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Outrageous low rates
Thread poster: pascie
pascie  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:21
English to French
+ ...
Sep 26, 2007

Here we are back again.
I thought this has been discussed several times, whether to let outsourcers post such ridiculous paid jobs.
This is helping and supporting unfair competition.
I am not thinking of the translators that might or might not accepting these jobs, I am more concerned about letting unscrupulous people spreading and vehiculating wrong ideas regarding the translation business and industry. When is this going to stop?
Please Proz, do something to help this community.


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xxxLatin_Hellas
United States
Local time: 06:21
Italian to English
+ ...
What is the consensus? Sep 26, 2007

Yes, this issue has been discussed before, but I haven't followed it.

What has been the consensus view? Does some concept of freedom of speech prevail over some concept of, what, bogus or predatory advertising or perhaps unfair competition or dumping?

Can someone summarize the current state of the debate? If outrageous low rates are considered bogus, predatory, unfair, or dumping, or some combination of the above, what can be done about concretely, if anything?

Or is it a matter of free and fair competition and we just have to deal with it or ignore it?

Thanks.

[Edited at 2007-09-26 14:44]


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Dallas Cao
China
Local time: 13:21
English to Chinese
+ ...
How much is that? Sep 26, 2007

How much would be regarded as an outrageous rate?

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pascie  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:21
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
the rates Sep 26, 2007

unprofessional and unscrupulous people practice in order to break in a market, and therefore, to establish a new set of standards against what the industry has already defined.
This is called by law 'unfair competition'.


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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 08:21
English to Russian
They do enough actually Sep 26, 2007

Proz offers very good graph of rate distribution across community, it allows to track both average and assembly average. Beginners can utilize it when defining their price.
And I don't really get, why you are so upset, there's always high end and low end, just stay on high side=)


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xxxLatin_Hellas
United States
Local time: 06:21
Italian to English
+ ...
Link please? Sep 26, 2007

Vadim Poguliaev wrote:

Proz offers very good graph of rate distribution across community, it allows to track both average and assembly average. Beginners can utilize it when defining their price.
And I don't really get, why you are so upset, there's always high end and low end, just stay on high side=)


Hi Vadim,

Do you have an internal link for that graph please?


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xxxLatin_Hellas
United States
Local time: 06:21
Italian to English
+ ...
Specific statute? Sep 26, 2007

pascie wrote:

unprofessional and unscrupulous people practice in order to break in a market, and therefore, to establish a new set of standards against what the industry has already defined.
This is called by law 'unfair competition'.



Hi pascie,

Can you cite a specific US or EU statute?

My feeble understanding of US law, at least, is that the aim of such practice, for it to be unlawful, has to be to drive out the competition and then establish a de facto monopoly. I don't see how it is possible to establish a monopoly in the translation industry.

There might be some case for dumping in certain instances, perhaps even under WTO rules, but I believe they apply only to trade in goods, not in services. I could be wrong ...


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Jim Tucker  Identity Verified
United States
Hungarian to English
+ ...
just for sport Sep 26, 2007

I occasionally bid on these jobs, and offer a rate of $.50/ word or so. Someone must get the point. No reason to stew over these situations, as there is no coercion involved.

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pascie  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:21
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Consensus View Sep 26, 2007

Up to now very little has been done.
Freedom of Speech should prevail as long as it does not hurt a community, and its members thereof. In a long run, this practice will impact the economic system, in that it will benefit to the same people, those previously refered.
The consensus should be aimed to achieve a global solidarity.
I am sorry but I cannot disclose any further information here as it is part of the book I am writing.
Thank you to both baale002 and Jim for your supportive thoughts and reactions.


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Renate Reinartz  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:21
English to German
good point ;-) Does someone bid with normal rate? Sep 26, 2007

Jim Tucker wrote:

I occasionally bid on these jobs, and offer a rate of $.50/ word or so. Someone must get the point. No reason to stew over these situations, as there is no coercion involved.


Yes, but it won't help in most cases I fear. Anyway, if you feel better, you should do it. ,-)

Sometimes when I see such a low rate I am thinking about bidding with my rate. Normally I don't do it because this would be time-consuming, and mostly time-wasting as well.

But once I negotiated a better price than offered and got the job because of my qualification.

Best,
Renate


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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 08:21
English to Russian
to bale Sep 26, 2007

bale002 wrote:

Vadim Poguliaev wrote:

Proz offers very good graph of rate distribution across community, it allows to track both average and assembly average. Beginners can utilize it when defining their price.
And I don't really get, why you are so upset, there's always high end and low end, just stay on high side=)


Hi Vadim,

Do you have an internal link for that graph please?

Try this one http://www.proz.com/?sp=rates_view
However it may be members-only feature=)


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pascie  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:21
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
To Vadim Sep 26, 2007

Wrong. It is not a member feature.
This is the message received.
To view the community's rates, you must enter yours first.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 06:21
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Another moaner... Sep 26, 2007

pascie wrote:
I am not thinking of the translators that might or might not accepting these jobs, I am more concerned about letting unscrupulous people spreading and vehiculating wrong ideas regarding the translation business and industry. When is this going to stop?

Please Proz, do something to help this community.


Well, Mr Moaner, we're all ears. Instead of just saying that something should be done, why not make a more useful contribution and tell us all *what* should be done?

While you're at it, why not try your hand at answering the last question posed in the previous thread of this nature: What is a scrupulous rate, and how would you determine it... so that those of us who feel your pain, can help do something about it?


[Edited at 2007-09-26 17:22]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 06:21
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Good idea, Jim! Sep 26, 2007

Jim Tucker wrote:
I occasionally bid on these jobs, and offer a rate of $.50/ word or so. Someone must get the point.


This is actually a good idea. The complainers should band together and bid high on low-paying jobs. I wonder if such a concerted effort be allowed in the ProZ.com community...


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 06:21
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
When I wasn't platinum Sep 26, 2007

pascie wrote:
Wrong. It is not a member feature.
This is the message received.
To view the community's rates, you must enter yours first.


Back in the days when I wasn't a platinum member yet, only platinum members could view the rates, although anyone could contribute to it. Are you sure non-paying members can see the rates?


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