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Wearing out the "Get" button in Trados?
Thread poster: Ivan Eikås Skjøstad

Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
May 25, 2003

Since Trados do not offer the Wordfast "propagate" function I normally pre translate documents, and use the "insert" option to insert critical words from glossaries provided from my customers.

The problem is when starting the translation using Trados in Word. When getting a 100% match I have to use the "GET" function, the only function without a short key...

Why? And is it possible to work around this, so Trados automatically inserts the 100% (that is the case if I do not pre translate)

I have only used Trados (5.5) and now 6 for a while, so I am open to any suggestions that will help me out. I am using MS Word 2000 and WIN XP.

Most likely I have to work with Wordfast for these projects, but since I am trying to build a Trados TM I have to export and import a lot, and I am trying to avoid this.

Please let me know if you have a good solution for this other than pressing the "Get" button all the time. I know this question has been up before, but I cannot understand that it is not a way around.


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Carla Zwanenberg  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Try Alt+S, G May 25, 2003

Hello Ivan,

Instead of clicking on the get button, you can use Alt+S to open the Trados menu and type G to get the translation.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'pretranslating', are you using the Translate option in the Workbench Tools menu?

Groeten,
Carla


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes May 25, 2003

Carla Zwanenberg wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'pretranslating', are you using the Translate option in the Workbench Tools menu?

Groeten,
Carla


Yes, I mean the Translate option in the Workbench Tools menu. Thank you for the other tip as well.


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jmadsen  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
Make your own shortcut May 25, 2003

You can make your own shortcut in Word:
Tools menu -> Customize option -> Commands tab.
Click "Keyboard" at the bottom.
Select "Macros" in left hand list.
Select the macro (tw4win.GetTranslation) in right hand list.
Press the key combination you want in the "Press New Shortcut key" field (I use Alt + F12).
Press "Assign" and "Close" twice.

That's easier than using the mouse.
Jørgen


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you, but May 25, 2003

I would also like to hear if you have any more tricks after using the Translate option. Is it possible to use the Translate option, do a "magic trick" and then get Workbench to insert the 100% TU's directly into the target segment? If this is possible, I do not have to wear out my new shortcut:) (It is assigned and ready to use, since I am not sure that I will find a solution to my problem)

Jørgen Madsen wrote:

You can make your own shortcut in Word:
Tools menu -> Customize option -> Commands tab.
Click "Keyboard" at the bottom.
Select "Macros" in left hand list.
Select the macro (tw4win.GetTranslation) in right hand list.
Press the key combination you want in the "Press New Shortcut key" field (I use Alt + F12).
Press "Assign" and "Close" twice.

That's easier than using the mouse.
Jørgen


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jmadsen  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
Why don't you pretranslate? May 25, 2003

Why don't you use the Translate option in Tools?
It will automatically translate all 100% segments.
Jørgen


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:39
English to German
+ ...
Use "Open/Get"...? May 25, 2003

Ivan,
I'm not sure if I properly grasp your problem here, but...

I would also like to hear if you have any more tricks after using the Translate option. Is it possible to use the Translate option, do a "magic trick" and then get Workbench to insert the 100% TU's directly into the target segment?

If you open the segment using "Open/Get" (as opposed to just "Open", any match (not just 100% matches) will be placed in the target segment.

Does that answer your question?

Ralf


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Alison Schwitzgebel
France
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
When I translate in Trados May 25, 2003

When I translate in Trados - which is pretty much all the time - I use the set/close next open/get button (or alt plus + on the number pad at the right of my keyboard). This stores the current segment to the memory and opens the next segment while simultaneously finding any previous translation of this segment in the memory (incl. fuzzy translations) and inserting this translation into the "yellow Trados box".

BTW, Alt plus x on the number pad will fly you through the 100% matches and take you to the next fuzzy.....

Am I talking "Fachchinesisch" (specialist Chinese) or am I making sense

HTH

Alison


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Solved May 25, 2003

Thank you all for trying to help!!



I do now know what I have been doing wrong. I have used the translate function, and then opened the document, starting the translation.



Doing it this way will be wrong. I am fairly new to Trados, but I should have known that the pretranslate puts numbers in the delimiters, and if I have a 100% match (it might be a repetition) Trados consider the delimiter number, that might be a 90% match. This will result in a 100% match in the Workbench window, and I will have to use the get command. Using the ALT+Num+ will not work.



To make it work I should make a copy of source file, pretranslate the copy, and then open the original source file for translation. Then everything is back to normal. I have run a test, and it works!





[Edited at 2003-05-25 21:07]


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Ilde Grimaldi  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
segment is full May 26, 2003

Hi Ivan

1) I think your problem is standard and has no solution, and the reason is that, if you pretranslate (with a memory or a glossary) before translating the file, when you afterwards manually open the segment, the target is alredy full with a pretranslated/fuzzy match/100% match/a bunch of words so the program does not replace that content with its 100%.
For example, once a client of mine sent me pretranslated files that also had fuzzy matches pretranslated. That was "inappropriate" for me because if the initial pretranslated file had a target sentence pretranslated with a 75% match, my possible repetition was not automatically loaded in the segment and I had to use the Get function

1) you can also notice that if you pretranslate the file checking "Segment unknown sencentes", possible repetitions or fuzzy matches generated during your further translation won't automatically replase the source text that had been placed in the target segment. This would happen, instead, if you had not checked that box for pretranslation and you just check 'Copy source on no match' in Options > Translation memory option > General.
Once again the problem is that source text has been already segmented with the source text in the target segment, so the target segment is "occupied" and won't be handled automatically during "manual" translation.

3) the macro suggested by the colleague was what I made just within one week after Trados purchasing. I really don't understand why there's no keyboard shortcut for it if the menu item and the menu buttons are indeed provided. Calling the menu shortcut for me does not work, probably for some conflict with other "letters" in the Italian localization of Word. MY PROBLEM IS NOW HOW TO CREATE SUCH A MACRO (KEYBOARD SHORTCUT) FOR TAGEDITOR. I don't think this is possible, or maybe I should use some specific macro program

4) I should try this pretranslation function and glossary insertion. This has always been there since I bought my first version of Trados, more then four years ago, but I was told in the first days from my client that it was not useful and a mess, and never studied it. When two years ago I discovered the wonderful function ASSEMBLE (and propagation) of Déjà Vu, I thought they were unique. I should also try Wordfast But I already use and studied hard DV, Trados, TagEditor, SDLX, Transite Satellite and two different agencies CAT, oouch, it never ends...

ciao!
Ilde


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Ilde Grimaldi  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Open/Get May 26, 2003

Ralf Lemster wrote:

If you open the segment using "Open/Get" (as opposed to just "Open", any match (not just 100% matches) will be placed in the target segment.

Ralf


Hi Ralf,
I experienced that Open/Get has the same result as just Open if the text has been already segmented (that is pretranslated with a glossary or pretranslated with "Segment unknown sentences" checked)

ciao
Ilde


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Translate function and insertion of Terms May 26, 2003

Regarding the method described above it will be no point using Translate, and then start over again with the original source. To eager to think I have found the soloution I thought this was it...



Unfortunately Trados do not have Wordfast\'s \"Propagate\" function, but if I use Translate and \"Insert terms\" I will get a pretranslated file with the terms marked in blue. But pretranslated files are \"hopeless\" to work with.



My conclusion is that Wordfast is the only CAT I have used that will propagate, and run a quality check for glossaries. Therefore I will switch back to Wordfast for assignments working in Word, and use Trados (TagEditor) for HTML, mif-files etc.



TagEditor is by the way an excellent tool...



Thanks again for bearing with a new Trados user.

[Edited at 2003-05-26 07:44]


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you May 26, 2003

for understanding. Good to know that you understand. During Word session I now switch to Wordfast, using the propagate function that saves me a lot of hazzle and time.

Ilde Grimaldi wrote:

1) I think your problem is standard and has no solution, and the reason is that, if you pretranslate (with a memory or a glossary) before translating the file, when you afterwards manually open the segment, the target is alredy full with a pretranslated/fuzzy match/100% match/a bunch of words so the program does not replace that content with its 100%.
Ilde


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sylver  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:39
English to French
Not to alter your decision but... May 29, 2003

Ivan Eikås Skjøstad wrote:
My conclusion is that Wordfast is the only CAT I have used that will propagate, and run a quality check for glossaries. Therefore I will switch back to Wordfast for assignments working in Word, and use Trados (TagEditor) for HTML, mif-files etc.


Hi Ivan,
Did you know that yves - wordfast's developper - has been working on a new sputnik mode that allows you to work with Trados while running all the functions of wordfast in the background - without conflicting shortcuts and stuff - including the concordancer, and a bunch of other stuff like going back one segment with a shortcut, or forcing segments, accessing dictionnaries,...

In fact, you can considerably improve on trados using a mere demo version of wordfast in "sputnik" mode - look for the switch in PB. Maybe you should give that a try. I think you can get wordfast to propagate while working with Trados too.

I don't have any reason to use Trados, so I didn't try it out, but all tradosphiles should be interested.


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:39
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you May 31, 2003


Hi Ivan,
Did you know that yves - wordfast's developper - has been working on a new sputnik mode that allows you to work with Trados while running all the functions of wordfast in the background - without conflicting shortcuts and stuff - including the concordancer, and a bunch of other stuff like going back one segment with a shortcut, or forcing segments, accessing dictionnaries,...

In fact, you can considerably improve on trados using a mere demo version of wordfast in "sputnik" mode - look for the switch in PB. Maybe you should give that a try. I think you can get wordfast to propagate while working with Trados too.


Now I have checked it out. Using ver 3.35x I now realise that Wordfast has improved even more since my last (and free) download. I like the dictionaries being more visable, and the possibility to edit them within Wordfast. Excellent!

Only one thing: Propagate does not function together with Trados' template within Word. Hopefully someone could prove me wrong:)

For all the other Wordfast extras that work; BRAVO.

[Edited at 2003-05-31 16:25]


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