The correct usage of two DEs

On 2003-04-23 19:37, yao wrote:

Hi,



Recently, I got into a discussion with a client about the correct usage of 的and 得. It turned out that we had different opinions. In fact, these two words don\'t usually affect the outcome of the translation, however, it\'s just like gravel in the shoes that feels irritated when you are told to correct DEs.

So here is an example

我說DE或許你並不同意

Which DE is correct?

Any input will be helpful. Thanks in advance.



yao





In this case, I would prefer to use “的“。 ▲ Collapse

On 2003-04-26 19:45, kin wrote:

Hi,



I find this topic very interesting. I am a Cantonese speaker. To me, both  and 眔 are ok. 眔 can also mean \"alright\" from my linguistic feeling. I also checked this in Xiandai Hanyu Cidian.



My rough interpretation of the two senses:



и弧┪砛\ぃ種

You may not agree with what I said.



и弧眔┪砛\ぃ種

I said it\'s alright; you may not agree though.



I think dialectal use of words is involved in this case. What do others think?



Kin







Hello, Kin



Thank you for your participation in the discussion. You gave an interesting input. I cannot speak Cantonese, so I do not find myself in a position to make any comment to your explanation.



Kevin

[ This Message was edited by: TongliUSA on 2003-04-29 15:54] ▲ Collapse

On 2003-04-26 19:45, kin wrote:

Hi,



I find this topic very interesting. I am a Cantonese speaker. To me, both  and 眔 are ok. 眔 can also mean \"alright\" from my linguistic feeling. I also checked this in Xiandai Hanyu Cidian.



My rough interpretation of the two senses:



и弧┪砛\ぃ種

You may not agree with what I said.



и弧眔┪砛\ぃ種

I said it\'s alright; you may not agree though.



I think dialectal use of words is involved in this case. What do others think?



Kin







yep definitely make a difference in cantonese whether which DE was used. But obviously the two sentences would sound different in cantonese, not even \"de\" will be used:



и弧┪砛\ぃ種(mandarin)

и量o琂,┪砛\種(cantonese)



и弧眔┪砛\ぃ種(mandarin)

и杠o━,┪砛\種(cantonese)



Indeed the distinction is made in cantonese. Possessive DE are always replaced by the cantonese o琂. \"┪砛\\" is rather rare in cantonese anyway,  is more colloquial.



whereas 眔 is used differently:

弧и弧眔癸ぃ癸? (man.)

杠и量眔o━o━? (can.)

(Tell me whether what I said was right or not.)



note the usage of 眔 is the same in both dialects, but note the difference in the three usages of \"say\" here. That\'s another topic altogether...



but if 眔 was replaced by  here it will produced an entire different sense for this example:



弧и弧,癸ぃ癸? (man.)

杠и量o琂,玒玒? (can.)

(You say I said it, don\'t you?)



note the switching to  requires the use of a comma. Also the o琂 (ge2) in this case would have a different tone than the possessive o琂 (ge3).



-kvasir

[ This Message was edited by: Kvasir on 2003-05-01 19:37] ▲ Collapse