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Off topic: '万里长城'与'黄帝的子孙'
Thread poster: chica nueva

chica nueva
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Apr 12, 2008

人类建筑史上罕见的工程 - 长城

雄伟壮观的长城,横亘我国北部河山,是人类建筑史上罕见的古军事防御工程.宇航员在天外观察我们居住生意其上的这个星球的时候,用肉眼只能辨认出全球上两项特大工程,一项就是我国的万里长城,另一项是荷兰的围 海大堤.

长城,是中华民族的象征.她庄重,刚毅,坚贞.侨胞们不远万里回到祖国,登上长城,四野了望祖国山河,往往激动得止不住热泪盈眶.是啊,我们都是黄帝的子孙,几千年光辉灿烂的文化,把海外赤子的心紧紧的跟伟大 祖国联系在一起.

王永宽等,'祖国',中国青年出版社,北京,1983

http://www.66china.com.cn/n49622c479.aspx
黄帝故里-郑州旅游景点



[Edited at 2008-04-13 03:31]

[Edited at 2008-04-13 03:32]

[Edited at 2008-04-13 04:53]

[Edited at 2008-04-13 06:31]


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chica nueva
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黄帝与蚩尤; epic; Iliad/Odyssey/Aeneid Apr 13, 2008

据史书记载,黄帝是由熊国君少典之子,姓公孙,名轩辕,生于神农之世.当时,神农氏衰老,诸侯互相攻伐,暴虐百姓,而蚩尤最为凶暴,但神农氏不能征伐.于是黄帝率兵和蚩尤战于涿鹿之野,擒杀蚩尤.诸侯就推举黄帝代替神农氏.

至于神话传说中黄帝大战蚩尤的故事,更是神奇.在这些传说中,黄帝和蚩尤都成了半神半人似的人物.当蚩尤和黄帝作战时,蚩尤竟然请来了风伯雨师,自己又作大雾,还役使了许多魔怪参战.而黄帝也请来了神女助战,作指南车对付大雾,又令人吹号角作龙吟,唬走了魔怪,终于战胜了蚩尤.

王永宽等,'祖国',中国青年出版社,北京,1983

It reminds me of the battle between Aeneus and Turnus in Virgil's 'Aeneid', so I call it 'epic'.

http://www.66china.com.cn/n49622c479.aspx
黄帝故里-郑州旅游景点


[Edited at 2008-04-13 04:17]

[Edited at 2008-04-13 04:19]

[Edited at 2008-04-13 12:39]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Mythologies, Epics and Sagas Apr 13, 2008

lai an wrote:

据史书记载,黄帝是由熊国君少典之子,姓公孙,名轩辕,生于神农之世.当时,神农氏衰老,诸侯互相攻伐,暴虐百姓,而蚩尤最为凶暴,但神农氏不能征伐.于是黄帝率兵和蚩尤战于涿鹿之野,擒杀蚩尤.诸侯就推举黄帝代替神农氏.

至于神话传说中黄帝大战蚩尤的故事,更是神奇.在这些传说中,黄帝和蚩尤都成了半神半人似的人物.当蚩尤和黄帝作战时,蚩尤竟然请来了风伯雨师,自己又作大雾,还役使了许多魔怪参战.而黄帝也请来了神女助战,作指南车对付大雾,又令人吹号角作龙吟,唬走了魔怪,终于战胜了蚩尤.

王永宽等,'祖国',中国青年出版社,北京,1983

It reminds me of the battle between Aeneus and Turnus in the 'Aeneid', so I call it 'epic'.


Mythologies, epics and sagas are interesting for understanding human minds. Almost each of the folks has its own, but their basis structures are much of the same. That is why the depiction of the battle between 黄帝 and 蚩尤 is in principle similar to that between Aeneus and Turnus: Justification of the victory, the foundation of an empire, etc. No matter how beautifully written, we read in them the same cruelty and savageness of modern wars. It is another way of thinking which led to the foundation of the Commonwealth and the foundation of the European Union. Some folks need more time for such thinking and only when they have to experience the consequences of defeat and victory as the same.


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chica nueva
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人类建筑史上罕见的工程 - 长城 Apr 13, 2008

人类建筑史上罕见的工程 - 长城

雄伟壮观的长城,横亘我国北部河山,是人类建筑史上罕见的古军事防御工程.宇航员在天外观察我们居住生意其上的这个星球的时候,用肉眼只能辨认出全球上两项特大工程,一项就是我国的万里长城,另一项是荷兰的围 海大堤.

长城,是中华民族的象征.她庄重,刚毅,坚贞.侨胞们不远万里回到祖国,登上长城,四野了望祖国山河,往往激动得止不住热泪盈眶.是啊,我们都是黄帝的子孙,几千年光辉灿烂的文化,把海外赤子的心紧紧的跟伟大 祖国联系在一起.

人们大多以为筑场城是秦始皇开的头,其实这是一个误解.早在秦以前的战国时代,就已经开始修筑长城.当时,我国北方激烈痛苦的民族纷战连年不断,同时也出现了诸侯争霸,穷兵黩武的纷乱局面,于是各诸侯国纷纷修筑长城,外御强敌,内保统治.至今天,还保存着燕,赵,魏,齐各诸侯国长城的遗迹.燕长城西起河北独石口,东到辽宁东用它防御匈奴和东胡.赵长城西起内蒙古临河县,东到河北蔚县,主要防御林胡和楼烦.魏长城北起黄河后套,南接陕西华山,用来防御匈奴和秦.齐长城西起山东境内的黄河,沿泰山到诸城,主要防御吴和楚.

秦始皇统一了中国以后,
...

从汉朝一直到明朝,所建长城无论从长度,工程质量和工程规模上,都远远超过秦长城.起先墙身都用土或土中夹杂小石子夯筑,有的也用土坯砌筑.到明代,城墙都用砖砌筑,内部夯土.长城上每隔一段距离筑的方形烽火 台,是古代通讯用的,一旦有外敌来犯,烽火台就一个接一个点起大火,通报边境战事吃紧.

王永宽等,'祖国',中国青年出版社,北京,1983




[Edited at 2008-04-13 12:35]


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chica nueva
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Epic; heritage; 'patria' Apr 13, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
It reminds me of the battle between Aeneus and Turnus in the 'Aeneid', so I call it 'epic'.


Mythologies, epics and sagas are interesting for understanding human minds. Almost each of the folks has its own, but their basis structures are much of the same. That is why the depiction of the battle between 黄帝 and 蚩尤 is in principle similar to that between Aeneus and Turnus: Justification of the victory, the foundation of an empire, etc. No matter how beautifully written, we read in them the same cruelty and savageness of modern wars. It is another way of thinking which led to the foundation of the Commonwealth and the foundation of the European Union. Some folks need more time for such thinking and only when they have to experience the consequences of defeat and victory as the same.
[/quote]

Well, I studied the 'Aeneid', but not the Greek epics, as part of a Biblical and Classical Literature paper. I don't remember a great deal about it.

I remember something about Aeneus and Dido, and crossing the river Styx to Hades, like going to the Yellow Springs, I think.

I don't know. I think it is great literature, and part of the founding culture myth of a civilisation. A touchstone. I believe in 'heritage'.

I studied Latin at school. Our teacher was Latvian. Latin has been preserved in the Catholic Church in Latvia, I believe. I know stories like Romulus and Remus, and Brave Horatio. We did something about Caesar's invasion of Britain, which I have totally forgotten. But I learnt about 'patria'.

'patria' = native land. That's why I translate 祖国 as 'native land'.


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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國難 Apr 15, 2008



http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2005-08/09/content_3328051.htm



[Edited at 2008-04-15 13:07]


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Jason Ma  Identity Verified
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长城长 Apr 15, 2008

蜿蜒数千里,光靠法律进行保护确实难。培养国民的环保和文物保护意识是当务之急。有人去那儿搞活动不一定是坏事,但应该注意保护建筑物和周围的环境。
可能大家听说过有个西方的环保人士,多年来义务保护长城环境。欣喜之余,多少让人感到悲哀。


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


一位叫威廉·林賽的英國人,為了研究和保護長城,留在中國,並在五年前發起了“清潔長城運動”,帶領中外人士一起到長城上撿垃圾,還成立“國際長城之友協會”,六百多人次參加過他舉辦的“長城撿垃圾”行動。他還設立長城環保基地,雇傭山民天天維護長城周邊環境...
http://big5.southcn.com/gate/big5/news.southcn.com/community/shzt/greatwall/advice/200504060562.htm



[Edited at 2008-04-15 13:32]

[Edited at 2008-04-15 13:34]

[Edited at 2008-04-15 13:35]

[Edited at 2008-04-15 13:52]


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Sherwin Zhou  Identity Verified
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关于长城的误读 Apr 16, 2008

1)宇航员在太空并不能用肉眼看到长城,这一点已被我国宇航员证实;
2)长城不能视为中华民族的象征。长城是古迹,更是奇迹,但它绝不应该视为中华民族的象征。长城是抵抗外侮的被动产物,是道防御工事,也是保守的与世隔绝的工程。


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chica nueva
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The Yellow Emperor and the Olympic Games May 15, 2008

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-04/08/content_6600656.htm
Ceremony for Yellow Emperor to bless the Olympics
http://english.gov.cn/2008-04/08/content_939841.htm
Chinese pay tribute to ancestor Yellow Emperor


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chica nueva
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炎黄子孙 Children of the Yellow Emperor May 15, 2008

'中华民族有两个"别称",一是"中华儿女",二是"炎黄子孙"(炎帝与黄帝的子孙,或者只说"黄帝子孙")。这两种称呼有时候可以通用,都是指的中华民族。但是大同之中又有小异,"中华儿女"之称是近代才出现的,其含义偏重于文化(是共同接受中华文化的群体);"炎黄子孙"(或黄帝子孙)之称古已有之,其含义偏重于血缘(有共同的祖先)。'
http://baike.baidu.com/view/17838.htm


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chica nueva
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罗光平先生的长篇小说《东方大帝》 May 16, 2008

‘‘“能够依据不到千字的史实资料,撰写出上百万字的长篇小说,实在太不容易了。” 前天,著名文物专家张文彬在国内首部以轩辕黄帝为题材的小说《东方大帝》首发式上这样说道。’http://news.xinhuanet.com/book/2004-06/07/content_1511765.htm
“历史小说”《东方大帝》引争议

‘传说黄帝炎帝是中华的始祖,关于他们的故事几千年来绵延不绝,然尔迄今为止尚未有一本专门写他们的著作。近日,当代作家罗光平先生创作的一部百万字的大型上古传奇历史小说《东方大帝》由社会科学出版社推出,可谓消弭了这一缺憾。’
http://www.people.com.cn/GB/14738/14761/26030/2549194.html
上古传奇历史小说《东方大帝》横空出世

[Edited at 2008-05-16 09:00]


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chica nueva
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“炎黄后世”与“黄帝子孙” May 16, 2008

lai an wrote:

据史书记载,黄帝是由熊国君少典之子,姓公孙,名轩辕,生于神农之世.当时,神农氏衰老,诸侯互相攻伐,暴虐百姓,而蚩尤最为凶暴,但神农氏不能征伐.于是黄帝率兵和蚩尤战于涿鹿之野,擒杀蚩尤.诸侯就推举黄帝代替神农氏.

至于神话传说中黄帝大战蚩尤的故事,更是神奇.在这些传说中,黄帝和蚩尤都成了半神半人似的人物.当蚩尤和黄帝作战时,蚩尤竟然请来了风伯雨师,自己又作大雾,还役使了许多魔怪参战.而黄帝也请来了神女助战,作指南车对付大雾,又令人吹号角作龙吟,唬走了魔怪,终于战胜了蚩尤.


这些神话传说有荒诞不经的一面,但它们很可能反映了我们先组在氏族社会后期,黄帝族、炎帝族、九黎族三个部落,互相斗争,互相融合,逐步形成中华民族的历史过程。

据认为,黄帝族和炎帝族,最早居住在陕西。黄帝族最后定居在河北涿鹿附近。炎帝族最后到达今山东地区。蚩尤是九黎族的首领。九黎族活动的地区,主要在今山东、河南和安徽一带。相传炎帝族和九黎族为了争夺黄河流域一块肥沃的土地,发生了一次战争。炎帝族被打败了,向黄帝求援。黄、炎两族联合打败了蚩尤。九黎族一部分留在北方,和黄、炎两族合并;另一部分南下荆楚,和三苗族合在一起,这就是后人认为蚩尤是苗族祖先的来源。

根据以上的历史记载和神话传说,可以看到黄帝族、炎帝族和九黎族三个部落,逐步以黄帝族为主,相互融合,黄帝就成了我国多民族国家的共同祖先。后来,各族都自认为是黄帝的后代,称为“炎黄后世”或“黄帝子孙”

王永宽等,'祖国',中国青年出版社,北京,1983


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chica nueva
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'The Great Wall'; Thank you everybody! May 19, 2008

谢谢各位Wenjer,PK,Jason,Sherwin 的热情回应。你们可能注意到了,我对八十年代的教材感兴趣,想了解现代人对其的反应、评价。如果感兴趣的话,欢迎大家提出自己的看法。
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