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is this a no-no on proz.com?
Thread poster: Grégoire Thygesen
Grégoire Thygesen
Local time: 17:25
Italian to English
+ ...
Feb 14, 2003

maybe a strange question here, but I came up with the idea on my way home from work today, and I thought I\'d run it by the proz



I recently got a job as translations coordinator at a basically new translation company here in my town (maybe you\'ve seen a couple of jobs that I posted here recently?). We\'re trying to get on our feet, so we don\'t really have anything that would qualify as a \"budget\" - but we\'re hoping to someday



So far I\'ve completely re-designed our website from the ground up, and I translated the whole thing to English so that we\'d have a nice presence on the net - I started about 10 years ago as a freelance translator myself, which is where I\'ve come to know proz.com. I\'ve also been working on getting our company\'s name out in different \"marketing circles\" so that companies who might need our services would know we were out there.



Personally, I\'d like to see our website translated into several different languages, mainly to show prospective clients that we are actually able to get the job done in the language that they need - foriegn clients are also more than welcome.



Now comes my question. My boss recently let me know that we basically have no money available to get our pages translated into other languages (approxamately 3000 words total), which leaves our page only in Danish and English. So basically what I would need are people that might be willing to translate it for free.



So I thought of the proz community - not because I believe that it would be the place to find a freebee, but... I remember how difficult it was for me to \"come out\" in the freelance translation world (notice my lack of kudoz - believe me, it\'s not from lack of trying ) - I could offer the translation to people so that they would have some experience, something to put on their CV and I also would be willing to put them at the top of the list when the next paying translation comes around in their language pair (economically we\'re not doing fantastic yet, but we have new clients every day and something is sure to come around soon enough).



So, should I NOT post the job on proz.com for fear of offending the freelance translators that work very hard for the money that they get. Or maybe I\'m fooling myself thinking that someone would be willing to work just for something that they could put on their CV? I\'m really not trying to cheat anyone - I\'m just trying to help out my new company in any way that I can.



I don\'t know if I posted this in the correct forum, but I hope that some of you can help me out, or at least give me some good suggestions. Don\'t be afraid to be honest, either - short of getting flamed, I\'m a big boy, and I can handle any criticism that may come my way
[addsig]


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Klaus Dorn
Local time: 19:25
German to English
+ ...
Done it before and am willing to do it again Feb 14, 2003

Yes, I agree that Proz should be a forum where you can find help like this - I believe in helping each other to create business and I also have a different business ethos in so much that I don\'t do everything just to earn money.



I have translated a website into German for a colleague from this forum before (mind you, I\'ve forgotten the name, something \"Swedishtranslations\") and I would be happy to do it again. I haven\'t had any jobs from this colleague, but \"what isn\'t now can be in the future\" (a badly translated German proverb). So, feel free to send me the address and I will start immediately!


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:25
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
Sometimes free becomes terribly expensive. Feb 14, 2003

Hi Gregoire,

I understand your problem, however as I see it, your boss doesn\'t - if he believed that different language versions lead to better business, he would have allocated money to it.



Getting it done by inexperienced translators for free (to fill their empty CV) is a big risk, it may actually turn your prospective customers off, cheap translation will be recognised by the very first line. Marketing materials should actually be more written in a target language than simply translated, IMHO.



One thing stikes me: you say it\'s a new company, however the website (I went there through the link from your profile) says it was established in 1988! Not only last century, but 15 years ago! One may expect that over such a period of time the agency managed to built a sound network of translators willing to help (?).



Posting such a job offer (free translation) is certainly a no-no at ProZ.com. Perhaps you could use your network contacts instead. I\'ve noticed that your company offers also software and dictionaries. Perhaps you can make an attractive package out of it.



Cheap translation may actually do more harm than good to your business. There is nothing worst than poorly done website. If you can\'t afford good and experienced translators - it\'s better to leave it as it is.



Best,

Magda

PS Please, take it as a friendly advice: /whisper.../the ENG version of your website leaves some room for improvement, check the list of languages particularly /end of whisper/


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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 13:25
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
An inexperienced translator can be a good translator Feb 15, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-14 21:37, Magda-KMM wrote:



Getting it done by inexperienced translators for free (to fill their empty CV) is a big risk, it may actually turn your prospective customers off, cheap translation will be recognised by the very first line.particularly /end of whisper/





I wouldn\'t say that. I\'m quite experienced translator and I\'ve translated for free, if I think the work deserves it. And I did my best to deliver a good translation. I always do; never mind if I\'m well paid, bad paid o not paid at all.

Also, I\'ve worked with junior translators, who without experience have delivered excelent translations. And, experienced pros who... well, I rather don\'t talk about their work

I\'m sure that perhaps a translator will cooperate with you in exchange of a similar work. I help you today, and you\'ll help me tomorrow. Why not?

Regards,



Clarisa Moraña

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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 17:25
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Philippianian Feb 15, 2003

Magda

PS Please, take it as a friendly advice: /whisper.../the ENG version of your website leaves some room for improvement, check the list of languages particularly /end of whisper/

[/quote]



yep, never heard of Lestonian, Malasian, Pakistansk, Philippianian(!), Portugese and Slovakian



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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:25
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
I see your point, Clarisa Feb 15, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-15 00:02, Clarisa wrote:



Also, I\'ve worked with junior translators, who without experience have delivered excelent translations. And, experienced pros who... well, I rather don\'t talk about their work




That\'s absolutely true. But for such a sensitive job as translation of commercial website with 0 budget one risk a lot hiring unknown and unexperienced translator. It is better to ask someone who you know that will do his/her best.

Quote:


I\'m sure that perhaps a translator will cooperate with you in exchange of a similar work. I help you today, and you\'ll help me tomorrow. Why not?




Mey be help with website design? This is something we want to have nicely done, but we allocate 0 funds to it.



Magda





[ This Message was edited by:on2003-02-15 00:47]


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Grégoire Thygesen
Local time: 17:25
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
oh i know the site has problems.... Feb 15, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-14 21:37, Magda-KMM wrote:

Hi Gregoire,

I understand your problem, however as I see it, your boss doesn\'t - if he believed that different language versions lead to better business, he would have allocated money to it.




I\'m totally with you there - would you tell that to my boss?



Quote:


One thing stikes me: you say it\'s a new company, however the website (I went there through the link from your profile) says it was established in 1988! Not only last century, but 15 years ago! One may expect that over such a period of time the agency managed to built a sound network of translators willing to help (?).




It was founded 15 years ago, but not as a translation company - from what I understand, we were doing a lot of \"intermediary\" work between the Danish government and those of Eastern Europe - don\'t quote me on that, though - all I know is that the translation aspect of our business is relatively new (I\'ve only been there a month myself - I can only refer what I\'ve heard...)



Quote:


PS Please, take it as a friendly advice: /whisper.../the ENG version of your website leaves some room for improvement, check the list of languages particularly /end of whisper/





The language list is the last thing in the \"development\" stage of the site - believe it or not, we\'ve taken the languages (and the funny names) directly from people\'s CV\'s that they\'ve sent us (I mean really, when was the last time any of us received a request to translate Babylonian? ) I\'ll be re-working that list next week.



Thanks for your advice though - I\'ll have to check out the CV\'s that we do have right now and maybe find someone there... Some of the languages that we want is translated to are French, Italian, Chinese, Russian.... I personally know three of those languages, and other collegues know the other languages that we\'re translating to, so a bad translation wouldn\'t go unnoticed, either.
[addsig]

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Grégoire Thygesen
Local time: 17:25
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
good idea! Feb 15, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-15 00:43, Magda-KMM wrote:

Quote:


On 2003-02-15 00:02, Clarisa wrote:



Also, I\'ve worked with junior translators, who without experience have delivered excelent translations. And, experienced pros who... well, I rather don\'t talk about their work




That\'s absolutely true. But for such a sensitive job as translation of commercial website with 0 budget one risk a lot hiring unknown and unexperienced translator. It is better to ask someone who you know that will do his/her best.

Quote:


I\'m sure that perhaps a translator will cooperate with you in exchange of a similar work. I help you today, and you\'ll help me tomorrow. Why not?




Mey be help with website design? This is something we want to have nicely done, but we allocate 0 funds to it.



Magda





Is this an offer, Magda?



I think such an exchange would be more than fair, and actually a wonderful way to make good contacts and new friends

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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:25
Italian to English
+ ...
just a wee comment.. Feb 15, 2003

Hi all,

I\'ve been watching this topic with interest.

I think the main points are that

1. It\'s completely up to you how you go about designing your web page/finding translators. If you can find someone willing, fine.

2. Working for nothing does not equal bad translating.

An idea : 3. Reduced content in your website versions (publishing the essential text only) means paying out fewer Euros for the translation. You can get a linguistically stunning site and still pay decent (0.10E) rates and still get your message across. Fewer words often equal clearer messages.



With that, I\'ll stop.

All the best,

Amy



p.s. Copying languages from translators\' CVs? Yikes!



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xxxscribolo
Local time: 17:25
English to German
+ ...
I did it... Feb 15, 2003



On 2003-02-15 12:38, awilliams wrote:

An idea : 3. Reduced content in your website versions (publishing the essential text only) means paying out fewer Euros for the translation. You can get a linguistically stunning site and still pay decent (0.10E) rates and still get your message across. Fewer words often equal clearer messages.







We have an longer english version, and then, only one page for any additional language (with +/- complete en content in one page). The difference between en and other versions is only in max. 500 words (not even that much), but is was much easeir giving ONE html page out for translation.



HTH, Sandra
[addsig]


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Grégoire Thygesen
Local time: 17:25
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
a little clarification... Feb 15, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-02-15 12:38, awilliams wrote:



An idea : 3. Reduced content in your website versions (publishing the essential text only) means paying out fewer Euros for the translation. You can get a linguistically stunning site and still pay decent (0.10E) rates and still get your message across. Fewer words often equal clearer messages.





I only did the design for the site (I just work there ) so it\'s really not up to me to decide what the essential text should be...



Quote:


p.s. Copying languages from translators\' CVs? Yikes!





I\'m losing you here a little bit - ok, I didn\'t write the list of languages either (and it DOES need work), but doesn\'t the fact that we have a freelancer working for us that claims to be able to translate the language mean that we have the possibility to provide that translation? We didn\'t \"copy\" languages from any CV\'s that weren\'t submitted to us directly from our site.....

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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:25
Italian to English
+ ...
Much ado about nothing. Here I rest my case. Feb 15, 2003

(The implication seems to have been that the languages were cut and paste from CVs.)

Never mind that - people are only out to give advice, Grégoire.



Best of luck with it all.


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cillegio
Local time: 20:25
Azerbaijani to Russian
+ ...
You could say I am niggard Feb 16, 2003

Well, you could say I am niggard, but I can\' get the message.

You say agency works for 15 years on the market and does not have budget.

The fee for good translation of 3000 words is circa 300 euros.

You need to have 5-6 translation maximum and i believe it is not too much for an agency to set aside 1000 euros a month to pay for translation. If you will consider to give the assignment to young freelancers promising new contracts in the future, maybe somebody will accept even for less (.05 -.06 euro/word).

Personally I feel that it is not good to ask someody to translate for free - everybody knows that such thing rarely get compensated in the future.



do not take this personally , I strongly believe that agency could afford to pay 300-400 euros for good advertisment.



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cillegio
Local time: 20:25
Azerbaijani to Russian
+ ...
AZARI - please change it to Azerbaijani Feb 16, 2003

Why not you check the languages on the web-site for consistency.

I would remove alllanguages I could not find at proz - mistakes in language will not add any new client, but rather make them feel that even the English translation could be of poor quality


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Grégoire Thygesen
Local time: 17:25
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
whoa! Feb 16, 2003

Just as a clarification - i\'m not responsible for the company\'s budget nor the site\'s content. I don\'t know WHY no money can be allocated and I didn\'t ask. I was just told we couldn\'t afford to pay to translate our site right now so I was looking for other solutions within the possibilities that were given to me, that\'s all.



Maybe my no-no was even mentioning it - if it was, I\'m sorry. I really didn\'t mean to offend anyone.


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