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中文论坛，正本清源？ Thread poster: Y_Bill
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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我相信语言平等主义，中文似乎应该与英文同等文明。
我英文理解能力有限，请高手翻译这些文字：
Chinese
Post any topic in Chinese
我疑惑的原因是该论坛中的中文好像凤毛麟角，英文占了至少90%空间。我们是否应该提议将论坛的题目改成：
English (or Chinese if you personally insist)
Post any topic preferably in English... See more 我相信语言平等主义，中文似乎应该与英文同等文明。
我英文理解能力有限，请高手翻译这些文字：
Chinese
Post any topic in Chinese
我疑惑的原因是该论坛中的中文好像凤毛麟角，英文占了至少90%空间。我们是否应该提议将论坛的题目改成：
English (or Chinese if you personally insist)
Post any topic preferably in English though it is generally called Chinese Forum.
不过这也太费劲了。按中国人说法名副其实才好，西方人相信也心同此理。所以，我斗胆建议：从今而后我们共同努力还中文论坛以本来面目。
您说呢？
（本贴文字编码为：GB code.)
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Kvasir
Canada
Local time: 17:54
English to Chinese
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| yes, pardon my english | May 13, 2003 |
Yes i was meaning to post something on this topic for awhile, confessing my limited Chinese writing skills.
This topic has been mentioned quite a few times and only was it recently that i\'ve started thinking about giving my 2 cents. But only when i thought i had something to write about, i couldn\'t even find the original folder this topic was originally mentioned!
So yes, i\'m glad this topic is officially on its own.
Anyhow, as i... See more Yes i was meaning to post something on this topic for awhile, confessing my limited Chinese writing skills.
This topic has been mentioned quite a few times and only was it recently that i\'ve started thinking about giving my 2 cents. But only when i thought i had something to write about, i couldn\'t even find the original folder this topic was originally mentioned!
So yes, i\'m glad this topic is officially on its own.
Anyhow, as i said, pardon my English. But those of us who have limited Chinese composition skills will probably find typing a message of this length quite challenging. With the years i\'ve been living in Canada, my English proficiencies have clearly surpassed my Chinese or even Cantonese. Afterall I only have the formal Chinese literary education level equivalent to an eleven year old. No need to further embarass myself there!
English had clearly become my first language of communication for quite awhile even though it isn\'t my native langauge. Many now take me as a native english speaker, of course making the same kind of typo and mistakes any NS would make.
Proficiency issue aside, there is also a technology barrier. For amateur linguists like me, without any common and direct input software, typing Chinese can be quite a chore.
The program i have now requires input in pinyin, changjie, or zhuyin. As an amateur linguist, I really couldn\'t bother, or have time to learn changjie. But as many of you have learnt by now that as a cantonese speaker, the difficulty I may face to input characters in mandarin. Since the pinyin may not be obvious everytime, it may take me 3 minutes to look up the dictionary to find the pinyin, so that i can even enter it. It doesn\'t end there, there\'s another list of homonyms (much more of them than in Cantonese) to sort through before that one single character can finally show up on the screen. If I were to type this post in Chinese, I\'d probably still be around paragraph one. By then i\'ve probably lost interest in posting anything, and probably making even less sense than i would\'ve been otherwise.
And then there\'s the eternal question of coding confusion that have often plagued many of us. One slip and your well-worked code will turn out as garbage.
So yes as Bill put it perfectly, only when it\'s necessary do I type Chinese characters, just so i can get my point across. I think by now many of you have noticed that all my Kudos explanation were done in English, with only the essential characters mixed in. Now you know why.
There is absolutely nothing about me that is against chinese usage. Why else would I be in this forum were I not interested in the discussions and often heated topics here? I doubt very much the same topics will generate much response were it placed in a non-language-specific forum.
So next time you see me babbling English, 叫ǎ教.
-Kvasir ▲ Collapse
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Kvasir老弟此贴的心态值得理解和鼓励。所谓“正本清源”还有一个意思：在本坛出没的诸位“大侠”谁不是受“中文”之惠多多？英汉翻译，天下一大财源滚滚之产业，而许多吃中文饭的人对中文
的态度却总是透着点暧昧，透着点莫名其妙岂有此理的感觉：在国人面前觉得自己英文好，你英文不如我你中文也靠边站；在“西人”面前欺负他们害怕方块字给自己的洋文壮... See more Kvasir老弟此贴的心态值得理解和鼓励。所谓“正本清源”还有一个意思：在本坛出没的诸位“大侠”谁不是受“中文”之惠多多？英汉翻译，天下一大财源滚滚之产业，而许多吃中文饭的人对中文
的态度却总是透着点暧昧，透着点莫名其妙岂有此理的感觉：在国人面前觉得自己英文好，你英文不如我你中文也靠边站；在“西人”面前欺负他们害怕方块字给自己的洋文壮胆，结果中文英文都成
了夹生饭，自己也弄得里外不像人，又何必？
吃中文饭者要想心态正常，就要树立中国文化的观念，稍微破除一点对中文的势利之心：意识到对中国文化的学习理解和掌握是攸关自己切身利益的大事。要学习中国文化，就要了解一点中国的历史，了解一点中国的经典，了解一点中国的文化英雄（孔孟老庄孔明惠能玄奘等等）。还要意识到中国文化与西方文化是鼎足而立的关系，不是此起彼伏的关系。
翻译水平的提高归根结底取决于自己品味的提高，而懂中文者提高品味拥有资源之丰富恐怕无与伦比：诸子百家，六朝骈文，唐诗宋词，佛藏典籍，那一条不是西方人需要半辈子到一辈子才能窥其门
径的学问？我当然明白西方人文资源也同样丰富，问题是以中文为工作语言的人们身在宝山而不知珍重，岂不可惜？
西人说：A little learning is a dangerous thing,我们作翻译的身在中西文化之间，最需要有平等心与大气魄：平等心是说中西文化都是我的老师，不可有厚此薄彼之心；大气魄是说有学贯中
西的志向，而不是委琐奔忙于中西阵营之间，茫然流落于不伦不类之地。
学中文要树立以普通话（或国语）为标准的观念，这并非盲目树立正统，如此是现实、实用且顺理成章的事，尤其在中文输入时，若非专业打字，懂普通话而以拼音输入很方便。
Kvasir老弟，希望你多学点中文，中文学好了，英文也会相应更进一步。本来嘛，游戏双语（或多语）世界，不亦happy乎？
[ This Message was edited by: Y_Bill on 2003-05-14 05:00] ▲ Collapse
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Kvasir
Canada
Local time: 17:54
English to Chinese
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Interesting key term indeed, I think that explains our differences in opinions, most of the time.
No doubt, most users on this site are language professionals who can readily quote literary classics. Of course this is a must for someone who makes a living off his/her language proficiency and additional cultural insights. Afterall, it is all about making a living.
For someone like me who only frequents this site solely for its linguistic benefits and per... See more Interesting key term indeed, I think that explains our differences in opinions, most of the time.
No doubt, most users on this site are language professionals who can readily quote literary classics. Of course this is a must for someone who makes a living off his/her language proficiency and additional cultural insights. Afterall, it is all about making a living.
For someone like me who only frequents this site solely for its linguistic benefits and personal interests, whether i present myself as fluent in any language is irrelevant. As far as online forums are concerned (such as this one), if my opinions get across, that\'s all I care. There are other venues for me to use grammar perfect, spell-checked, and sophisticated language.
So call me a corruption of language of the web.
Furthermore, I\'m not here to establish some kind or a credibility (i believe that\'s what kudos are for, right?), I\'m only here to learn and help others to learn. 助人為快樂之本 , no? (btw i\'ve just timed it, that little idiom alone took me precisely 4 minutes to put together.)
And yes, this also explains our difference in writing style. My language level can no where compared with those here, be it in English or Chinese. Afterall, I\'m relying only on technical and scientific skills to make a living. As long as my objective and technical, engineering reports are free of typos and errors, and up to our clients\' expectations, they are already sufficient, no quoting of classics or literary works necessary. Afterall, scientific and technical language strives for clearness, concisenss, and precision. why beat around the bush when one word would make the point? KISS principle definitely applies here. Keep it simple stupid.
That is what i\'m trained for, that is what i\'m used to, and that is what i\'ll live by.
Shifting gear...
While I disagree one MUST use Mandarin as the standard when learning Chinese, I do think that it is necessary to study Mandarin in order to improve one\'s Chinese writing style. Even though certain government made one dialect the official speech of a country doesn\'t necessary mean that other dialects are sub-standard. Afterall, we have seen extinctions of many dialects and languages under such drastic and sometimes forced reforms, in the process we have also lost part of our heritage. For example, look at Manchu. Many i\'ve talked to don\'t even aware of the existence of the language, let alone knowing what it looks like. But i digress...
Quote:
On 2003-05-13 22:11, Y_Bill wrote:
Kvasir老弟，希望你多学点中文，中文学好了，英文也会相应更进一步。
err thankx for the advice, but. Chinese is no longer my language of choice in daily communication. Its status, has in fact, shifted sometime ago to somewhere close to being my second language. So i doubt my english will improve any way by catching up on my chinese. My thoughts are already in English, and my life and the career i have planned for myself demands it that way.
One former teacher of mine put it nicely: if you want to find out in what language your thoughts are, just take a nap and have a dream.
speaking of dream i\'m dead tired, better pause here for now.
-Kvasir
[ This Message was edited by: Kvasir on 2003-05-15 14:52] ▲ Collapse
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
果然很佩服kvasir叽里呱啦流利之极地说一大篇观点似有似无之英文的本事，不禁有“对鸡弹琴”之叹，尽管你绝不可以说“鸡”不懂音乐，会有动物保护主义者说你歧视动物：因此，干脆说牛也能弹琴算了。
既然能看懂本文的第一段，就不妨花点时间补习一下中文，一则学有所用，二则可对“种族平等”之理想有更多体会。其实平等的实现在于人的内心，不在�... See more 果然很佩服kvasir叽里呱啦流利之极地说一大篇观点似有似无之英文的本事，不禁有“对鸡弹琴”之叹，尽管你绝不可以说“鸡”不懂音乐，会有动物保护主义者说你歧视动物：因此，干脆说牛也能弹琴算了。
既然能看懂本文的第一段，就不妨花点时间补习一下中文，一则学有所用，二则可对“种族平等”之理想有更多体会。其实平等的实现在于人的内心，不在于规定哪些敏感的“话语”不能说。就像有些人满脸不屑的神情还会说出让你觉得礼貌至极的话：貌似恭敬，心如蛇蝎。
所以言外之意与言内之意是我们很难避免的东西，不论是你的专业是什么，否则我们在这儿或长篇大论或尖酸刻薄的都是在玩什么游戏呢？
对语言的感受力不因语言种类不同而不同，学中文能提高对语言的感受力是毫无疑义的，对语言感受力的提高自然对英文水平的提高有帮助，这应该不是什么十分难懂的道理。
西哲说：一个人的世界之边界就是他语言的边界。老子说：道可道，非常道。可见宇宙之大往往超越人类语言的范畴。以英文做梦与以中文做梦都是一回事，难道你用英文做梦就是天堂？没有求觉悟之心也只能在自己的小罐罐里打转转，即使这罐罐是coca cola的又有什么用？
有些话听着刺耳，扰乱了某些人耳根清静，即使我“振聋发聩”之心大大善良，也还是愿意表示歉意。言者有心，听者无意未免凄凉；言者无心，听者有意也是无奈的事。
还是想再次说句简单实在的话：希望中文论坛名副其实，成为热爱、喜欢或不反感中文之人士的家园。
暂且到此为止。祝诸位万事顺意！
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: Y_Bill on 2003-05-14 21:25] ▲ Collapse
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Kvasir
Canada
Local time: 17:54
English to Chinese
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Quote:
On 2003-05-14 17:25, Y_Bill wrote:
果然很佩服 kvasir 里呱啦流利之极地说一大篇观点似有似无之英文的本事，不禁有“对鸡弹琴”之叹，尽管你绝不可以说“鸡”不懂音乐，会有动物保护主义者说你歧视动物：因此，干脆说牛也能弹琴算了。
On so many levels your sarcasm is reaching a dangerously offensive stage.
... See more Quote:
On 2003-05-14 17:25, Y_Bill wrote:
果然很佩服 kvasir 里呱啦流利之极地说一大篇观点似有似无之英文的本事，不禁有“对鸡弹琴”之叹，尽管你绝不可以说“鸡”不懂音乐，会有动物保护主义者说你歧视动物：因此，干脆说牛也能弹琴算了。
On so many levels your sarcasm is reaching a dangerously offensive stage.
I admit that i use informal, colloquial level of langauage online, but obviously that isn\'t good enough for this forum.
Seems like 轉牛角尖 and 無中生有 is how views get across these days.
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其实平等的实现在于人的内心，不在于规定哪些敏感的“话语”不能说。就像有些人满脸不屑的神情还会说出让你觉得礼貌至极的话：貌似恭敬，心如蛇蝎。
所以言外之意与言内之意是我们很难避免的东西，不论是你的专业是什么，...
I assume this is referring to the few real-life examples i mention on the other thread. Indeed, i agree that no one can dictate how you make judgements on other people\'s words. As long as you put yourself out there making statements, you must be prepared being scrutinised somewhere down the line, be it for the choice of words, or for the facts you present.
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... 否则我们在这儿或长篇大论或尖酸刻薄的都是在玩什么游戏呢？
I don\'t know what games you are playing but i don\'t think i was in any way being 尖酸刻薄 or personal.
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对语言的感受力不因语言种类不同而不同，学中文能提高对语言的感受力是毫无疑义的，对语言感受力的提高自然对英文水平的提高有帮助，这应该不是什么十分难懂的道理。
Interesting viewpoint now that you\'ve clarified it abit. I can\'t draw the same conclusion from my personal experience, however, or perhaps i don\'t completely understanding the term 语言感受力 here. Please define or provide an english equivalent terminology.
But if we were to reverse your argument, wouldn\'t the 语言感受力 of my English help me to improve my Chinese? Or is Chinese the only language that can raise one\'s 语言感受力 ? I hope you see what i\'m getting at.
No doubt the learning of a new language will help one\'s linguistic understanding when you look at a language as an outsider. For example, i wouldn\'t have grasped the concept of the Gaelic vocative case were it not that i can relate to the very common practice that is already done in cantonese (not sure if it\'s common in mandarin). But on the contrary, not many cantonese will be able to tell you what a vocative case is unless they have had linguistic exposure. Probably even more alineanating would this term be to an English speaker, say.
However, linguistic understanding has nothing to do with proficiency. A native speaker may or may not understand the inner workings of his native language, but he will make mistakes on grammar or usage, it\'s only a matter of how conspicuous and how often.
Quote:
以英文做梦与以中文做梦都是一回事，难道你用英文做梦就是天堂？
Again, I can\'t continue with an intelligent dialogue when I keep on seeing my words being deconstructively twisted around and manipulated. I\'ve never said nor implied what YOU quoted, but if that\'s how you see it there\'s nothing i can do. Afterall, we\'re going back to the same point that we both agree on: you see what you want to see; you hear what you want to hear.
About the dreaming analogy, I was only saying it was an indication on the language a person is most comfortable in using, period.
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没有求觉悟之心也只能在自己的小罐罐里打转转，即使这罐罐是coca cola的又有什么用？
Please refer to my first comment.
-kvasir
[ This Message was edited by: Kvasir on 2003-05-15 15:04] ▲ Collapse
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Kevin Yang 
Local time: 16:54
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
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| Both Chinese and English are welcome here. NO exclusion! | May 15, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-05-13 16:43, Y_Bill wrote:
我相信语言平等主义，中文似乎应该与英文同等文明。
我英文理解能力有限，请高手翻译这些文字：
Chinese
Post any topic in Chinese
我疑惑的原因是该论坛中的中文好像凤毛麟角，英文占了至少90%空间。我们是否应该提议将论坛的题目改成：
... See more Quote:
On 2003-05-13 16:43, Y_Bill wrote:
我相信语言平等主义，中文似乎应该与英文同等文明。
我英文理解能力有限，请高手翻译这些文字：
Chinese
Post any topic in Chinese
我疑惑的原因是该论坛中的中文好像凤毛麟角，英文占了至少90%空间。我们是否应该提议将论坛的题目改成：
English (or Chinese if you personally insist)
Post any topic preferably in English though it is generally called Chinese Forum.
不过这也太费劲了。按中国人说法名副其实才好，西方人相信也心同此理。所以，我斗胆建议：从今而后我们共同努力还中文论坛以本来面目。
您说呢？
Y_Bill,
The Chinese Forum was established by ProZ.com in responding to my email, in which I made a suggestion about the necessity to set up a Chinese Forum where the translators could discuss the matters related to the Chinese translation. What we have now is exactly as it was from the very beginning. I do not see the free choice of language here is an issue. It looks fabulous from where I sit. I wonder why it bothers you.
1. I truly believe that the Chinese Forum should embrace everyone who is interested in Chinese language and cultures. It is absolutely NOT acceptable to turn it into a private club only for the people who can read and/or write Chinese characters. In North America, I know many people here who are very interested in learning about Chinese language and culture, but they cannot read or write Chinese characters well. Among them, there are Chinese descendants, people of other races as well as the people with certain percentage of the Chinese blood. I know this is also a reality in other parts of the world. We should welcome all of them, but not exclude any of them by making such radical reform as you suggested. If you can look at it with an international perspective, it might start to make sense to you.
2. Both Chinese and English are welcome here. There is NO need to dictate people here in terms of what language should be used in Chinese Forum. You should let people enjoy the freedom in choosing the language for their communication as long as they think they can use the selected language to communicate efficiently with one another or get their point crossed effectively when discussing the matters related to Chinese language and/or cultures. I think it is perfectly OK to post messages in either Chinese or English. You can even respond a message posted in Chinese with a message in English, or vise versa. The goal here is to choose the most effective language you think you can communicate well with your readers. As for the “90%” messages you estimated in the Chinese Forum are written in English, I am not sure how accurate that is, but you are certainly one of the contributors. If you believe in what you suggested, perhaps you should start to use Chinese more often to post your messages.
3. It is not necessary to elevate the choice of working language in Chinese Forum to the level of “语言平等主义”(language equalism) and “与英文同等文明”(has the equal civilization as English)。 Speaking about myself, I use English more often because I serve as a moderator here and I want every single visitor as well as ProZ.com staff to understand what I wrote. I have nothing to hide when I debate or discuss in the Chinese Forum, so English is the perfect choice for me. I use Chinese often when I discuss actual translation in KudoZ services. Another thing is that I can type English much faster and never have coding issues, exactly like Kvasir honestly said in his message posted above, so there is nothing to be cynical about.
We all should read more books and learn more about the Chinese language and cultures. I am learning everyday. The purpose of doing so is to make ourselves to be better human beings with broad minds and profound knowledge. Let’s guide our energy more toward helping others with their translations, making self improvement as well as making more friends.
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Kvasir:
尖酸刻薄当然说的是我本人，你是属于长篇大论的那位。所以不必过于敏感，我没看出牛比鸡高明到哪去，尽管鸡有禽流感，牛还有疯牛病呢。
所以语言才有风格之分，像种族平等，风格也平等。你可以清晰流利，我可以老辣刻薄，但这与说话者是否以善意出发没有必然的联系：可以有礼貌的痛斥，也可以有刻薄的亲善。
�... See more Kvasir:
尖酸刻薄当然说的是我本人，你是属于长篇大论的那位。所以不必过于敏感，我没看出牛比鸡高明到哪去，尽管鸡有禽流感，牛还有疯牛病呢。
所以语言才有风格之分，像种族平等，风格也平等。你可以清晰流利，我可以老辣刻薄，但这与说话者是否以善意出发没有必然的联系：可以有礼貌的痛斥，也可以有刻薄的亲善。
英文水平高，当然学起汉语来就容易的多，反之亦然。比如，linguistic understanding 翻译“语言的感受力”就很好。
版主Kevin说的合情合理，本人没有反对意见；不过到中文论坛的人应该大多对中文感兴趣，哪怕是培养一下对中文的阅读能力也不妨提倡多用中文讨论，而在中文理解上出现问题时可以用英文加以解释，岂非两全其美？
Bill
现把附在“和为贵”论题一贴中的附加部分也一并贴在此处：
Kvasir:
As I said in my post in Chinese, forgive me where I was annoying and seemingly exaggerating, especially when you would like to cry out that you are not Chinese. And if you are not Chinese, I advise you not to feel personally attacked.
Believe me, I believe in racial and cultural equality, which is exactly why nobody should be ashamed of or overly sensitive about his or her racial or cultural origin. I was futilely trying to conjure up a little sense of responsibility for knowing where one is from, though which is legally and liberally free to be left to the personal world of individuality.
Etiquette is for people without manners, fashion without taste. So maybe, just maybe, the now prevalent social code of racial and cultural equality in \"North America\" is just for those who are in fact less equal than others. Sometimes the \"rules\" of equality may even serve to create a false image of social reality in the minds of the virtually less significant.
Of course I would never go to the extremes of opposing the social \"code\" of equality. But I certainly wish those who feel protected by the rules of equality would find the excellence and confidence as well in their own cultural heritage.
Don\'t want to be a shrink, which some time ago has almost become a synonym for a psycho. Did I just insult the shrinks? Or the psychos?
Ok, luckily the sun shines upon all humanity, maybe we can forget the controversy of concepts and say: don\'t block the sunshine!
All the best
Bill
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Yubing YANG (X)
English to Chinese
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“兼听则明，旁听则暗”
两位谈到中文论坛交流媒介。前阶段我在法语论坛上发贴，最后有人提出，法语论坛必须用法语交流，好在有开明人士已经给我的问题作出回答。但是接下来就是叽里咕噜的一大堆法语。
我的看法如果是交流的需要英语可以在我们中文论坛上使用，但是第一交流语言最好是中文。这样也符合论坛的特色。
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3Sigma
Local time: 07:54
German to English
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我发觉在中文论坛上，被人“误会”的频率相当高。我是这里的新成员，或许有点不懂规矩，如有冒犯之处，绝非本意，敬请各路“英雄”（或“英雌”〕高抬贵手，恕小弟直言。
我常被人叫作“半唐番”，因为虽是华侨，受的是西方教育，所以中文只是马马虎虎。我是个“半途出家”的汉英翻译员，靠的是自己在法律，会计及金融业里浑了多年的专门知识。�... See more 我发觉在中文论坛上，被人“误会”的频率相当高。我是这里的新成员，或许有点不懂规矩，如有冒犯之处，绝非本意，敬请各路“英雄”（或“英雌”〕高抬贵手，恕小弟直言。
我常被人叫作“半唐番”，因为虽是华侨，受的是西方教育，所以中文只是马马虎虎。我是个“半途出家”的汉英翻译员，靠的是自己在法律，会计及金融业里浑了多年的专门知识。但论语言的造诣，比起本公司(3Sigma)或此网页内的能人就逊色多了。
我曾对“半唐番”这个称呼感到羞耻和遗憾，也有被中国人歧视的感觉。不记得是某年某月的某一天，在图书馆里拿起一本武侠小说，从此激发了我对中文的热衷。金庸就变成了我的偶像。
时隔多年，我对“半唐番”这个称呼再也不以为然。反而觉得非常恰当。一个受西方教育的华侨，想的写的做的都是西方的语言，文化和价值观，不是“半唐番”是什么？
看了Kvasir仁兄的告白，鼻子有点酸溜溜的。或许“外人”是很难理解国外华侨的辛酸苦辣。对科技一窍不通的我来说，当初从痛下苦功以提高中文水平，到克服中文软件与英文微软不协调的科技难题，真费了九牛二虎之力才有今天微不足道的成绩。
所以像Kvasir仁兄的同道中人，我们应该加以鼓励，而不是排斥或批评。中文与英文都一样受的欢迎。
话又说回来，其实我举手赞成（脚也举起来了〕Bill仁兄的提议。以中文为主的汉英翻译网站也实在是太少了。我们应该在不排斥任何人的同时提倡中文。
语言与文化本来就是不可分割的同一体系。对中文或中国文化有兴趣的同道中人来说，多读多写中文未必不是好事。将心比心，在英德网站里，我也乐意接受以德文为主的论坛。但每人应有选择语言的自主权，且不受排斥。
因此，我希望在此的语言高手能多多提倡中文，让我们的中文水平更上一层楼。
半唐番
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
唐兄高见，小弟十分佩服。此地我才是“番人”。仁兄中文有金庸打底，怪不得如此了得。
其实我一直企图说明的是学中文的人有一点中华文化意识对中文水平乃至英文水平的提高大有好处，因为中华文化的高处与西方文化相通而互补。如此而已。
小弟何人，绝不敢排斥任何语言，比如有人在这里用爱尔兰语发言，我们只需请求有人帮忙将其翻... See more 唐兄高见，小弟十分佩服。此地我才是“番人”。仁兄中文有金庸打底，怪不得如此了得。
其实我一直企图说明的是学中文的人有一点中华文化意识对中文水平乃至英文水平的提高大有好处，因为中华文化的高处与西方文化相通而互补。如此而已。
小弟何人，绝不敢排斥任何语言，比如有人在这里用爱尔兰语发言，我们只需请求有人帮忙将其翻译成中文或英文就好了。话也说回来，中文论坛以中文为主要讨论语言也应该是题中之意。
版主Kevin的不排斥（no exclusion)原则当然是最佳原则，我们也不妨利用这一原则，在中文论坛推动以中文讨论的风气。
斗胆向版主提议：可否在“不排斥”原则的基础上，不定期地举办“中文讨论月”或“中文讨论周”？此类活动可以在中华节日期间举办，比如中秋节，端午节，春节等等。还可以请热心网友推荐中文的传统经典文章以及当代优美散文等等，提高全球各地网友学习中文的兴趣，因而也同时促进我们中文论坛的繁荣。
谢谢。
[ This Message was edited by: Y_Bill on 2003-05-17 13:40] ▲ Collapse
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Kvasir
Canada
Local time: 17:54
English to Chinese
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| Thanks for all the constructive comments! | May 17, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-05-16 01:22, Yubing wrote:
~{G0=W6NNRTZ7(SoB[L3IO7\"Ly#,Wn:sSPHKLa3v#,7(SoB[L31XPkSC7(So=;Aw#,:CTZSP?*CwHKJ?RQ>-8xNR5DNJLbWw3v;X4p!#5+JG=SOB@4>MJG_4@o9>``5DR;4s6Q7(So!#~}
~{NR5D?47(Hg9{JG=;Aw5DPhR*S\"So?IRTTZNRCGVPNDB[L3IOJ9SC#,5+JG5ZR;=;AwSoQTWn:CJGVPND!#UbQyR27{:OB[L35DLXI+!#~}
Absolutely! I personally have posted in danish and swedish forums, at first i felt relunc... See more Quote:
On 2003-05-16 01:22, Yubing wrote:
~{G0=W6NNRTZ7(SoB[L3IO7\"Ly#,Wn:sSPHKLa3v#,7(SoB[L31XPkSC7(So=;Aw#,:CTZSP?*CwHKJ?RQ>-8xNR5DNJLbWw3v;X4p!#5+JG=SOB@4>MJG_4@o9>``5DR;4s6Q7(So!#~}
~{NR5D?47(Hg9{JG=;Aw5DPhR*S\"So?IRTTZNRCGVPNDB[L3IOJ9SC#,5+JG5ZR;=;AwSoQTWn:CJGVPND!#UbQyR27{:OB[L35DLXI+!#~}
Absolutely! I personally have posted in danish and swedish forums, at first i felt relunctant to post things there thinking i might draw criticism about my use of english. But only after i thought it over, thinking: \"how can anyone be critical about someone who is trying to learn, or being interested in their language?\", was I able to give myself a go-ahead.
Quote:
On 2003-05-17 06:02, 3Sigma wrote:
~{R;8vJ\\Nw7==LS}5D;*GH#,Ok5DP45DWv5D6
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Quote:
On 2003-05-16 01:22, Yubing wrote:
“兼听则明，旁听则暗”
两位谈到中文论坛交流媒介。前阶段我在法语论坛上发贴，最后有人提出，法语论坛必须用法语交流，好在有开明人士已经给我的问题作出回答。但是接下来就是叽里咕噜的一大堆法语。
我的看法如果是交流的需要英语可以在我们中文论坛上使用，但是第一交流语言最好是中文。这样也符合论坛的特色。
第一交流语言的确应该是中文，同时不排斥（no exclusion)任何一种语言。鼓励全球各地学习中文的人士在本论坛以中文发贴。
谢谢。
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3Sigma
Local time: 07:54
German to English
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| 促进语言，文化和价值观的交流 | May 17, 2003 |
Bill兄的提议非常好。我们不定时地提出不同的课题来讨论，无需一定要凑上中华节日。以特别节日作借口固然好，如有好的课题，又何需一定要等待节日的来临？
在分析不同的课题时，我们也可以从中国人，海外华侨，及西方人的角度来探讨不同的课题。如此，我们在促进语言交流的同时，也能研究不同的文化和价值观。
您说好不？
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Y_Bill
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | 好好好！不是小好，是大大的好！ | May 17, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-05-17 15:35, 3Sigma wrote:
Bill兄的提议非常好。我们不定时地提出不同的课题来讨论，无需一定要凑上中华节日。以特别节日作借口固然好，如有好的课题，又何需一定要等待节日的来临？
在分析不同的课题时，我们也可以从中国人，海外华侨，及西方人的角度来探讨不同的课题。如此，我们在促进语言交�
... See more Quote:
On 2003-05-17 15:35, 3Sigma wrote:
Bill兄的提议非常好。我们不定时地提出不同的课题来讨论，无需一定要凑上中华节日。以特别节日作借口固然好，如有好的课题，又何需一定要等待节日的来临？
在分析不同的课题时，我们也可以从中国人，海外华侨，及西方人的角度来探讨不同的课题。如此，我们在促进语言交流的同时，也能研究不同的文化和价值观。
您说好不？
这就是我一直企图宣扬的问题。学者的知性就是体现在他能够超越表面的语言、文化与价值观而毫无挂碍地进行人与人之间的交流，孔子之“有朋自远方来不亦乐乎？”正是此等境界，至于佛陀之“众生平等”，基督之“爱你的邻人”都是一个意思。有了这个基础，再来讨论语言、文化及价值观，当然愈觉得大千世界之多彩多姿，一切不同与差异都是趣味，而不是阻隔人与人之间关系的障碍。
人生有境界，而此境界可以不同语言描述之；故此取法乎超越语言之上的境界而谈翻译，翻译技艺不提高是不可能的。
唐兄（暂且如此称呼，请指正）这篇文字背后之心意温和公允持中，小弟十分敬慕。
请诸位多多建言，繁荣中文论坛。
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: Y_Bill on 2003-05-17 17:47] ▲ Collapse
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