| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17] > | The global TM I want... Thread poster: Felipe Gútiez Velasco
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Andrea Riffo 
Chile
Local time: 10:12
English to Spanish
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I didn't know that threads were propietary
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Andrea Riffo wrote:
I didn't know that threads were propietary
What do you mean? Sorry, I don´t understand
| | | | | Another thread to make a balance...:-) | Aug 27, 2008 |
I have realised that almost anybody in this issue fears that she/he is going to loose and that is why the global TM is basically opposed.
I will open a new thread. It is called New sources of translation work, just to compensate the poor prospects that a global TM arouse.
There will be so much translation in the future that any of us will be booked up and looking for a global TM to get any help available to be able to face up to so much work.
Hope you will... See more I have realised that almost anybody in this issue fears that she/he is going to loose and that is why the global TM is basically opposed.
I will open a new thread. It is called New sources of translation work, just to compensate the poor prospects that a global TM arouse.
There will be so much translation in the future that any of us will be booked up and looking for a global TM to get any help available to be able to face up to so much work.
Hope you will join ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Unfortunately I'm swamped today | Aug 27, 2008 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Is anyone willing to pay 30 Dollars/month for having a global TM available? .... to keep it out of my way. Most of the TMs that I get sent to work with are lamentable. Likewise most of the revision I get sent. I see no evidence thus far to think that any global TM would be anything other than a steaming heap of crud. Indeed, if anything, that is my hope for any such global TM - that it is full of such utter bilge that there is no cost saving nor any rise in quality and that the whole idea is quickly scrapped as unworkable.
I agree with Charlie and many here but not with Felipe. It seems that we all have very different ideas. Personally, I think the ideas of a single global TM tool is stupid and potentially illegal, let alone highly unethical. I don't want to be part of it.
What I suggest is to create a database of TMs (regardless of the CAT tool used to created them; we already have .tmx) that will help translators. Many of us run across phrases and sentences that we've translated probably dozens of times: legalese, manuals, companies' statements, certificates, etc. Basically terms, phrases and sentences very generic that we have to translate constantly. We could use open source or non-copyrighted files.
I really like Samuel's ideas, but the question is how could we implement that. I mean, the TMs would have to have a very strict standards to maintain a level of confidentiality and quality control. A QA team of translators (at least in the begging) could asses that, implementing a rating system like Viktoria suggested. Once a TM reaches certain score, the TM is made public for its members.
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| For those who are taking this seriously | Aug 27, 2008 |
Could we focus in doing what's best for our profession instead of a "great business" opportunity?
The point of these threads is to face a problem that we all might face. TAUS et al. could really affect the way we all do business, and we need to do something. It seems to me that Felipe just wants to start a profitable adventure. I thin... See more Could we focus in doing what's best for our profession instead of a "great business" opportunity?
The point of these threads is to face a problem that we all might face. TAUS et al. could really affect the way we all do business, and we need to do something. It seems to me that Felipe just wants to start a profitable adventure. I think that this whatever comes out of this exchange of ideas should remain non-profitable in order to benefit us all. Otherwise, we could just buy questionable TMs from other sources. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Steaming cr** | Aug 27, 2008 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
Most of the TMs that I get sent to work with are lamentable. Likewise most of the revision I get sent. I see no evidence thus far to think that any global TM would be anything other than a steaming heap of crud.
Charlie, you are far too optimistic. I expect much less than that from a global TM. Why would I want to see scads more of the kind of material I reject every week?
Except for very narrow, specific subject areas, all I can think of doing with such material is printing it out and using it as toilet paper. If someone offers me complete, aligned, official translations of the BGB, HGB and other German legal frameworks, I'll bite perhaps, because that would save me a bit of research time, and for that sort of material one should work with the "official" translations as long as they are not actually wrong. But as soon as you start extending the scope to, say, DIN standards, you've lost me, because the titles of those texts alone indicate monkeys at work in many cases.
Collaboration is often vastly overrated. It is certainly a good thing with small, focused teams with competent people and a limited mission. Once you start involving the masses, things become very complex and quality becomes potentially disastrous.
Some of us spend far too much time worrying about the impact of stuff like TAUS. If you are a truly competent translator with a bit of breadth, the impact will be zilch or close to that. As for the hyperactive predictions that we'll all be forced to accept piece rates that are 40% lower in a year, I am willing to take on bets that my average rate will remain the same or go up by this time next year - regardless of what happens with the economies of Europe, the Americas and Australia.
[Edited at 2008-08-27 16:28]
| | | | | Samuel, do you want to make a Wiky ? | Aug 27, 2008 |
Hi, Samuel, I saw your wiky on another thread and was brilliant.
Would you/or anyone else like to make a wiky on this thread?
By the way, again a question:
Ist it really true that Logoport is translating 60 million words/month and has 14.000 translators?
There should be one of them here. Anyone can give us some information about Logoport?
| | | | | Info on Logoport | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Ist it really true that Logoport is translating 60 million words/month and has 14.000 translators?
There should be one of them here. Anyone can give us some information about Logoport?
On Logoport, from a Reuters's news clip:
"Logoport is the only online translation tool that unites thousands of translators in real-time collaboration, enables virtual workgroup configuration across the globe, and updates all data instantaneously. The Logoport translator community continues to grow with more than 2,000 translators accessing the system each day. Average monthly production volumes have nearly doubled from 36 million words in January 2007, to more than 60 million words in recent months. In total, almost 500 million words were translated interactively using the Logoport platform in 2007, in addition to the several hundred million words automatically translated at reduced or no cost by leveraging translation memories (TM)."
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS163067%2020-Feb-2008%20PRN20080220
In short, they add 2 million words per day, from work done for their own clients (they use Logoport internally as we use Trados, thus without generating any confidentiality issue) and the resulting macro TM has gone through some internal quality check. At least is of some uniform quality, which has allowed them to get and keep clients such as Bayer, Cisco, DuPont, GE, Google, IBM, Merck, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nokia, Pfizer, Sony, and Wal-Mart. See the following:
"Lionbridge, founded in 1996, has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on acquisitions and other growth strategies, and has the client list (Bayer, Cisco, DuPont, GE, Google, IBM, Merck, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nokia, Pfizer, Sony, and Wal-Mart are a few of the big names) and revenues ($452 million in 2007) to show for it. With 4,600 employees in 45 offices around the world and a network of 25,000 freelance translators skilled in more than 200 languages, the company is three times the size of its closest competitor in the localization business."
http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/05/28/why-isnt-lionbridge-king-of-the-globalization-jungle/
[Edited at 2008-08-27 17:06]
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| A wiki won't do it | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Hi, Samuel, I saw your wiky on another thread and was brilliant.
Would you/or anyone else like to make a wiky on this thread?
I assume you mean the global TM is to be created in the form of a wiki? I don't think a wiki is the ideal format for it. A wiki is a collaborative effort, yes, but you can hardly call it a social networking site.
| | | | | My question still unanswered... | Aug 27, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Just a more question:
Have you asked permission to your clients in order to make a question at KudoZ each time you did? Did they know that you were publishing part of their document in Internet? may be some brandnew term? and that anybody could be aware of what language was it being translated in?
But Felipe, this still leaves my question unanswered: What did your customers say when you told them you intend to share the TMs you use for their jobs?
| | | | | Thank you Luis | Aug 27, 2008 |
Luis Arri Cibils wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Ist it really true that Logoport is translating 60 million words/month and has 14.000 translators?
There should be one of them here. Anyone can give us some information about Logoport? On Logoport, from a Reuters's news clip: "Logoport is the only online translation tool that unites thousands of translators in real-time collaboration, enables virtual workgroup configuration across the globe, and updates all data instantaneously. The Logoport translator community continues to grow with more than 2,000 translators accessing the system each day. Average monthly production volumes have nearly doubled from 36 million words in January 2007, to more than 60 million words in recent months. In total, almost 500 million words were translated interactively using the Logoport platform in 2007, in addition to the several hundred million words automatically translated at reduced or no cost by leveraging translation memories (TM)." http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS163067%2020-Feb-2008%20PRN20080220 In short, they add 2 million words per day, from work done for their own clients (they use Logoport internally as we use Trados, thus without generating any confidentiality issue) and the resulting macro TM has gone through some internal quality check. At least is of some uniform quality, which has allowed them to get and keep clients such as Bayer, Cisco, DuPont, GE, Google, IBM, Merck, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nokia, Pfizer, Sony, and Wal-Mart. See the following: "Lionbridge, founded in 1996, has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on acquisitions and other growth strategies, and has the client list (Bayer, Cisco, DuPont, GE, Google, IBM, Merck, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nokia, Pfizer, Sony, and Wal-Mart are a few of the big names) and revenues ($452 million in 2007) to show for it. With 4,600 employees in 45 offices around the world and a network of 25,000 freelance translators skilled in more than 200 languages, the company is three times the size of its closest competitor in the localization business." http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/05/28/why-isnt-lionbridge-king-of-the-globalization-jungle/ [Edited at 2008-08-27 17:06]
Thank your very much for the useful information. The thing is bigger than I thought. And still, anyone of the 25.000 translators out there who want to tell us if it is really good and useful? Anyone has seen and touched Logoport?
| | | | | Wiki or summary, it would be interesting to have an overall view of this thread | Aug 27, 2008 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Hi, Samuel, I saw your wiky on another thread and was brilliant.
Would you/or anyone else like to make a wiky on this thread? I assume you mean the global TM is to be created in the form of a wiki? I don't think a wiki is the ideal format for it. A wiki is a collaborative effort, yes, but you can hardly call it a social networking site.
Sorry, maybe I have expressed myself not good enough. Sorry.
I saw that you made a summary with the best contributions in another thread. And I thought that this contribution, the summary, was brilliant.
There are some dispersed ideas in this thread, the thread "The global TM I want...". It would be a good idea to collect this ideas in a summary.
In the thread where you made a summary, you called it a wiki. That is why I used the same term, wiki.
In any case I think that you could do that if you like it. And not everybody have such an ability for summarising in an unbiased way. I cannot do it that good.
This is the thread you summarize in november 2007:
Now for the ProZwiki page... Nov 15, 2007
Okay, so let's summarise this thread. I've written the following, for the ProZwiki. Please add anything you'd like to add or suggest changes.
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Remembering all your passwords
Translators have to remember passwords for a variety of online services, and it is not always wise to use the same password for all sites. In fact, some sites may require stronger passwords than the one you normally use. In time some of your passwords may also become known if the site where you registered, send password reminders in clear text. But not only passwords but other details such as usernames and login URLs need to be remembered. What is the best way to remember all of these details?
= Programs that remember passwords =
* Roboform http://www.roboform.com/
Roboform is a standalone password manager. Not only does it remember all your login names and passwords, but it can fill online forms for you as well. There is also a USB flash drive version. The free version can remember up to 10 passwords. The paid version is USD 30 (+ USD 20 for the flash drive version).
* Darn! Passwords http://www.darnpasswords.com/
30-day trial version. USD 15 or USD 25 depending on version bought.
* KeePass http://keepass.info/
Opensource, and there is a portable version too. Runs on Windows, Linux, Mac, Symbian, Blackberry, PocketPC etc.
* Symantec's Norton Internet Security has an integrated password manager
* Web browsers
Most web browsers have built-in password managing services, these days. Some web browsers are portable and can be kept on a USB flash drive. You can store your passwords in the password manager of such a portable browser. Both Firefox and Opera have portable versions.
= Write them down =
The simplest and one of the most secure method of remembering passwords, is to write them down on paper. Keep all your passwords and other user information in a little notebook and keep the notebook in a secure location. You can also use various tricks to confuse anyone who might steal the notebook, but be careful -- what may seem clever to use, may be obvious to the thief.
You can also keep the passwords in a plain text file on a USB flash drive, and for added security, zip the file and give it a password that you're certain you'll never forget.
Another writing down method is to create a page (a printout, perhaps) that contains no passwords, but only clues about the passwords which hopefully no-one might be able to figure unless they know you and your group of acquaintences well. Yet another way to remember passwords is to write clues in multiple languages.
= Ask for it =
Most sites or services that require passwords have a function for retrieving the password. Some will simply send the password via e-mail, whereas others will display the password after you've answered a few questions about yourself. In some cases, a new random password is generated and you have to change the password when you log in again.
= Have a naming scheme system =
One method to make sure you don't forget passwords, is to use the same root password plus certain letters or clues about the service you're registering for. Change the password every month or so, and visit all the sites where you have passwords, to change the passwords there. If you forget to update a password, you can always try the old passwords. For example, if your root password is "money" (a very bad password, by the way), and you register a proz.com account, your password could be pr_money_om or prmoneyom.
= Password creation strategies =
A secure password is one with at least 6 to 8 characters containing letters, numbers and "special" characters that do not contain a dictionary word or a common proper name. Difficult? Yes, but you can fake it by taking a favourite phrase and encoding it. For example, take "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog". The first letter of each word is T Q B F J O T L D. Now take every second letter and turn it into a number -- for example, take the number that is above it on the keyboard. Now you have T 1 B 4 J 9 T 9 D. Next, write the letters altenately uppercase and lower case. Now you have T 1 b 4 J 9 t 9 D. To add the final flourish, change one of the characters into a special character... that "1" can be replaced with a pipe character, "|" for example. And for good measure, add a special character like "@" to the end of the password. The final password is T|b4J9t9D@, and it is easy to remember.
= Questions to answer: =
* How safe is Windows' builtin password manager?
* How to write easy to remember but hard to guess passwords?
* What are the most common easy to guess passwords?
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| Logoport? Interesting calculation...uhm.... | Aug 27, 2008 |
Luis Arri Cibils wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Ist it really true that Logoport is translating 60 million words/month and has 14.000 translators?
There should be one of them here. Anyone can give us some information about Logoport? On Logoport, from a Reuters's news clip: "Logoport is the only online translation tool that unites thousands of translators in real-time collaboration, enables virtual workgroup configuration across the globe, and updates all data instantaneously. The Logoport translator community continues to grow with more than 2,000 translators accessing the system each day. Average monthly production volumes have nearly doubled from 36 million words in January 2007, to more than 60 million words in recent months. In total, almost 500 million words were translated interactively using the Logoport platform in 2007, in addition to the several hundred million words automatically translated at reduced or no cost by leveraging translation memories (TM)." http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS163067%2020-Feb-2008%20PRN20080220 In short, they add 2 million words per day, from work done for their own clients (they use Logoport internally as we use Trados, thus without generating any confidentiality issue) and the resulting macro TM has gone through some internal quality check. At least is of some uniform quality, which has allowed them to get and keep clients such as Bayer, Cisco, DuPont, GE, Google, IBM, Merck, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nokia, Pfizer, Sony, and Wal-Mart. See the following: "Lionbridge, founded in 1996, has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on acquisitions and other growth strategies, and has the client list (Bayer, Cisco, DuPont, GE, Google, IBM, Merck, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nokia, Pfizer, Sony, and Wal-Mart are a few of the big names) and revenues ($452 million in 2007) to show for it. With 4,600 employees in 45 offices around the world and a network of 25,000 freelance translators skilled in more than 200 languages, the company is three times the size of its closest competitor in the localization business." http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/05/28/why-isnt-lionbridge-king-of-the-globalization-jungle/ [Edited at 2008-08-27 17:06]
some calculations:
2000 translator/day (connnecting) 2 million words/day = 1000 words/day per translator. Not very much isn´t?
60 million/24.000 translators=2500 words/month. Not very much isn`t?
In any case,
is it really that good? It works?
| | | | | I think this should be possible as an option, why not? | Aug 28, 2008 |
Luis Arri Cibils wrote:
The system must be completely unable to record the TUs I sent to be translated and their translations. (Is it at all feasible?) Otherwise, the translator will have to ask the client's authorization to use it.
[Edited at 2008-08-26 22:50]
There should be possible. Any technical specialist out there?
| | | | | What is IMO? in my opinion? | Aug 28, 2008 |
[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:
FarkasAndras wrote:
Some translators have this idea that the bigger the TM, the more potentially useful it will be. But IMO a global TM needn't be just one big TM. A good global TM would be one in which you could zoom in on the specific subject field and document type that you're translating. So IMO a global TM would not be a single TM, but a collection of thousands of groups of TMs.
[Editado a las 2008-08-28 10:52]
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