Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Looking for THE simplest way for older people to still be able to use a CAT tool. Thread poster: Michael Beijer
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Equating "old" with "incapable of dealing with computer stuff" is, on the one hand, kind of an insult and, on the other hand, not even true, not even in a correlation sense: Why not just start a forum for people who are dumb with computers? Seriously. | | | Heinrich Pesch Finland Local time: 14:34 Member (2003) Finnish to German + ... You mean people who need training | Oct 22, 2010 |
If someone has difficulty learning let's say Wordfast Classic on his/her own they should take a course. After that they will know the stuff. There are many occasions where training is provided, even free of charge, I believe those Proz conferences are among them. There are tools for visiting on another person's computer and advice the user over the telephone at the same time. But probably those tools are not cheap, so one would need trainees to pay. There's no f... See more If someone has difficulty learning let's say Wordfast Classic on his/her own they should take a course. After that they will know the stuff. There are many occasions where training is provided, even free of charge, I believe those Proz conferences are among them. There are tools for visiting on another person's computer and advice the user over the telephone at the same time. But probably those tools are not cheap, so one would need trainees to pay. There's no free lunch I'm afraid. ▲ Collapse | | | Learning is a must | Oct 22, 2010 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote: In any case, and on a more practical level: any tips/links about THE EASIEST, most foolproof CAT tools would be more than welcome! Hm... I reckon Wordfast is in theory the simplest one. MemoQ is really easy to use, but you need to know something about CAT tools already to exploit it to the maximum. Training is a must in any job. You cannot fix a car just with a screwdriver, the same way you cannot translate tagged formats and complex files just with MS Word. Learning new technologies is unavoidable in any industry, translation included. Our role as frequent users of a tool should be helping friends and colleagues, but these people should also feel the urge to learn and advance. | | | NMR (X) France Local time: 13:34 French to Dutch + ... Wordfast Anywhere | Oct 22, 2010 |
I agree with Tomas, Wordfast (Classic, the Word plug-in) should be the easiest one. Michael, did you play around with Wordfast Anywhere, the online solution?
[Modifié le 2010-10-22 20:30 GMT] | |
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Money and time... | Oct 22, 2010 |
Kevin Fulton wrote: The second factor is financial. Trados SDL products, DVX, MemoQ and Transit all require significant investment of time and money. You can always spot an "entry level" software. e.g. the one year memoQ Standard license (50 euro, AFAIR) or the furthcoming DVX2 Standard (two times more expensive but permanent). Or Metatexis, if you prefer work in Word. A beginner (with good general IT skills) is able to start after a short training, let's say 3-4 hours, as my postgraduate students do. Of course, they will not be XML/DTP experts but they should be able to work with most standard MS Office documents. The age really is secondary here, I saw some 50+ year old persons able to start in a breeze and some 20+ unable to understand the basic concepts. The key is the software ergonomy. E.g. if you want to explain the terminology management using Multiterm, you may be sure you'll miss your goal. Last year I bought MemoQ, but I had to consider whether a long-term investment in software would make sense, as I already owned DVX and Trados SDL 2007. Since I have no possibility of retiring I decided to buy the product (are there any retired translators? It seems there are only working translators and dead ones). In fact, all the "retired" translators I know are still working... Cheers GG | | | Samuel Murray Netherlands Local time: 13:34 Member (2006) English to Afrikaans + ... Basic computer literacy | Oct 22, 2010 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote: There are many translators out there, a lot of them of the older generation, who are constantly hearing that they should "use a tool". They try. They fail. They try again. They fail. And so they end up giving up, and possibly also hating the very idea of using a CAT tool. Personally I think one should not try to find a tool that does it all, but rather focus on why people struggle with these tools. I suspect many people lack basic computer literacy. Translators are expected to know a little bit more about what goes on under the hood of their computers. Simple things like navigting through directory structures, and recognising different file types and knowing how file types work, are crucial to being able to use a computer properly, yet many introduction to computer courses gloss over these things and instead focus on using the various graphical elements within programs (instead of that which happens between programs or outside of programs). | | | Michael Beijer United Kingdom Local time: 12:34 Member (2009) Dutch to English + ... TOPIC STARTER
MSBerlin wrote: Equating "old" with "incapable of dealing with computer stuff" is, on the one hand, kind of an insult and, on the other hand, not even true, not even in a correlation sense: Why not just start a forum for people who are dumb with computers? Seriously. Yes, I see your point. I was only using the title of my thread as shorthand for an idea that I had not thought out yet very rigorously. However, I do think that the idea of a forum dedicated to these hard-to-define characters would be a very good idea. If anyone else agrees, PLEASE pitch in ideas for a Title, and a Short Description for in the http://www.proz.com/forum/categories area. ************** Title: "CATs for Dummies*" Description: "Translators -young or old- who are, for whatever reason, either bad at, afraid or sceptical of (or any possible combination of the above) CAT tools, and who would like to learn how to use them." ************** Please note: I am also using the term "CAT" very loosely. I didn't use the perhaps better term "TEnT", partially because I can never remember where the capitals go, and also because this term would only isolate the non-CAT tool users even more. Furthermore, when I say CAT, I also mean to include and discuss things like: ways for people to make use of and not just keep throwing away all of the texts, and word lists, they have already translated in the past. For example, simple ways to save your translations so you can refer to them later on as resources through SIMPLE Alignment, and SIMPLE Glossary production methods. Michael * CAT tool: Computer Assisted Tool * TEnT: Translation Environment Tool | | | apk12 Germany Local time: 13:34 English to German + ... What's the profession of a translator | Oct 22, 2010 |
Grzegorz Gryc wrote: ...Of course, they will not be XML/DTP experts but they should be able to ... Please excuse me but from my point of view, the service provided by a translator is translation. How does a translator want to present the expertise of his/her service if not even the service itself is specialized? These are totally different steps in the workflow of a text translation if treated seriously - DTP is an additional service provided by either the next step in the workflow, done by the next expert specializing in this step or - in case provided by the translator (f he/she chooses not to specialize in translation only) - by thorough parting theses steps (on the invoice). Delivering two services, each of them usually having their own rates, by one and the same person for only one rate, this rate again discounted by some funny fuzzy records an agency PM regards as relevant for an invoice is just the opposite of professionalism as I understand this term. Just my 2 Eurocent.
[Edited at 2010-10-22 14:06 GMT] | |
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Peter Linton (X) Local time: 12:34 Swedish to English + ... A halfway house | Oct 22, 2010 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote: ...any tips/links about THE EASIEST, most foolproof CAT tools would be more than welcome! As a long-standing CAT user (mostly Trados) I would argue that all CAT tools are relatively complex, with a steep learning curve. So we need to think outside the box to find a solution that is easy, fairly foolproof and familiar. I would advocate starting off with a simpler system altogether, based on a search engine like Google Desktop that enables you to search just the files on your PC. It would not be as automatic as a CAT tool, but would at least make it relatively easy to find similar or identical phrases or sentences. Google Desktop is very efficient at indexing files to improve and speed up the search. This would give novices some idea of what a proper CAT tool does, and make the idea more attractive. Add to that a webinar explaining how to do it, and you might be on to a winner. | | | Much more benefits! | Oct 22, 2010 |
apk12 wrote: Nah, Pablo - you just have to look at it with a positive attitude :] Pablo Bouvier wrote: The use of CAT tools, specially those of «client-server» or «cloud» type only benefits the owner of the server ... ... and our own private CATty translation joke collection. "Oh what a cute segment. Did you know that XY has translators in their databank translating 'safety belts' as 'Gürtel'? Must be an extreme joyful experience to feel safer in a car when fastening your trousers belt." (Which again reminds me of the "time-waisting" thread for whatever obscure fuzzy repeated reason.) But, I have already a positive attitude about CAT tools! It is of the type of help [xxxxx] to combat software piracy. Use free software instead!. And, oh yeah, now all spaniards know how Gürtel is pronounced in German. No digital divide anymore! | | | To close the debate young/old | Oct 22, 2010 |
I can only agree with those elder ones who feel perfectly at ease with computer things. A lot of studies have been published about what is called the "digital natives generation" : those young people born with a computer in their cradles. Surprisingly, because contrary to popular beliefs, this generation is very clever at communicating and creating blogs, sites, etc., but they don't know much about "informatics" itself. They are rarely able to maintain o... See more I can only agree with those elder ones who feel perfectly at ease with computer things. A lot of studies have been published about what is called the "digital natives generation" : those young people born with a computer in their cradles. Surprisingly, because contrary to popular beliefs, this generation is very clever at communicating and creating blogs, sites, etc., but they don't know much about "informatics" itself. They are rarely able to maintain or fix their computers by themselves. They use them, but are not curious about how it works and why it works. We, old salts, had to discover everything at the very begining of the informatic adventure, we had to learn how to master those quite disturbing beats, and most of us were "hooked" and eager for understanding the underlying mechanisms. For instance, I am used to fix my computers myself, to replace the cards and all the elements inside the beast ; even if I hardly know the jargon, I know how to do "physically" the job For those who understand French, I suggest reading this article : http://www.ecrans.fr/Les-jeunes-ne-sont-plus-interesses,9392.html (Funny : even the US Army regrets the growing lack of hackers! ) Oldishly Catherine
[Edited at 2010-10-22 19:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse | | | Michael Beijer United Kingdom Local time: 12:34 Member (2009) Dutch to English + ... TOPIC STARTER CATs for Beginners | Oct 22, 2010 |
The age debate: Catherine has made a very good point about the "digital naive generation," which only reinforces my belief that I should never have chosen age as the criteria for inclusion in my target group. As has been discussed, age is pretty much irrelevant. I therefore propose that we call it: ************** CATs for Beginners Description (something like): CAT tools for beginners is a group aimed at helping translators get t... See more The age debate: Catherine has made a very good point about the "digital naive generation," which only reinforces my belief that I should never have chosen age as the criteria for inclusion in my target group. As has been discussed, age is pretty much irrelevant. I therefore propose that we call it: ************** CATs for Beginners Description (something like): CAT tools for beginners is a group aimed at helping translators get the most out of their computers and resources." ************** People's Suggestions: Peter, that is is exactly what I think we need to try and do: Think outside the box in order to come up with new ways of enabling translators to benefit from their computers, as well as making it more attractive. Also, what you said about Desktop Search is very interesting, and ties in with my idea that the Alignment of people's past jobs would really help them see how something as simple as saving their work in an organised manner can provide a simple and direct way to help them translate. Furthermore, Alignment + Search, although only part of what a CAT (or Translation Environment) provides, would be a lot easier to teach many people than e.g. Tags and separating Content from Form and the like. Samuel: I couldn't agree more with what you said about the importance of basic Computer Literacy. For example, today I spent several hours on Skype explain to my mother how various things on her computer work. One of the best things I was able to help her with was showing her how to get the most out of her browser. Things like Bookmarks for useful online dictionaries, and how to save your work in an organised way on your computer from within Gmail. These things don't sound like CAT tool things to most people, but these are exactly the kind of things that can help people a lot, and are what I am trying to suggest we create a forum for. Michael ▲ Collapse | |
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Déjà Vu X professional - particular classes for beginners | Jan 29, 2011 |
Hello It would be interested in finding a person who could give me basic particular classes to be able to use this translation tool. The idea of for "CAT's for beginners" is a very good purpose, the problem is that I do not have time for displacements. I reside in Sant Cugat del Vallès (Barcelona) Thank you. Kind regards Carmen Pont | | | Trados tutorial: give it a glance | Jan 29, 2011 |
Michael: The link below are the basics for Trados, and the way I learned to handle this important CAT tool. (If I could, anybody can.) If you download and pay attention, you won't regret it: Trados tutorial | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Looking for THE simplest way for older people to still be able to use a CAT tool. TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
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