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Translating inDesign CS tagged files -> is it possible?
Thread poster: avsie

avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
Jul 15, 2004

Hi all,

I will try to be brief, as this issue has been running since December at my office...

Our Graphic Design department have migrated from Quark XPress to inDesign CS (the "CS" part is very important!;)) in the last few months.

Before this migration, when translating intructions manuals, we were just exporting a XPress tagged file using the CopyFlow plug-in of Quark XPress. Then, we were either use ITP Filter Pack or Wordfast +Tools to filter and prepare the files for translation (mark the tags and lock them).

We are using Wordfast, and very rarely Trados. We see no problem in migrating to another CAT tool if needed, I may add!

For the moment, we are exporting the inDesign files into a PDF, and then simply extracting the text from that PDF into a Word document. The main issue: the designers must then copy and paste all paragraphs back into their inDesign file... you can imagine how much work it is when the manual is made of 164 pages, and is translated into 5 languages!

We have made several attempts to translate XML files (exporting the inDesign file into a XML file and try to tag them using Filter Pack or +Tools), but it completely failed. The tags are just simply not recognised.

We have asked Trados back in January, they said they "might" support it by the 2nd quarter of 2004. Recently, we contacted them again, and they didn't give us any conclusive answer.

We looked on the Internet for plug-ins, and all we have found were sort of corporate private plug-ins.

So I'm asking you if you have heard of a CAT tool, or a plug-in, or ANYTHING which supports inDesign CS (not inDesign 2.0, which is supported by pretty much all current versions of CAT tools)...

Have you experienced that sort of issue?

Btw, FrameMaker isn't an option, since the designers are working in Mac-only environments (and Adobe isn't supporting Mac for FrameMaker anymore).

I don't expect you to find the solution, but if you have any clues, let me know

Marie-Claude

[Edited at 2004-07-15 11:21]

[Edited at 2004-07-15 11:25]


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 01:59
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
XML Jul 15, 2004

Hello,

maybe it is a possibility to use the XML Export / Import functions of InDesign.

Hans


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
We tried... Jul 15, 2004

And unfortunately, it was absolutely not conclusive: for some reason, the XML tags were not recognised, and we were losing paragraph marks: the whole document became one big segment when trying to translate it! Returns were ignored, for example.

When we tried to translate it in Trados using Tag Editor, we got error messages saying that the format wasn't recognised, and that it was missing euh... some coding thing (Arrgh, I wish I could grab a designer right now!) And since none of the designers are familiar with the programming of that coding, it's not an option...

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 01:59
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
XML Jul 15, 2004

Hello,

maybe it is necessary to do some preparations for the XML Export ? I think you must create an adequate structure.

After this i think it will be necessary to create an ini file for your xml export.

If you sent me a xml file, i can take look on it.

Hans


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks! Jul 15, 2004

I'll see what I can do about finding you a file!

I'll get back to you ASAP!


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Roberta Anderson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:59
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
how I handle ID CS files in SDLX Jul 15, 2004

Hi, Marie-Claude.
I asked the same question recently to both Trados and SDL.

Trados told me that ID CS would "soon" be supported, possibly by July (I asked them in June). I will check it out with them again by the end of July.

SDLX support suggested I used as a workaround the Translate From Clipboard feature and sent me a doc that describes the process.
I tried it recently and it worked well for me.
It works best if you have files with few large stories, while it would be unpractical in files with a lot of small unconnected stories (in that case I work directly in InDesign).
It involves opening SDLX/Translate/Translate Clipboard Contents, then in ID do a Select All of a whole story and Copy.
The story appears segmented in the SDLX window, ready to have the TM applied to it and to be translated.
You can save it as an .itd file and reopen it again at a later stage to carry on translating it in SDLX Edit.
At the end of the translation, open the file from the clipboard module (SDLX/Translate/Translate Clipboard Contents, then File/Open) and choose File/Save Translation to Clipboard. In ID select the original whole story again and Paste. All formatting gets retained and you can proceed to standard copyfitting routines.

I'm looking forward to a way of quickly collecting all stories in a single itd file, and flowing back the translation in the right places in ID - but until then this method works well enough (again, as long as the file has only a few, large, easily identifiable stories - which is usually the case with manuals, white papers and similar kind of documents).

HtH,
Roberta

p.s. A quicker way of getting all the text exported from ID, instead of going via the PDF file, might be to try the Export_Stories shareware script, available for download in the Adobe Studio Exchange web site (http://share.studio.adobe.com/), in the InDesign scripts section.

[Edited at 2004-07-15 14:06]


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Roberta! Jul 15, 2004

I'll see with our designers if that would be possible.

We are starting to be quite interested in SDL products, so that might be the key...

I appreciate your help!


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
XML test file Jul 15, 2004

DSC wrote:

Hello,

maybe it is necessary to do some preparations for the XML Export ? I think you must create an adequate structure.

After this i think it will be necessary to create an ini file for your xml export.

If you sent me a xml file, i can take look on it.

Hans


I have sent you a message through your profile. Let me know where I can send you a test file.

Many thanks!


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 01:59
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
News from Trados Jul 15, 2004

Hello,

News from Trados:


...

Indesign CS wird erst mit dem nächsten TRADOS Release unterstützt werden. Diese neue Version (6.5.5) wird ab Ende diesen Monats erhältlich sein.



Viele Grüße
Hans


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Geweldig! Jul 15, 2004

DSC wrote:

Hello,

News from Trados:


...

Indesign CS wird erst mit dem nächsten TRADOS Release unterstützt werden. Diese neue Version (6.5.5) wird ab Ende diesen Monats erhältlich sein.



Viele Grüße
Hans


ahhhh that\'s nice to know. Finally! Something from Trados

Thanks for your help; I will speak to the graphic designers tomorrow regarding your suggestions.

Marie-Claude


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Alan Halls
Germany
Local time: 01:59
German to English
Have you tried Transit? Jul 20, 2004

Hi Marie-Claude
I was interested to see that you used to use Quark and a whole string of converters to get the content into a translatable form. In my office, we use STAR Transit XV for projects like that because there is a direct filter from Quark (up to 5.1) into Transit and back again. Transit also offer a filter for InDesign but I suspect the current support does not include the CS version - yet. Why don't you send an enquiry to STAR and ask them how long it will be before the new filter is available? They are far more flexible than TRADOS, in my opinion. In fact, Transit XV is so much more flexible.....

Cheers
Alan


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Alan Halls
Germany
Local time: 01:59
German to English
News from Transit XV! Jul 20, 2004

Hi again Marie-Claude!

Have just heard (20 July 04 at 09.15 CET) from STAR that Transit XV will support your CS version as from service pack 11. The reason we asked was because one of my customers in Germany had the same problem. I did not ask when SP 11 is due out, though. STAR produce service packs every few months.

I'd be interested to hear how it works out at your end.

Alan


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks! Jul 20, 2004

alanhalls wrote:

Hi Marie-Claude
I was interested to see that you used to use Quark and a whole string of converters to get the content into a translatable form. In my office, we use STAR Transit XV for projects like that because there is a direct filter from Quark (up to 5.1) into Transit and back again. Transit also offer a filter for InDesign but I suspect the current support does not include the CS version - yet. Why don't you send an enquiry to STAR and ask them how long it will be before the new filter is available? They are far more flexible than TRADOS, in my opinion. In fact, Transit XV is so much more flexible.....

Cheers
Alan


Hi Alan,

We are not using Quark anymore, unfortunately! And we were not using a whole lot of converters, just Copy Flow! (a plug-in completely integrated into Quark)

As for the inDesign filter Transit offers, I would need to see when the support is offered. Trados will offer it by the end of this month. We are looking into other solutions, mainly SDL, but I'll see what Transit has to offer...

Thanks!


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Jul 20, 2004

alanhalls wrote:

Hi again Marie-Claude!

Have just heard (20 July 04 at 09.15 CET) from STAR that Transit XV will support your CS version as from service pack 11. The reason we asked was because one of my customers in Germany had the same problem. I did not ask when SP 11 is due out, though. STAR produce service packs every few months.

I\'d be interested to hear how it works out at your end.

Alan


Hi again,

Well, following the posting of this topic, I received an e-mail from a software development company which created a filter for inDesign. I still have to run some tests (the IS department can be so slow sometimes when it comes to installing software...!) but it looks promising.

Let\'s see


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Jarrah  Identity Verified
German to English
+ ...
Transit SP 11 out Jul 22, 2004

Hi Alan,


Have just heard (20 July 04 at 09.15 CET) from STAR that Transit XV will support your CS version as from service pack 11. The reason we asked was because one of my customers in Germany had the same problem. I did not ask when SP 11 is due out, though. STAR produce service packs every few months.


SP11 was released at the end of May and is available from the STAR site.

Regards,
Jarrah


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