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EU UID-Nr/EU Tax no
Thread poster: TRADL

TRADL
France
Local time: 11:20
English to French
+ ...
Apr 28, 2005

Hi everyone,

I've been asked now for the 2nd time round by German clients for the above number but living in the UK, I don't think freelancers have got such a number. Or have they? All that I can think of using (as the IR does) is my NI number. Is that what others do? Thanks for your help!

TRADL


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Burrell  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:20
Member (2004)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Unique tax number Apr 28, 2005

Never heard of it before. How about your unique tax number? I should think that is the closest to EU tax number you can get.

Cheers,
Burrell


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
NI number Apr 28, 2005

I always put my NI number on my invoices (I have the same problem with Dutch agencies).

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Ian M-H
United States
Local time: 05:20
German to English
+ ...
"EU tax number" Apr 28, 2005

As far as I know there's still no such thing as an "EU tax number", but if you're registered for VAT then your clients may mean your VAT registration number.

Otherwise, your UK NI number is a unique identifier and would - as suggsted above - probably satisfy the requirements of bureaucratic minds...


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Beth M F Garcia  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:20
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
UTR Apr 28, 2005

When you registered as a sole trader and commenced paying your Class 4 Tax you recieved a UTR or Unique Taxpayer Reference. (Check your paperwork)In fact, they send you a letter asking you to use this number when dealing with them. I always use this number on my invoices and my clients have never requested anything else....

Check here:

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1074476073

or Google it.



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Beth M F Garcia  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:20
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Something else to ponder...... Apr 28, 2005

I am not 100% sure about this but I am looking into it. In the UK you can be a sole trader and even if you do not reach the £60,000 threshold you can volunteer to sign up for VAT. This will give you a VAT number which will make your German clients happy. Now as you don’t have to be a company of any sort so you don’t have to pay corporate tax etc., but you will have to keep VAT accounts as well. But I am trying to figure out whether this is beneficial or not. I mean I pay out VAT for everything and never see it again. (software, hardware, memberships, fees, telephone,etc….) It shouldn’t be a problem with clients as they are used to paying freelancers VAT anyway……

This seems to be a bit off post, but basically I mention it because this is one way of getting a VAT number.


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xxxTekkie
English to German
+ ...
You should have VAT number when doing business with other EU countries Apr 28, 2005

If you don't have a VAT number:

(1) you will have to pay the VAT applying in the respective foreign country when ordering goods or services from other EU countries,

(2) will have to add your British VAT of 20% (?) to the grand totals when invoicing your customers outside of Great Britain. Your non-British clients won't like that.

I can only recommend to obtain a VAT number because it simplifies active and passive invoicing across EU member countries.


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Beth M F Garcia  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:20
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I don't think so..... Apr 28, 2005

Tekkie wrote:

If you don't have a VAT number:

(1) you will have to pay the VAT applying in the respective foreign country when ordering goods or services from other EU countries,



You have to pay it for any goods and services in the UK too.



(2) will have to add your British VAT of 20% (?) to the grand totals when invoicing your customers outside of Great Britain. Your non-British clients won't like that.


I pretty sure it is 17.5%, but whichever it is this applies to customers inside the UK and in the EU, just like the rest of the EU.
The non-UK (and UK)customers should not really care since they pay it anyway, whether the rate is higher or lower from the UK is indifferent as it gets sorted out when they do their accounst. (Whether they owe or are owed)


I can only recommend to obtain a VAT number because it simplifies active and passive invoicing across EU member countries.


Yes, but does it simplify our invoicing....... and not only that, even though you can volunteer to pay VAT to get a VAT number, to do this they ask you for a business account in the name of your company (In the UK you can be a sole trader and trade as XXXXX.) This opens a whole new can of worms.....



[Edited at 2005-04-28 13:37]


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:20
Flemish to English
+ ...
The final customer always pays VAT. Apr 28, 2005

The end-customer always has to pay VAT, whether inside or outside the country where you live, but if (s)he has a VAT-number, (s)he can offset this in his VAT-declaration.
If an end-client lives in Germany for example,(s)he will have to pay the German VAT to the VAT-office, even if (s)he has a VAT-number.
In the UK, there is a £60,000 VAT-treshold for goods and a £70,000 treshold for online services.



[Edited at 2005-04-28 14:21]


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xxxTekkie
English to German
+ ...
Foreign VAT cannot be deducted in Germany Apr 28, 2005

kuletatz wrote:

The non-UK (and UK) customers should not really care since they pay it anyway, whether the rate is higher or lower from the UK is indifferent as it gets sorted out when they do their accounts. (Whether they owe or are owed


The above doesn't apply to Germany. Because a British software vendor didn't have a VAT identification number, I had to pay their VAT that I was unable to deduct from the VAT amounts cashed in from my few German customers.

This year, I had a VAT tax audit (Umsatzsteuerprüfung) performed by my local tax office, and the people there as well as my VAT tax levy received recently told me so.

Everybody doing business with member countries of the European Union should have a VAT identification number to avoid problems.

By the way, I don't understand why so many British are so stubborn with respect to pan-European issues. Many of them seem to think that they live in a world of their own.


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TRADL
France
Local time: 11:20
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Apr 28, 2005

for all your input...no need to discuss VAT any further! I'm no where near the threshold!

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Beth M F Garcia  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:20
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Threshold for online services. Apr 28, 2005

Williamson wrote:

In the UK, there is a £60,000 VAT-treshold for goods and a £70,000 treshold for online services.

Edited at 2005-04-28 14:21]


Would our services be considered e-services? I remember reading something regarding the definition of e-services as being things such as software downloads, online gambling and betting, etc.

Do you have any more info on this?

I do know that there if you fall under this category you can use the online service with Customs and Excise to file your VAT declaration.


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Beth M F Garcia  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:20
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I agree Apr 28, 2005

Tekkie wrote:

Everybody doing business with member countries of the European Union should have a VAT identification number to avoid problems.



Hi Tekkie,

The problem is that for the sole trader which most freelancers are it posseses to many problems in the UK. If all of our regulations etc. were the same as in the EU then I agree 100% with you, but it is not that easy unfortunately.



By the way, I don't understand why so many British are so stubborn with respect to pan-European issues. Many of them seem to think that they live in a world of their own.



I'm actually half Spanish/half American and have lived in the UK for 5 years. I know exactly what you mean, but let me tell you something worse. The UK has a habit of adhereing to the regulations that are beneficial to the UK govt, UK big companies etc. BUT for example when it comes to other EU regulations protecing the employee, they ignore it. I have seen some company, social, etc. policies that have amazed me, and what I really don't understand is how the UK people take it.......


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:20
Italian to English
+ ...
Yes, use your NI number Apr 28, 2005

Tekkie wrote:

The above doesn't apply to Germany. Because a British software vendor didn't have a VAT identification number, I had to pay their VAT that I was unable to deduct from the VAT amounts cashed in from my few German customers.

This year, I had a VAT tax audit (Umsatzsteuerprüfung) performed by my local tax office, and the people there as well as my VAT tax levy received recently told me so.

Everybody doing business with member countries of the European Union should have a VAT identification number to avoid problems.

By the way, I don't understand why so many British are so stubborn with respect to pan-European issues. Many of them seem to think that they live in a world of their own.


Please could I request that you take a look at the facts (it is not necessary to have a VAT number in the UK if you earn under GBP 60,000 pa, neither do we pay 20% VAT but 17.5%) before answering with misleading info about VAT when this is of little use to the original poster.

I can't say I appreciate your last comment.

Full details here.

Yes, Tradl, I give my NI number to clients and they are perfectly happy with it.



[Edited at 2005-04-28 18:27]


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:20
Flemish to English
+ ...
Supplement to VAT Notes No 1 2005 Apr 28, 2005

The VAT-treshold has actually increased from £58,000-£60,000.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024154&propertyType=document
VAT in the UK: 17,5%.
The VAT-system works according to the principle of report of levy. Somewhere at the end of the line, somebody always pays VAT.
To opt out of VAT means no deduction, but a hell of a lot less paperwork and no fines if you make a small mistake in your declaration.
By the way, Britain is not the only country with a high treshold
In Austria : EUR 22.000 (you may exceed EUR 25.300 once in a five year period without registering)
Germany EUR 50.000 (if the previous year's turnover was over EUR 16.620 you must pay VAT regardless of your turnover)
Ireland EUR 25.500 for providers of services, EUR 51.000 for providers of goods.


[Edited at 2005-04-28 18:33]


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