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Do (some) CAT programs handle translation into more than one language at a time?
Thread poster: Alexandre Coutu
Alexandre Coutu
Canada
Local time: 14:06
English to French
Mar 20, 2009

Do (some) CAT programs handle translation into more than one language at a time?

Say I'm asked to translate a Japanese text into BOTH English and French...

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-03-20 14:41 GMT]


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 22:06
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
Yes Mar 20, 2009

There are network versions for simultaneous translation into several languages.

Even local TM may contain several target languages...


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 22:06
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Deja Vu X Mar 20, 2009

When creating a project with Deja Vu X, you can select several target languages. And during translation, you can switch from one target language to another easily.

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Alexandre Coutu
Canada
Local time: 14:06
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
2 languages at the same time by the same translator Mar 20, 2009

Sergei, I meant that I intended to translate into 2 languages myself, at the same time.

Selcuk, can you view both translations at the same time? Actually, can you view all 3 segments at once -- source, and both target segments?


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 22:06
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
No Mar 20, 2009

Alexandre Coutu wrote:

Selcuk, can you view both translations at the same time? Actually, can you view all 3 segments at once -- source, and both target segments?


You have to switch to the other target language using a drop-down menu.


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Alexandre Coutu
Canada
Local time: 14:06
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Working on 2 separate computers at once? Mar 20, 2009

Surprising. Would you be forced to work on 2 separate computers at once to achieve that?

I work with wordfast and you can't use the program simultaneously in 2 differents documents (unless it's because I'm using the same TM, not sure).


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 22:06
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
possible, but... Mar 20, 2009

... not at the same time... I mean you cannot translate segment A0 into target A1 and A2, then B0 into B1 and B2 etc...

But you can translate the whole file into the first target and then switch the target language in the same TM (actually, ad the second target) to translate into the second target.


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RieM  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:06
English to Japanese
+ ...
With DejaVu, yes you can Mar 20, 2009

... open multiple instances on a single computer and run them simultaneously, opening the same project file. If you write in one project, and update the other, the same data is reflected. Very cool

I have never use it extensively in this manner or with more than two language settings, though, and so I'm not sure how it behaves when it comes to consecutive reads/writes from/to both instances. Test drive yourself (one month free, with full features!).

Regards

Rie


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Alexandre Coutu
Canada
Local time: 14:06
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Time consuming Mar 20, 2009

Translating the same file twice would take longer than translating once into 2 languages. Well, I think so anyway. That's the main reason why this would be useful.

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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 22:06
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
Why longer?! Mar 20, 2009

It take the same time, as you type the same amount of target text, but AAAAA and BBBBB instead of ABABABAB... Same time.

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Alexandre Coutu
Canada
Local time: 14:06
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Duplication of thinking process Mar 20, 2009

Longer because you need to read the source texte twice and think about the meaning twice. It would be faster to read it once, understand it once, and translate that into two languages one after the other.

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Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:06
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
That would be very efficient Mar 21, 2009

Alexandre Coutu wrote:

Longer because you need to read the source texte twice and think about the meaning twice. It would be faster to read it once, understand it once, and translate that into two languages one after the other.


I wish my brain could work like that.

In the old days Yves Champollion would have programmed a Wordfast solution with a secret Pandora's Box command like TriLingual or NeedForSpeech. But then the word would get out and users would start complaining about disadvantages.

I wish you luck but I think switching between instances might be required.

Regards,
Gerard


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KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 20:06
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Efficient? Really? Mar 21, 2009

Alexandre Coutu wrote:
It would be faster to read it once, understand it once, and translate that into two languages one after the other.


The second time through you will already know the text, so you'll probably be more efficient anyway. Just work in blocks that are suited to your memory.

Personally, I would be concerned about "crosstalk" if I tried to translate into multiple language simultaneously. A few decades ago when my active languages included Russian and Japanese, I found that I had difficulty when switching quickly between the languages. The mixups were often funny at parties with a multilingual, international group, but they would have made me look very unprofessional at work. When I focused on two languages at a time I seldom had problems - everything stayed "clean". Maybe that's just my problem.


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:06
French to Polish
+ ...
A little bit off topic... DVX... Mar 21, 2009

Kevin Lossner wrote:

Alexandre Coutu wrote:
It would be faster to read it once, understand it once, and translate that into two languages one after the other.


The second time through you will already know the text, so you'll probably be more efficient anyway. Just work in blocks that are suited to your memory. Personally, I would be concerned about "crosstalk" if I tried to translate into multiple language simultaneously.

It depends.
I have no problems to translate simultaneously standard software strings into two or more languages but it's completely different for complex sentences, when you must deal with style etc.

A few decades ago when my active languages included Russian and Japanese, I found that I had difficulty when switching quickly between the languages.

Ehm.
Many years ago, after some months in Catalonia, I was enough conditionned to switch from Spanish to Catalan (dialects of Barcelona/Valencia) or vice versa after a "trigger" i.e. a word or a sentence in other language.
Without major problems.
It's a normal comportment in bilingual/diglossic societies.
For me, the problem is I generalized this comportment and I switch too quickly

PS.
The first two, three weeks were crazy.
Imagine, you're with 10 persons at a table and you don't have a f!#$g idea which language a person will use.
E.g., in theory, A is Catalan and should speak Catalan to B (Catalan) but he starts to speaks Spanish because C (Castillian) is listening and both A and B respect C.
Then C starts to speak Catalan 'cause he respects A and B (and they're in majority), then all the people start to speak Catalan, then some of them quotes D (Castillian), then continue a moment in Castillian etc.
If B don't likes C, he'll speak only in Catalan.
Multiply by 10.
Or rather calculate the factorial (10!)

The mixups were often funny at parties with a multilingual, international group,


The problem with bilingual/diglossic comportments is they're highly unconscious.
E.g., one language is private, the other is public and/or hostile.
For me, the "private" language was the Catalan, the "hostile" one was the Spanish.
And here, I had a crazy transfert.
As a citizen of every (post)communist country in Europe, I learned Russian.
Unlike most of my fellow citizens, I speak and read Russian
It's not perfect (oh, no...) but it's enough to communicate.
But in a multilingual context, I almost always started to speak Spanish to Russians.
Simply, they were not of us

but they would have made me look very unprofessional at work. When I focused on two languages at a time I seldom had problems - everything stayed "clean". Maybe that's just my problem.

Generally, I think Kevin is right.

But if you insist, the best solution is to use two DVX instances, as Selcuk Akyuz and Rie Matsuda proposed.
You switch beteween 'em using Alt-Tab, so it's really quick.

It your target langages are relatively close (let's say, FR and SP), you can use a trick.
You can translate your text into one language (e.g. FR), then export your translation memory, create a second TM and import the contents as a fake second language (SP).
As you can use two TMs in DVX Professional, you declare SP is your main TM, and the fake SP (FR) is the second.
You'll have hits you may find useful (or disturbing).
I did it sometimes but I used "fake" termbases instead of TMs.

Cheers
GG


[Edited at 2009-03-21 09:42 GMT]


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Valters Feists  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 22:06
English to Latvian
+ ...
"Workarounds" Mar 21, 2009

Alexandre Coutu wrote:
Would you be forced to work on 2 separate computers at once to achieve that?


(A) Use two different CAT tools, in a setup where they don't interfere with each other;
or
(B) if the operating system allows, use two separate non-interfering instances of the same CAT tool (or even several virtualised operating systems running in parallel, with a CAT tool in each);
or
(C) work in a three-column Word or Excel table (if the document is almost plain-text with relatively few CAT matches), and when finished, import the table to a TM;
or
(D) work with one CAT programme and one TM, but translate each segment into the two languages, then at the end make two clean target documents by deleting one of the languages (maybe use font colours or some kind of tags while translating so that the deletion can be automated).

Of course, your efficiency mileage may vary...
The complexity and size of the document and the ease of switching and cleaning are factors here.
Maybe translating twice is still an option.


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