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Before I invest...
Thread poster: Sandrine Pantel
Meta Arkadia
Meta Arkadia
Local time: 15:52
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Individualisable Jul 31, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
...but the learning curve for using more advanced features of CafeTran is rather steep.


I think you can safely say this goes for all CAT tools. For all tools. For everything.

Asking if the GUI is user friendly, then my answer will be still 'no'


The GUI is highly individualisable (coined be me and now), so I suppose it's user-friendly. What I don't like, is that Igor wants everybody happy (impossible, especially not when there are nasty old farts like me around), so he keeps adding features, whereas at the same time, he wants to keep things simple. Forget it, it can't be done, not even by Igor.

if you have a powerful computer, PC or Mac with plenty of RAM


CafeTran has a very small footprint - something like 10 MB (that's megabyte, not gigabyte) - so it's suitable for just about any computer. It loads TMX resources in the RAM, so yes, if you want to use large TMX resources, you need a lot of RAM. If you can't assign a lot of RAM (say 4 GB for large TMX resources), CafeTran will be as slow as any other CAT tool, unless you start using the database instead of a TMX resource. For more on CafeTran's resources, see here.

Cheers,

Hans


 
2nl (X)
2nl (X)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:52
Expectations/habits lead to a fixed mindset? Jul 31, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

CafeTran is not an easy program to learn.


Hey Selçuk,

I'm still struggling with that interesting statement. Is this valid for all users? Both for migrants as for first-time CAT tool users?

For you, me and about all the other contributors to this thread it has been quite some time since we learned to work with CafeTran. Since then, a lot of work has been done to make the creation of a translation project easier. Up to a point where it actually has become very easy to create a new project and start translating right away. The Drag & Drop approach may have inspired other CAT tools (like memoQ) to also implement it.

This video is outdated, but it gives interested readers an idea of how easy project creation is in CafeTran:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL-086KdDxU

I'd say that CafeTran is easy to learn for first-time CAT users and a little surprising for migrants of other CAT tools. Personally I find it refreshing to learn a new tool – as long as it is consistent in its approach. But I understand that the differences can be overwhelming and awkward – especially when you have other things on your mind than learning a new CAT tool.

Cheers,

Hans


 
TalTranslations
TalTranslations
United Kingdom
English to Hebrew
IMHO not user-friendly Jul 31, 2015

Sandrine Pantel wrote:

I just wanted to collect some advice from users of this CAT tool or at least from persons who have tried it.

Is it really user friendly? Does it really allow to accept translation projects from clients who normally demand SDL Trados, Wordfast, etc?

Thanks in advance!


Hi Sandrine,
I think CafeTran is not user-friendly. I tried it out for some time, but it's not intuitive i think.
Of course it's personal and you can only decide when you try it out yourself.

Wordfast is not more expensive than Cafetrans and if you are lucky you can get Studio at a local reseller for less than half of the price.

Time is money. I was a CAT hopper. But if you think about it,
let's say you earn 20 euro/hr and you are struggling with a new "less expensive" CAT Cafetran for 20 hours (or more), working out the user interface, struggling with converting MQ/sdl files etc.
for that 400 euro (20*20) you could already spend your money on a more decent CAT.

If money is a a real issue, you are better of with OmegaT i think, it's very user-friendly and it's FREE. It also supports sdlxliff files etc.
It was my first CAT, it's very very easy to use, and it can do almost everything the other CATs can.


Tip: Just try cafetran out yourself, but not too long. If you don't get it in a few hours, stop and try out a different CAT tool


[Edited at 2015-07-31 13:44 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-07-31 13:45 GMT]


 
Sandrine Pantel
Sandrine Pantel  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:52
Member (2015)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hello TalTranslations Jul 31, 2015

Yes, I already use Omega T but I haven't tried to open sdlxliff files with it yet.

Does it work well? Do you use this tool without problem when a customer sends you projects that should normally be opened in Trados?


 
2nl (X)
2nl (X)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:52
Who are you? Jul 31, 2015

TalTranslations wrote:

I think CafeTran is not user-friendly. I tried it out for some time, but it's not intuitive i think.


Sorry that you feel that way.

Would be nice to read some more information about you. Now your profile reads:

>Detailed fields not specified.


 
2nl (X)
2nl (X)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:52
Please take this to the oT forum Jul 31, 2015

Sandrine Pantel wrote:

Yes, I already use Omega T but I haven't tried to open sdlxliff files with it yet.

Does it work well? Do you use this tool without problem when a customer sends you projects that should normally be opened in Trados?


Could you please take this discussion to the appropriate forum?


 
Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 11:52
English to Turkish
+ ...
no, it is really steep Aug 1, 2015

Meta Arkadia wrote:

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
...but the learning curve for using more advanced features of CafeTran is rather steep.


I think you can safely say this goes for all CAT tools. For all tools. For everything.

Hans


Hi Hans,

I am a DVX user but I have tested almost all CAT tools since 2000. There are advanced features in all CAT tools but one can start using some of them them at least after the first month. After so many years with CafeTran, unfortunately I am lost in it.

I wonder how many users know all the features of CafeTran, 2-3? I still read messages in the 'old' Google group from users "hey, I discovered this but... how can I...", too much power features, too much settings! Really not intuitive.

I know the keyboard shortcuts but one can not work without the mouse in CafeTran. Try it, unplug the mouse and test everything with the keyboard for 20 minutes.

I still believe CafeTran is a great program with great features but Igor needs help from a usability or user interface engineer.


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:52
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Hi Selcuk! Aug 1, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

Meta Arkadia wrote:

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
...but the learning curve for using more advanced features of CafeTran is rather steep.


I think you can safely say this goes for all CAT tools. For all tools. For everything.

Hans


Hi Hans,

I am a DVX user but I have tested almost all CAT tools since 2000. There are advanced features in all CAT tools but one can start using some of them them at least after the first month. After so many years with CafeTran, unfortunately I am lost in it.

I wonder how many users know all the features of CafeTran, 2-3? I still read messages in the 'old' Google group from users "hey, I discovered this but... how can I...", too much power features, too much settings! Really not intuitive.

I know the keyboard shortcuts but one can not work without the mouse in CafeTran. Try it, unplug the mouse and test everything with the keyboard for 20 minutes.

I still believe CafeTran is a great program with great features but Igor needs help from a usability or user interface engineer.


Although I probably agree with you there, I'm actually pretty keyboard-oriented myself, and suspect that you can probably do more using just the keyboard in CafeTran than you can in most of the other CAT tools.

I'm surprised that you're lost in CafeTran, given your obvious knowledge and skills with CAT tools and computers in general. I assume you mean lost when it comes to the more complex features, but that you have already managed to get a simple job done in CT, as that really isn’t that difficult, at least from my vantage point. I mean, when Ct starts, you are now presented with a very clear layout: Translation memories, Glossaries, and just drag and drop your src file onto the UI.

I wonder sometimes if it might not be harder, rather than easier, for someone to get to grips with CT if they already have extensive experience with other CAT tools?


 
Meta Arkadia
Meta Arkadia
Local time: 15:52
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Yes, Selçuk Aug 1, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
There are advanced features in all CAT tools but one can start using some of them them at least after the first month.


You are right in my eyes, more than right.

And what doesn't help, is that the emphasis seems to fall on those advanced features. Which is why I unsubbed from the CafeTran user groups. I'm too old to fight a losing war.

Only I few weeks ago, I announced I was going to write a new tutorial for beginners, "CafeTran in One Hour." I sent Igor the plan, he said it was a good idea (he always says that of all ideas), and I started writing. And then he changed the "Dashboard," again. That means I had to change my plans for the second 5 minutes of the tutorial. OK, I could live with that, I could introduce using the Menu. But soon after, he changed the Menu in this regard as well. I gave up. CafeTran changes faster than I can write.

So it's the emphasis on advanced features, more features, the constant changes, no manual. That's the non-user-friendly part. The non-beginning-user-friendly part. And it's just about impossible to write a tutorial, let alone a 500+ pages (excellent) manual like the one for DVX3.

Igor needs help from a usability or user interface engineer


Stop making all those (UI) changes all the time would help. So would not concentrating on new features. CafeTran is already more than up to standards with the Big Three and the samsung, so there's no need for new features for the time being. But Igor seems to love coding and little else (and he hardly seems to be interested in making money), so it won't work that way.

CafeTran is an excellent CAT tool. I think I can safely say it's the best CAT tool around for OS X, and quite likely the best CAT tool around period. But I'm glad I don't have to learn it anymore. And that brings me to your other point: No, I don't know half of the features, but I do know the ones I need for getting a job done efficiently.

Cheers,

Hans

[Edited at 2015-08-01 23:54 GMT]


 
2nl (X)
2nl (X)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:52
I don't know a lot of features ... but I don't miss them Aug 2, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

I wonder how many users know all the features of CafeTran, 2-3? I still read messages in the 'old' Google group from users "hey, I discovered this but... how can I...", too much power features, too much settings! Really not intuitive.


I only know the features that I need. I don't know features as:

- Total Recall
- TM-Town
- Paper workflow

and many more*). I'll probably don't use the new PDF viewer either, since I use Skim and an AppleScript to sync.

I can live with the fact that I don't use many features that are available .

Same goes for other CAT tools that offer many features that are designed for project managers and that I'll never use. Because I'm not a project manager.

For me it is not relevant how many features my CAT tool offers, nor how many of them I will be using (as a percentage of the total number of features).

For me it is important whether my CAT tool offers the features that I personally need to do my work in an efficient way. For me efficiency is defined as productivity and fun to work (I'd even define productivity as a key to fun to work).

*) Since I want to be able to help colleagues with learning CafeTran (because this is a nice way to get in touch with colleagues all around the world), eventually I'll have to learn these features myself .


 
Dominique Pivard
Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:52
Finnish to French
CafeTran video + comparison with memoQ & Trados Aug 17, 2015

Sandrine Pantel wrote:
I have already downloaded it and I will try the free version at first!

I’m chiming in a bit late, but just in case you want to have a general picture of the way CafeTran 2015 works, you may want to have a look at the video I made a couple of months ago. You can watch it here (blog post or here (direct link to YouTube video).

I made similar videos (using the same material and the same workflow) on memoQ 2015 and SDL Trados 2015, so you can use them for comparison purposes.


 
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