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一个英国人的汉译英试译(以此接得某大项目)
Thread poster: Alan Wang

Alan Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 18:11
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Mar 8, 2009

最近完成一个潜在客户的测试,反馈回来的结果是“看了不行,删了”。并说他们接受了一个英国人的测试稿,最后把这个项目给他了。

好在对方把英国人的试译发表了,下面就是。内容也不多,大家可以抽空评论一下。后面也将把我的试译文贴出。大家也一样评论。因为Proz上的翻译高手多,这会有点意义。讨论一下汉译英到底难在哪里。客户想要什么样的译文,如何做才能做到客户满意等等。

1250型混捏成套设备用于碳素产品的混捏工序。此工序主要由配料工步、混捏工步、热糊料出料工步、热糊料冷却工步、冷糊料出料工步等五个工步组成。 The kneading equipment set ‘Model 1250’ is used for the process of kneading carbon products. This process consists of five main stages: batch feeding, kneading, discharging of hot paste, cooling of hot paste, and discharging of cold paste.

在开始的配料工序阶段,采用失重称量法把需要称重且符合工艺要求的粉料和沥青,按照要求的配比比例加入到混捏机的混捏腔内。 During the initial batch feeding stage, making use of the loss-of-weight method, powders and asphalt that need weighing and comply with the process requirements are placed into the kneading cavity of the kneading device according to the required mixture proportions.

完成粉料加料后,预混物料、混捏物料。预混、混捏的工艺要求温度180-250℃。混捏机的混捏腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度180-280℃的循环使用的热导热油,加热混捏糊料。 After all of the powders have been added, the materials are premixed and kneaded. The required temperature during the premixing and kneading stage is between 180 and 250℃. The kneading cavity of the kneading device has a double-layer structure. This layered structure creates a jacket between which circulates a heat-conducting oil, at a temperature of 180-280℃, heating the kneading paste within.

物料混捏合格,达到工艺要求后,把混捏好的热糊料放置到冷却机的冷却腔内冷却。冷却机的冷却腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度35-40℃的循环使用的冷导热油,热糊料在此冷却。待糊料冷却到70℃后,将冷糊料放置到ACM的进料料斗。 After kneading of the materials has been completed to the standards of the process requirements, the hot kneaded paste is then transferred into the cooling cavity of the cooling device for refrigeration. The cooling cavity of the cooling device has a double-layer structure. This layered structure creates a jacket between which circulates a heat-conducting oil, at a temperature of 35-40℃, cooling the hot paste within. After it has been cooled to 70℃, the cold paste is transferred into the feeding hopper of the ACM.


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nigerose  Identity Verified
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讨论一下 Mar 8, 2009

对以下两段内容讨论一下。


混捏机的混捏腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度180-280℃的循环使用的热导热油,加热混捏糊料。
The kneading cavity of the kneading device has a double-layer structure. This layered structure creates a jacket between which circulates a heat-conducting oil, at a temperature of 180-280℃, heating the kneading paste within.

讨论: “This layered structure creates a jacket”可能有误,但不知道具体结构如何,也不能确定。估计
夹套可能不是由双层结构产生(created)的,而是夹套相对于双层结构即混捏腔而言是被金属隔开的另一腔,其中通导热油。
即使是“This layered structure creates a jacket”,后面的“between which”也应该是“in which”才对。


物料混捏合格,达到工艺要求后,把混捏好的热糊料放置到冷却机的冷却腔内冷却。冷却机的冷却腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内 通温度35-40℃的循环使用的冷导热油,热糊料在此冷却。待糊料冷却到70℃后,将冷糊料放置到ACM的进料料斗。 Afte r kneading of the materials has been completed to the standards of the process requirements, the hot kneaded paste is then transferred into the cooling cavity of the cooling device for refrigeration. The cooling cavity of the cooling device has a double-layer structure. This layered structure creates a jacket between which circulates a heat-conducting oil, at a temperature of 35-40℃, cooling the hot paste within. After it has been cooled to 70℃, the cold paste is transferred into the feeding hopper of the ACM.


讨论: This layered structure creates a jacket 问题同上。
refrigernation和cold用词不当,“冷却到70℃后”就不能说refrigernation和cold,应分别改为cooling,cooled。

其实,译文可以把一些句子合并,写成复杂的句子,符合科技英语的文体。


再讨论:即使是“This layered structure creates a jacket”,后面的“between which”也应该是“in which”才对。
google约有 41 项符合 "jacket in which circulates " 的查询结果
google共有 2 项符合"jacket between which circulates "的查询结果




[修改时间: 2009-03-08 06:47 GMT]

[修改时间: 2009-03-09 00:54 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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建议 Mar 8, 2009

dumont wrote:

最近完成一个潜在客户的测试,反馈回来的结果是“看了不行,删了”。并说他们接受了一个英国人的测试稿,最后把这个项目给他了。

好在对方把英国人的试译发表了,下面就是。内容也不多,大家可以抽空评论一下。后面也将把我的试译文贴出。大家也一样评论。因为Proz上的翻译高手多,这会有点意义。讨论一下汉译英到底难在哪里。客户想要什么样的译文,如何做才能做到客户满意等等。

如果你想将自己的译文与此英国人的译文进行对比,那就该现在就把你的译文贴出。 如果你在看了别人的评论意见之后再贴出你的译文,那就似乎欠公正。就像任何考试一样,所有考生都应在与别人讨论答案前交卷。

另外,测试稿水平最高的译者未必就能拿到项目,因为客户选择译者的因素很多,所以不必太在意。 如果觉得心里不平衡,那就应该只接受收费测试,将测试视为一个小项目。至于以后的大项目是否能拿到,就不必管它了。 从另一方面讲,对待每个翻译项目也都应该像对待测试一样认真。


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Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
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链接有问题 Mar 8, 2009

nigerose,

你上面的链接有问题,点开以后是空页,请赶快修补一下。

Kevin


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chica nueva
Local time: 23:11
Chinese to English
混捏成套设备 -》 混捏处理成套工艺及设备 Mar 8, 2009

是这样吗?

http://www.co-reach.net/gongsi_chanpin.htm
全流程配置——飞灰固化、粉煤灰混捏处理成套工艺及设备
Ash solidification facility

[Edited at 2009-03-09 04:33 GMT]


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nigerose  Identity Verified
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应该是这里 Mar 8, 2009

Kevin Yang wrote:

nigerose,

你上面的链接有问题,点开以后是空页,请赶快修补一下。

Kevin



还是不贴出链接为好




[修改时间: 2009-03-08 11:18 GMT]

[修改时间: 2009-03-09 00:56 GMT]


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Alan Wang  Identity Verified
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我的译文 Mar 8, 2009

今天上午发帖,看没有显示帖子,我就出门了。我本来想接着就贴我的译文的。难道proz现在对会员的帖子也是这样吗?

1250型混捏成套设备用于碳素产品的混捏工序。此工序主要由配料工步、混捏工步、热糊料出料工步、热糊料冷却工步、冷糊料出料工步等五个工步组成。 Model 1250 mixer/kneader is used in the processing of carbon products. The process consists of five-procedures as ingredients dispensing, mixing/kneading, hot paste discharging, paste cooling, cold paste discharging.
在开始的配料工序阶段,采用失重称量法把需要称重且符合工艺要求的粉料和沥青,按照要求的配比比例加入到混捏机的混捏腔内。 In the initial ingredients dispensing stage, powder filler and tar conforming to process requirements are weighed using weight loss scale and fed, in accordance with the specified mixing ratio, into the cavity of the mixer/kneader.
完成粉料加料后,预混物料、混捏物料。预混、混捏的工艺要求温度180-250℃。混捏机的混捏腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度180-280℃的循环使用的热导热油,加热混捏糊料。 After the powder particles are fed into the mixer cavity, the stages of premixing and kneading begin at the required processing temperature of 180-250℃. The cavity of the mixer/kneader is equipped with a double jacket containing 180-280℃ circulating oil to heat up and mix/knead the paste.

物料混捏合格,达到工艺要求后,把混捏好的热糊料放置到冷却机的冷却腔内冷却。冷却机的冷却腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度35-40℃的循环使用的冷导热油,热糊料在此冷却。待糊料冷却到70℃后,将冷糊料放置到ACM的进料料斗。 After the materials are mixed/kneaded to process requirement, the hot paste is discharged into the cooler to cool down. The cooler cavity is equipped with a double jacket containing 35-40℃ circulating oil by which the hot paste is cooled to a temperature of 70℃ and then discharged into the ACM feed hopper.


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Alan Wang  Identity Verified
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几点 Mar 8, 2009

nigerose:

你不应该把译网的链接贴出来了。如果是你无意中搜到的,不怪你。我原想这里的翻译高手能客观地分析一下译文。

Ysun所说的“测试稿水平最高的译者未必就能拿到项目,因为客户选择译者的因素很多”可能某些情况是对的。但我以为中国的一些公司或客户好像还没那么复杂。They have yet to develop that kind of sophistication perhaps. 一般都是给测试水平最高的。关键是他们要能辨别译文的质量。

以上这个译稿,客户一口肯定是英国人的,说句老实话,我不太相信。

Nigerose,谢谢你的热情。包括你看出来的几点,这个译文有下面几个问题。
1.第一句话就有问题。“…kneading carbon products.”
碳素产品指的是成品,揉捏这个动作不能用在已经是成品的碳素产品上。不知各位有何意见?

2.This layered structure creates a jacket between which。。。
后面应该用in which, 但也可以说:This layered structure creates a double jacket between which…
这段里有“混捏机的混捏腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度180-280℃的…”
我以为碰到汉语技术文献类似的描述,译成英语,最忌紧跟字面翻译。因为如果你不是该设备的工程师的话,你不知道如何用英语描述才合适。所以我的翻译就略去了“双层结构”的字面。通过网上的搜索,我以为原文作者就是想说double jacket。

3. 第二段里,译者把“失重称量法”译成loss-of-weight method,使得译文读起来的意思不合逻辑,成了:把需要称重的东西放进去,放进去称重吗?原文又没有放进去称重的意思。

4.第四段里出现Refrigeration这个词,用在这里不对头。70度的温度怎么能说冷藏呢?

5.第三段最后几个字,”heating the kneading paste”, 糊料可以用来揉捏其他糊料吗?

希望大家对我的译文也批批,抓到一个类似以上的比较严重的错误,感谢不尽。不要说没有问题,难道我的译文比英国人的译文还好吗?
:)


[修改时间: 2009-03-08 14:34 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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谢谢 Mar 8, 2009

dumont wrote:

Ysun所说的“测试稿水平最高的译者未必就能拿到项目,因为客户选择译者的因素很多”可能某些情况是对的。但我以为中国的一些公司或客户好像还没那么复杂。They have yet to develop that kind of sophistication perhaps. 一般都是给测试水平最高的。关键是他们要能辨别译文的质量。

dumont,

如果其它因素(例如价格等)都相当,当然应该是给测试水平最高的。不过,翻译不像数学题那样有标准答案,有时很难判断水平谁高谁低。

说起来别觉得扫兴和奇怪,在此翻译论坛讨论翻译问题,感兴趣的人不会太多。 不过,我有空时会谈我自己的一孔之见。

[Edited at 2009-03-08 14:57 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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科技文件翻译 Mar 8, 2009

ysun wrote:

... 不过,翻译不像数学题那样有标准答案,有时很难判断水平谁高谁低。



我同意 Yueyin 的意见. 我认为翻译好坏并不在于某几个词汇翻得符合专业与否, 要看通篇文字. 这位中选同事的翻译 整段文字看下来通俗易懂, 没有什么大的差错.


当然这位同事也还有可以改进的地方. 比如这一句稍加整理一下就更清楚些:

... powders and asphalt that need weighing and comply with the process requirements are placed into the kneading cavity of the kneading device according to the required mixture proportions.

... powders and asphalt that comply with the process requirements are weighed and placed into the kneading cavity of the kneading device according to the specified mixture proportions.


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Alan Wang  Identity Verified
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大的差错 Mar 8, 2009

wherestip, thanks for the comment,

但我以为我列的5个问题都属于“大”的差错,

我希望你也能在我的译文里找出这样的差错。



wherestip wrote:

我同意 Yueyin 的意见. 我认为翻译好坏并不在于某几个词汇翻得符合专业与否, 要看通篇文字. 这位中选同事的翻译 整段文字看下来通俗易懂, 没有什么大的差错.


当然这位同事也还有可以改进的地方. 比如这一句稍加整理一下就更清楚些:

... powders and asphalt that need weighing and comply with the process requirements are placed into the kneading cavity of the kneading device according to the required mixture proportions.

... powders and asphalt that comply with the process requirements are weighed and placed into the kneading cavity of the kneading device according to the specified mixture proportions.



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wherestip  Identity Verified
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overall Mar 8, 2009

dumont wrote:

wherestip, thanks for the comment,

但我以为我列的5个问题都属于“大”的差错,

我希望你也能在我的译文里找出这样的差错。



dumont,

可惜你指出的五点基本上都是符合英文的通俗说法的. 日常听得多、看得多了, 你就会有所体会了解了.

就拿 refrigeration 一词来讲吧, 它并不仅限于冷藏的意思 ...



http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Refrigeration

refrigeration re·frig·er·a·tion (rĭ-frĭj'ə-rā'shən)
n.

1.The act or process of cooling a substance.




你的翻译也很不错, 但大体上说 我本人感觉文字稍有些平淡. 作为工艺介绍来讲, 另一篇翻译相比起来可读性更强, 更为通俗易懂.



[Edited at 2009-03-08 22:04 GMT]


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Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
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屏蔽违规的帖子是本网站的权利 Mar 8, 2009

dumont wrote:
今天上午发帖,看没有显示帖子,我就出门了。我本来想接着就贴我的译文的。难道proz现在对会员的帖子也是这样吗?


dumont,

我查了一下,你最近没有被屏蔽的帖子。屏蔽违规的帖子是本网站的权利,与会员和非会员的身份无关。

Kevin


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ysun  Identity Verified
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几点看法 Mar 8, 2009

先就你对别人的意见谈几点看法,以抛砖引玉:
dumont wrote:
这个译文有下面几个问题。
1.第一句话就有问题。“…kneading carbon products.”
碳素产品指的是成品,揉捏这个动作不能用在已经是成品的碳素产品上。不知各位有何意见?

1. 严格讲,你说得有一定道理。不过,这算不了什么大问题。这里的carbon products也可理解为是semi-products,而不是 finished products。当然,也许改成如下形式会好一些: … is used in the kneading process for carbon products.

dumont wrote:
2.This layered structure creates a jacket between which。。。
后面应该用in which, 但也可以说:This layered structure creates a double jacket between which…
这段里有“混捏机的混捏腔是双层结构,双层结构的夹套内通温度180-280℃的…”
我以为碰到汉语技术文献类似的描述,译成英语,最忌紧跟字面翻译。因为如果你不是该设备的工程师的话,你不知道如何用英语描述才合适。所以我的翻译就略去了“双层结构”的字面。通过网上的搜索,我以为原文作者就是想说double jacket。

2, 我同意应该用in which。不过,我不认为这是一个double jacket。Double jacket是指双层夹套,也就是一层夹套之外还有一层夹套。我看不出这里有用双层夹套的必要。 我认为这是一个double-walled structure。The two walls form a jacket。

dumont wrote:
3. 第二段里,译者把“失重称量法”译成loss-of-weight method,使得译文读起来的意思不合逻辑,成了:把需要称重的东西放进去,放进去称重吗?原文又没有放进去称重的意思。

3, 这一段原文就有问题。“把需要称重 ...的粉料和沥青...加入到混捏机的混捏腔内”会使人产生误解。我同意你的理解,这里的意思并非是把需要称重的粉料和沥青放进混捏机去称重,而是先称重后加入,或是边称重边加入。我同意你的句型: “… are weighed and fed into the chamber of the mixer/kneader” 。不过,” loss-of-weight method” 这个术语不能算错。在混捏机之前,应该有一个 “loss-of-weight-type weighing system”。这种称重机构就是以 “loss-of-weight”为基础的。简单的解释就是,先往一个架在load cells上的料斗装入一定物料,然后从料斗下部放料口往外放料。等到料斗与料斗内物料总重量减到一定程度时,放料闸板就自动切断。这个“loss-of-weight”就等于所放出物料的重量。你用的 "weight loss scale" 会让我误解为“减肥秤”。;)

dumont wrote:
4.第四段里出现Refrigeration这个词,用在这里不对头。70度的温度怎么能说冷藏呢?

4. 我个人觉得改为 cooling 会更确切些。

dumont wrote:
5.第三段最后几个字,”heating the kneading paste”, 糊料可以用来揉捏其他糊料吗?

5. 应改为 “heating the kneaded paste” 。
dumont wrote:
希望大家对我的译文也批批,抓到一个类似以上的比较严重的错误,感谢不尽。不要说没有问题,难道我的译文比英国人的译文还好吗?
:)


[修改时间: 2009-03-08 14:34 GMT]


显然你认为你的译文比英国人的译文还好,不然就不会贴出来让大家评理了。:D 不过这也没什么。关于你译文中的问题,我稍后再谈。至于谁的译文好,经过充分讨论之后,自然就会见分晓。以上不成熟意见,欢迎批评指正。


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