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Test translation - tell the agency that most of it was found on Proz?
Thread poster: Sonja Tomaskovic
Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:38
English to German
+ ...
Feb 5, 2003

Hi there,



I am currently facing a dilemma.



An agency, I have tried to work with several times before, has finally contacted me and asked me to do a test translation.



The translation sample is divided into three parts, of which one is quite technical (specifications of a device).

Since these specifications turned out to be very complex I tried to resolve some of the problems by doing a research on the Internet - and on Proz, of course.



What I found is that actually the whole text has already been translated through various KudoZ questions.



I really want to work with this agency, since I have already tried to do so several times, and never got an answer. Now that they have finally reacted on my applications, can I just turn this opportunity down by not submitting the sample?



On the other side, I do not want to cheat on them, and submitting this sample is what I would call a cheat.



What can I do now? Tell them that I found the test translation on Proz? What about those that have already submitted this test, with or without the help of these KudoZ questions? Wouldn\'t be fair if the agency decided to turn them down due to the information I provided.



Ask them for a different test translation? What can I tell them if they ask why?



I\'d appreciate your opinion on this.



Thanks and regards,



Sonja

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-05 09:14]


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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:38
English to Italian
Hi Sonja Feb 5, 2003

Just do the test without referring to the answers you found on Proz. This way, you won\'t be cheating, like the others....



Giovanni


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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:38
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
If it was that easy... Feb 5, 2003

..., I would do so, Giovanni.



How can you not refer to something that you have read and that is somewhere in your mind?



If I had not done any research, I wouldn\'t know these answers, but now that I have, these answers are all up in my head. Just try to do it completely different? These are very technical terms, and I can\'t just find \"another\" translation for them.



Thanks anyway.



Regards,



Sonja ,)


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:38
Dutch to English
+ ...
Test Translation Feb 5, 2003

I think the agency uses the same test for everybody and, therefore, you should inform them that it has been compromised. It would not reflect your ability but how good you are on the web! I would try not to mention who has been asking the questions but I do think you can say how you know it has been compromised. Difficult position to be in!



I wouldn\'t say that asking a question through KudoZ was necessarily cheating. You are allowed to use all the resources available and that includes KudoZ.



People often forget that you don\'t only ask a KudoZ question because you don\'t know the answer. Sometimes you just want confirmation that you are right or looking in the right place!



Good luck!


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OneDocument, S.L.
Spain
Local time: 22:38
Member (2004)
French to Spanish
+ ...
What about dictionaries? Feb 5, 2003

Hi,



Well, we the translators must use every resource we have to get the translation done. Kudoz is just one of them. Is anyone going to call you cheater because you have to look up a word on a dictionary? That\'s the way we learn. We translate new terms we did not know, and then they become part of our skills.



In my opinion, our duty is translate x words in x days. How we manage to do so... it\'s something only we have to know!



Regards



Mig

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-05 09:49]


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Marisapad  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:38
English to Italian
+ ...
It also depends on how serious the agency is Feb 5, 2003

I hope this is not your case, but there is an Agency, based in the UK and with offices throughout Europe, that contacts thousands of translators and have them make a test.



Of course only a few of them are then positively judged, the other ones are kept \"...as a reserve\" or are told \"... try again\".



I actually don\'t know why they continue recruiting while they already have thousand translators in their database, but rumors say they are trying to sell something to this huge number of contacts....



So, if you are absolutely sure of the seriousness of the agency, you should be serious as well, but it is probably worthy to check why their test is so largely known by everybody....



Good luck!


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sylver  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:38
English to French
whole doc Feb 5, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-05 09:46, mig_2kk wrote:

Hi,



Well, we the translators must use every resource we have to get the translation done. Kudoz is just one of them. Is anyone going to call you cheater because you have to look up a word on a dictionary? That\'s the way we learn. We translate new terms we did not know, and then they become part of our skills.



In my opinion, our duty is translate x words in x days. How we manage to do so... it\'s something only we have to know!



Regards



Mig





We are talking about a complete document, not just some words here and there. And unless your client is called \"webster\" you won\'t find the whole text in a dictionary.



Back to the question, if I was in that same situation, I would request the agency to send in a different test and explain them their previous test was compromised.



They will certainly credit you for honesty, and probably send you a new test. From there, good luck to you.



I wouldn\'t worry about other translators turning in a test which is not really their own. If they translate it on their own, their translation will be different from that on Proz, unless the test was a very simple one with a straight forward content, which is seldom the case.

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bergazy  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 22:38
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
Why not? Feb 5, 2003

Dear Sonja,

over 25000 skilled professionals use Proz every day without any shame...so, I don\'t understand your hesitation. Use it, take the job and feel fine.


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Alexander Chisholm  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:38
Italian to English
+ ...
Proz is a resource like lots of others. Feb 5, 2003

If you were working on a real job for them, you would research it and use any of the resources you had available in order to complete it.



You did this with the test translation and I don\'t see why you should treat that any differently from any other job.



The fact that most (or all) of the answers were already on proz, probably means that they are using an old test - as someone added in a comment - but even in the case of a real job, you will find words and phrases already present on this and other translation websites.



I would be tempted not to do anything. Theyt sent you a test, you completed it to the best of your ability and returned it to them.



Lets also be honest about this; the answers posted on this site are not always correct. Some people, in a grab for points, submit answers that are sometimes next to useless. You still have to use your skill and discretion as a translator to sort out the information you receive and compile the job for your client. This applies to a test as well as for a paying job.


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Steffen Pollex  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:38
English to German
+ ...
Frankly, I don't understand the problem you have Feb 5, 2003

In case you hadn\'t found most of the answers on proz, you would have had to find them through other sources (dictionaries, websites etc.).



Let\'s assume, you had then submitted the files translated by using sources other than Proz to the agency. Would they know or even care about what sources you used to complete the test in this case? Of course, no! They would read your sample and be fine with it. So, what, in your opiniion, is the difference between using a diczionary or using Proz?



Of course, you can ask for another sample and tell them you have problems with the test because it doesn\'t reflect your prof. experience. But would they believ you or even pay attention? They have a job to be done. wouldn\'t they think the other way around then: that you are just incapable, being unable to handle the sample?



Anyway, they would be abble to assess the quality of your work, at least, by the first serious job they assign to you. So, don\'t fiddle around with the test, send it.


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:38
Spanish to English
+ ...
Using ProZ is NOT cheating! Feb 5, 2003

It\'s ANOTHER resource, often last resort and / or confirmation of choices etc.



I would do the text as normal, as stylistically at least it will be different, inform the agency, justify choices you made and agreement/disagreement with answers found on ProZ.



It is proabably more interesting for the agency to see the process than the product, and part of that process will be how you deal with the ethical issue you are confronted with.



Good luck!


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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 22:38
German to English
Perhaps you're worrying too much... Feb 5, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-05 09:12, sonjav wrote:

Hi there,



I am currently facing a dilemma.







Unfortunately, you\'ve now outed yourself and perhaps the agency in question will stumble upon your posting. Your only solution now is to ask for a different test for whatever reason...



Good luck and take it easy.

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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 22:38
German to English
RE: whole doc Feb 5, 2003




[/quote]

We are talking about a complete document, not just some words here and there. And unless your client is called \"webster\" you won\'t find the whole text in a dictionary.



[/quote]



Exactly how is this possible? The whole document? I assume that individual words have been posted and answered. Individual words do not constitute the \"style\" of a translation and this is what agencies are testing, no?


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Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:38
French to English
Common sense Feb 5, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-05 09:37, Marijke wrote:

I think the agency uses the same test for everybody and, therefore, you should inform them that it has been compromised. It would not reflect your ability but how good you are on the web! I would try not to mention who has been asking the questions but I do think you can say how you know it has been compromised. Difficult position to be in!



I wouldn\'t say that asking a question through KudoZ was necessarily cheating. You are allowed to use all the resources available and that includes KudoZ.



[...]







This question comes up every now and again. Firstly, I think it\'s a shame that for obvious reasons, agencies don\'t seem to change their test texts more often. Secondly, the agent wants to see if you can do a good job. That involves using a multitude of resources, online (thus ProZ) and off.



Never the less, any decent translator would probably realise that posting almost all of the text up for confirmation or assistance probably suggests that they are working on a piece they ought not to be claiming they are able to do professionally.



Boils down to a question of degree and conscience.



And to answer the original question here, you obviously cannot forget what you have seen. Bet you can improve upon it though, change it and make it yours!



Nikki

Moderator FR>EN

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-05 16:31]

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sylver  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:38
English to French
Whole doc??? Feb 5, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-05 13:26, smalich wrote:







We are talking about a complete document, not just some words here and there. And unless your client is called \"webster\" you won\'t find the whole text in a dictionary.



[/quote]



Exactly how is this possible? The whole document? I assume that individual words have been posted and answered. Individual words do not constitute the \"style\" of a translation and this is what agencies are testing, no?

[/quote]



I wonder too, but as I was answering on a question refering to \"the whole doc found on Proz\", I assumed in my answer that she had indeed found the whole document on Proz.



As someone else already mentionned, it\'s a matter of degree. If she feels like it is kind of cheating - which seems to be the case - then I would say, she ought to keep her integrity and contact the agency. If the agency replies that\'s fine, no problem.



At worst the agency provides a new test, and that\'s that.



On the other end, if the agency finds out, they may feel betrayed - no matter how unfair - and stop working with her.

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