| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Approaching a former agency client Thread poster: Anna Valjakka
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Anna Valjakka 
Finland
Local time: 22:39
French to Finnish
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TOPIC STARTER | The client remains "their client" forever | Sep 13, 2016 |
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
Even if you did a great job, it is the agency which gets the applaus from the end client, not you.
I know, but one can also ask how ethical that is then...
SusieSmith wrote:
There have been times when I have done a LOT of work for one small company via a translation agency. In many ways it would seem to make sense for me to work for them directly - they like my work, they are probably paying the agency far more money than is ever passed on to the actual translator, I can discuss issues with the client rather than through a middleman.
On the other hand, the agency got to them first and may be providing many other services or benefits I know nothing about. So we just have to accept it's their client.
I don't know how many people read my second comment, but I was primarily thinking of a situation where it's NOT their client any more. For example in case of this particular agency I was thinking about it was just one project of ~4000 words in June - I might not hear from them ever again, and who knows if the agency even exists in a year for example? Whatever the outcome of that company's and agency's relation, that particular company will remain "blocked" for me.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Requested by user. |
Anna Valjakka wrote: Robert Rietvelt wrote:
Even if you did a great job, it is the agency which gets the applaus from the end client, not you. I know, but one can also ask how ethical that is then... SusieSmith wrote:
There have been times when I have done a LOT of work for one small company via a translation agency. In many ways it would seem to make sense for me to work for them directly - they like my work, they are probably paying the agency far more money than is ever passed on to the actual translator, I can discuss issues with the client rather than through a middleman.
On the other hand, the agency got to them first and may be providing many other services or benefits I know nothing about. So we just have to accept it's their client. I don't know how many people read my second comment, but I was primarily thinking of a situation where it's NOT their client any more. For example in case of this particular agency I was thinking about it was just one project of ~4000 words in June - I might not hear from them ever again, and who knows if the agency even exists in a year for example? Whatever the outcome of that company's and agency's relation, that particular company will remain "blocked" for me.
Dear Anna, let me answer your question on my thread: "Even if you did a great job, it is the agency which gets the applaus from the end client, not you.[/quote]
I know, but one can also ask how ethical that is then..."
Very ethical! The end client contacted the agency, not you, and the agency contacted you! It was YOU who decided voluntarily to do the translation, or did they blackmail or forced you in some other way to take on the job?
I am really surprised about your comment.
[Edited at 2016-09-13 20:41 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-09-13 20:43 GMT]
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Please. Just read the contracts and stick to its terms. Ethics doesn't play any role here.
[Edited at 2016-09-14 09:32 GMT]
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 21:39
French to English
| even if the agency doesn't exist any more... | Sep 14, 2016 |
Anna Valjakka wrote:
As in the current situation, the translation agency is dictating you the conditions and prices if you ever (or within the time frame defined in the NDA clauses) wish to work again with a specific client. They are sort of "blocking" the client for you, legally and/or morally, and nevertheless the actual work in your language pair might end up to another translator of theirs (for whatever reason) for the rest of the given time frame or your working life, while you yourself are sitting at your desk waiting for another project to pop into your mail box. The client might as well change their agency or even switch to another direct translator of your language pair, which will never come to your knowing either, so the translation work relevant to you might as well end up to anyone else (with a higher or lower pricing and with whatever conditions), but it won't be you, who have delivered quality translations for them in the past, if you won't comply with the low prices and poor conditions required by the translation agency you started with (as said, the client might have a new outsourcer anyway), and who would actually charge less of the work than what the agency they're working with currently does. So it might be a dubious practice, even though possibly beneficial to both the translator and the end client. This is just my stream of consciousness though and there might something I'm not taking into account.
It sounds to me that you're feeling bitter because of agencies paying you very little and hogging markets. So it's definitely a good move to start looking for direct clients!
Apart from considerations such as not wanting to deal with 15 different translators for 15 different languages, don't forget that you know nothing of the relationship between the agency and their client. You may have produced some sterling work, but you have no idea whether you did everything in your pair for that client. Let's suppose Agency X doesn't even exist any more so there are no longer any moral or legal considerations binding you. If you were to mention that you had previously worked for Agency X, they could well turn round and say "sure, there's a reason why they went bust: some of the translations they sent us were really poor". No point trying to prove it wasn't your work that was poor, they have already written you off.
| | | | | That is not the point | Sep 14, 2016 |
Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
Please. Just read the contracts and stick to its terms. Ethics doesn't play any role here.
[Edited at 2016-09-14 09:32 GMT]
Sign it or don't sign it, but when you make a deal, live up to it. That is ethics.
[Edited at 2016-09-14 16:43 GMT]
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Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
Please. Just read the contracts and stick to its terms. Ethics doesn't play any role here.
Exactly, Álvaro. I entirely agree. If contracts had no value, then "apaga y vámonos" (last one please turn the lights off), as we say in Spain.
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
Please. Just read the contracts and stick to its terms. Ethics doesn't play any role here. Exactly, Álvaro. I entirely agree. If contracts had no value, then "apaga y vámonos" (last one please turn the lights off), as we say in Spain.
It is all about your own ethics. I live by them, regardless of the third party.
[Edited at 2016-09-15 22:02 GMT]
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| What's the point? | Sep 16, 2016 |
Besides the obvious ethical problem, I'm not even sure there's much of a strategic reason to do this. The hardest part about getting a new direct client is getting in contact with the person in charge of vendor selection at a moment when they need/are receptive to your services. Unless you plan on sending emails with subject lines that read "I used to work for you but you didn't know it" (which, given the legal issues, would not be a good idea), you're going to have to do all the same hard work ... See more Besides the obvious ethical problem, I'm not even sure there's much of a strategic reason to do this. The hardest part about getting a new direct client is getting in contact with the person in charge of vendor selection at a moment when they need/are receptive to your services. Unless you plan on sending emails with subject lines that read "I used to work for you but you didn't know it" (which, given the legal issues, would not be a good idea), you're going to have to do all the same hard work that you would have done for a brand new direct client lead--cold calling or writing to the client to find the sales department, or finding a way to connect with them via social media or events. Even if you finally do get in touch with whoever you need, you'll raise instant red flags in half of their minds when you tell them that you've worked with them before; some of the rest will inevitably call your old agency client to ask for references, which will bring about a whole cascade of fun events.
So rather than spending the same amount of time to put yourself into a situation that gives you, at best, only a marginally higher chance at success for the same amount of work, why not invest that same time into calling other companies in the same field who you've never worked for before? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Another thing - don't let agencies dictate rates and conditions without a fight! | Sep 16, 2016 |
I work with agencies for the reasons others have mentioned. Then I am free to do what I do best - translate.
I don't have the patience and diplomacy to deal with direct clients. A lot of the end-clients I enjoy working for subject-wise would never dream of working directly with someone like me - they need the wider services of an agency. However, there are good agencies, and there are mere brokers who send you a text and expect you to do all the hard work anyway.
You sug... See more I work with agencies for the reasons others have mentioned. Then I am free to do what I do best - translate.
I don't have the patience and diplomacy to deal with direct clients. A lot of the end-clients I enjoy working for subject-wise would never dream of working directly with someone like me - they need the wider services of an agency. However, there are good agencies, and there are mere brokers who send you a text and expect you to do all the hard work anyway.
You suggested that agencies dictate rates - don't let them! You may have to compromise, but you should never accept low rates without asking for a raise.
Don't let them dictate other terms either. Many agencies use portals to send texts, protect security and make their workflow more efficient (or so they tell you). In some cases these work fine - One or two of my favourite clients use them. Others are set up to be so secure that I can't operate them... or at least not without wasting a lot of time. I send these agencies a mail - I don't spend a lot of time on it, but I explain why I avoid working with them. Without feedback, they will probably not improve! Of course, I send positive feedback to the good agencies too - and that pays in terms of getting more work on my terms.
You are an independent freelancer, not an employee forced to accept whatever they dictate!
Another compromise is to look for small agencies and reliable colleagues who outsource. Then you get some of the advantages of working with direct clients. Small outsourcers negotiate rates with you, and they will often negotiate other terms to suit you. They know about translating as well as managing clients, unlike many PMs at big agencies, who are not professional translators and do not always understand what is involved.
Keep looking for better clients, but the best way to 'catch' and keep them is to build up a reputation as a well-qualified and reliable person. They are often critical about ethics, and need translators they can trust with their confidential documents (or their end-clients' documents). Let them know who you are and what you specialise in - and show you are willing to cooperate with them as a professional on equal terms. That is often an advantage for both sides.
If you can handle direct clients, good luck. But although you can charge higher rates, you certainly have to earn them! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:39
German to English
+ ...
| Over-simplifying the situation | Sep 19, 2016 |
Anna Valjakka wrote:
As in the current situation, the translation agency is dictating you the conditions and prices if you ever (or within the time frame defined in the NDA clauses) wish to work again with a specific client. They are sort of "blocking" the client for you, legally and/or morally, and nevertheless the actual work in your language pair might end up to another translator of theirs (for whatever reason) for the rest of the given time frame or your working life, while you yourself are sitting at your desk waiting for another project to pop into your mail box. The client might as well change their agency or even switch to another direct translator of your language pair, which will never come to your knowing either, so the translation work relevant to you might as well end up to anyone else (with a higher or lower pricing and with whatever conditions), but it won't be you, who have delivered quality translations for them in the past, if you won't comply with the low prices and poor conditions required by the translation agency you started with (as said, the client might have a new outsourcer anyway), and who would actually charge less of the work than what the agency they're working with currently does. So it might be a dubious practice, even though possibly beneficial to both the translator and the end client. This is just my stream of consciousness though and there might something I'm not taking into account.
However with all the negative feedback I received for the initial post this is definitely not going to be my starting point in building my client basis. I'm just wondering aloud if the status quo is bit ridiculous, as it continuously blocks the translators from getting a better pay from an increasing number of end clients, some of which would also pay less did they work with freelancers.
As you said, there might be something you are not taking into account, and I think there is. I feel you are over-simplifying things. Yes, there are cases where the agency is not adding value and is essentially just "blocking" you from higher rates and direct access to the client. But in other cases, many cases even, the agency is doing all the work that for a freelancer is "dead time", i.e. time you spend on tasks that do not directly result in money in your pocket. They are marketing, they are cultivating relationships to generate more work, and they are spending lots of "dead time" holding clients' hands through the process. Some end clients are incredibly difficult to work with, they are demanding, they are disorganised, they are rude, they are totally clueless about the translation process and do not care about it anyway. The agency cultivates the relationship, keeps the client coming back, and acts as a buffer between you and the jerk who spent 5 months writing the report but has only sent it for translation now and needs it back in 24 hours, oh and he needs it in 3 different languages, too, and he doesn't want to pay for proofreading but he will spend the next two days after delivery complaining about a missing comma that he found and questioning the quality of the work. The agency arranges proofreading, quality checks etc. The agency arranges for DTP. The agency defends you if the client suddenly decides there are mistakes in the translation even when there aren't. The agency sometimes has to go visit the client or hold conference calls to smooth things over when a project goes wrong for some reason -- even if the thing that went wrong is only in the client's mind and not actually reality. (These are all things a GOOD agency does, anyway)
If you are working for agencies right now that are paying low rates and insisting on poor working conditions, I suspect that you REALLY do not want their end clients, because in all likelihood they are clients who are convinced by the price alone. In my experience, these are the clients who want it cheap, fast and high quality all at once. And we all know how impossible that triad is.
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