, it gives me a bad opinion about your company's practicies, sorry.


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xxx00000000
English to French
+ ...
A bit off topic Jan 10, 2005

ELCenter wrote:
econdly, being in so called "cheap country" (i wonder if you have even been to any other country if you call Prague with GDP of 40% higher than EU average a cheap place") does not mean that companies pay low rates - clients pay high rates for good work and charge clients for a good work. clients can be based in any part of the world, even on a Moon. Probably you have to study a market a little bit more to know where rates are coming from.

the last and not the least: you probably missed what i wrote - HIGH rating on Proz and lots of Kudoz points! So this person is not cheap and according to the Proz is a very well known here![/quote]

Hi Mala --

I really empathize with your current problem. That translator acted in a totally irresponsible and unprofessional manner. But perhaps you make a little too much of the Kudoz. Kudoz can be fun when things are quiet, but you have to realize that to get a really high score, it's necessary to have nothing else to do most of the time. Good translators who have a lot of work don't have much time for Kudoz.

On another topic, it is unfortunately true there is a perception out there that you are a cheap agency. Not so much because of your location but because you seem to be fishing for low rates. Perhaps you could do something about that if you want quality translators.

I have seen several of your ads and never sent my resume because I don't compete in the rock-bottom market and have stopped bothering with agencies who don't state their rates upfront -- unless they insist on high quality (with the assumption that they expect to pay for it).

Knowing I was wrong all along about you, I will send you my resume next time I see a job in my pair.

All the best,
Esther


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Sara Freitas
France
Local time: 14:35
French to English
Why would you ever consider using a new translator on a big, urgent job? Jan 10, 2005

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

New translators should be tested by giving them small but normally payed jobs. Building up a team of translators takes time.


I agree with Heinrich completely. This just isn't good business sense. I would never dream of farming out a big, urgent job to someone I didn't know well.

I don't think your problem has anything to do with Proz.com. You took a gamble and you lost. Whether you found the translator on this site or somewhere else isn't the issue, in my opinion.

Better luck next time!

Regards,

Sara


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Lindsay Sabadosa  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:35
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
A little further off-topic Jan 16, 2005

[quote]Esther Pfeffer wrote:
Kudoz can be fun when things are quiet, but you have to realize that to get a really high score, it's necessary to have nothing else to do most of the time. Good translators who have a lot of work don't have much time for Kudoz.

Hey, not that I have a high score, but leave room for us insomniacs who thrive on late night Kudoz questions. For some it's Minesweeper or Solitaire, I like my Kudoz. But you are totally right that an agency shouldn't judge a translator by Kudoz. I'm all for an initial small, paid project with a reasonable deadline (i.e. not two hours) as the best way to test someone's ability.


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thanks. well noted

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