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nigerose 
China
Local time: 18:39
Chinese to English
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| 山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象。的含义 | Mar 24, 2009 |
Lesley:
Landscapes: 山舞银蛇 What does it mean? (and is 原 highlands or plains?)
____________
参考：
山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象。的含义
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/68273559.html
“以银蛇飞舞状连绵之群山，以蜡象奔驰拟起伏之高原”
So you can see which translation is wrong.
[修改时间: 2009-03-24 02:47 GMT]
| | | | | 《文心雕龙》"The Literary Mind and the Carving of Dragons" | Mar 24, 2009 |
《文心雕龙》"The Literary Mind and the Carving of Dragons":
有没有人学习过这个杰作？
请问，《文心雕龙》的‘雕龙’指‘创造’吗？
[ Refer... See more
| | | | | “山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象”；waxen/wax-hued elephants | Mar 24, 2009 |
nigerose wrote: Lesley: Landscapes: 山舞银蛇 What does it mean? (and is 原 highlands or plains?) ____________ 参考： 山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象。的含义 http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/68273559.html “以银蛇飞舞状连绵之群山，以蜡象奔驰拟起伏之高原” So you can see which translation is wrong. [修改时间: 2009-03-24 02:47 GMT]
谢谢你，nigerose!
那，“山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象”的银、蜡到底是指颜色还是材料还是...，你认为...
Lesley
其中最具代表性的是周振甫的《毛泽东诗词欣赏》，他这样解读“原驰蜡象”：“秦晋高原，盖着雪的丘陵，一个接着一个，像一只只白象在奔跑。”... 但问题是：作者何以想到用“蜡象”来形容覆雪的群山呢？
http://cn.qikan.com/Article/ywjs/ywjs200612/ywjs20061218.html
沁园春·雪》之“原驰蜡象”新解 江合友
[Edited at 2009-03-24 07:12 GMT]
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 18:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
hi, Lesley，我不是很懂诗词。但不要用你农业专家的思维来思考具体是指颜色还是材料，当作一个整体来想象吧。
[修改时间: 2009-03-25 04:31 GMT]
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| reptiles, etc; 成语 4-character sayings about the sun | Mar 25, 2009 |
@ nigerose 那, 银、蜡 -》silver, waxen 应该就行了吧。
据说中国，‘两栖类约有二百种；爬行类约有三百种。’Apparently, China has 'around two hundred types of amphibian and around three hundred types of reptile.' （《祖国》，中国青年出版社，1983）这么一写可以意识到在世界上应该算比较多，但实际上多不多我还不知道。另外，在这里amphibian/reptile 加‘s'可不可以。本人觉得更顺口一点。
wherestip wrote: lai an wrote:
第一章 具茨山 龙首迎日
My translation:
Chapter One Juci Mountain Longshou Greets the Sun
Excellent translation, Lesley. [Edited at 2009-03-24 11:10 GMT]
wherestip, thank you very much! 关于"龙首迎日"，我是使用“后羿射日”Hou Yi Shoots the Suns、“夸父追日”Kua Fu Chases the Sun 来做模范的。[ English translations here:
http://www.chinahistoryforum.org/index.php?showtopic=5560&pid=4820131&mode=threaded&show=&st=0]
Did you see 加了一条‘游龙’在 敦煌，月牙泉？http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/129977-question_about_tv_show_the_water_margin_水滸傳-page2.html#1087874
音乐：另外，估计大家听说过 Crocodile Rock， 但是也有一首Eagle Rock值得提 ...
http://www.proz.com/forum/off_topic/129770-not_so_much_deadlock_as_threadlock-page4.html#1076912
关于聂耳的民族音乐，除了《金蛇狂舞》以外还有《翠湖春晓》： http://music.guqu.net/hezou/3085.html
在线欣赏一（上海电信线路） | 在线欣赏二（广东电信线路） | 在线欣赏三（网通线路）
[Edited at 2009-03-26 03:12 GMT]
| | | | | Classes of legend; 'Kua Fu Chases the Sun' remaking nature; 'Hou Yi Shoots the Suns' work-ways | Mar 26, 2009 |
The marvellous and multifaceted ancient myths and legends
...
The stories use visualisation, mysterious and wonderful, strong and magnificent, to reflect the rich and colourful historical content of the Chinese society of remote antiquity. Amongst them are:
those which express a firm and tenacious will to remake nature, such as "Yugong Yishan" and "Kuafu Zhuiri";
those which reflect great strength in subjugating nature, such as "Nüwa Butian"... See more The marvellous and multifaceted ancient myths and legends
...
The stories use visualisation, mysterious and wonderful, strong and magnificent, to reflect the rich and colourful historical content of the Chinese society of remote antiquity. Amongst them are:
those which express a firm and tenacious will to remake nature, such as "Yugong Yishan" and "Kuafu Zhuiri";
those which reflect great strength in subjugating nature, such as "Nüwa Butian" and "Pangu Kai Tiandi";
those which show a spirit which would rather die than give up, such as "Jingwei Tianhai" and "Xingtian Wuganqi";
those which sing the praises of working for the good of the people and of willing self-sacrifice, such as "Gun Yu Zhishui" and "Shennong Changyao",
those which portray romantic love, such as "Niulang Zhinü", and so on.
These beautiful, moving legends reflect people's explanations of natural phenomena, but even more, they show people drawing strength from their imagination in their desire to conquer nature.
...
In the midst of magical fantasy, the two stories "Houyi Sheri" and "Nüwa Butian" also mentioned work-ways - the art of smelting rock, and eulogised a means of work - the marvel of the bow and arrow. Mankind's real life was expressed in romantic visualisation, and it shows us that the basis for China's ancient legends, generally speaking, was real.
...
Translated from Wang Yong Kuan et al., Native land, China Youth Press, Beijing, 1983
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/102098-万里长城与黄帝的子孙-page2.html#858916
见：瑰丽多姿的古代神话
《后羿射日》和《女娲补天》这两段神话，在神奇的幻想中还提到了劳动方式——炼石之术，赞美了劳动工具——弓箭之妙。人类现实生活在浪漫的想象中得到了表现，它说明中国古代神话的创作基础，一般地说也是现实的。
...
王永宽、等，《祖国》，中国青年出版社，北京，1983
[Edited at 2009-03-26 07:51 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 18:39
Chinese to English
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lai an wrote:
@ nigerose 那, 银、蜡 -》silver, waxen 应该就行了吧。
据说中国，‘两栖类约有二百种；爬行类约有三百种。’Apparently, China has 'around two hundred types of amphibian and around three hundred types of reptile.' （《祖国》，中国青年出版社，1983）这么一写可以意识到在世界上应该算比较多，但实际上多不多我还不知道。另外，在这里amphibian/reptile 加‘s'可不可以。本人觉得更顺口一点。
[
Lesley，我不是诗词专家，别问我。
至于amphibian 和reptile，当作类属名词，应该可以不用加s。但加s的情况比较多。
Oh，my god，这个问题我应该反问你这个native才对。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 05:39
Chinese to English
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lai an wrote:
再来一条‘游龙’：
鸣沙山与月牙泉
...
后人游览此地，多作诗篇形容月牙泉出天马的事曰：“四面风沙飞野马，一潭云影幻游龙”。这使月牙泉的奇特风景又加上了传奇的色彩。
段德义、齐宝玲、李映瑞编，《甘肃旅游指南》，中国旅游出版社，北京，1982
Then, in later generations, many of the sightseers who came here wrote poems describing how the Crescent Moon Spring gave rise to the heavenly horse, "On all four sides wind and sand a flying wild horse, in the deep pool clouds and reflections a fantastical frolicking dragon". This meant that the unusual scenery of the Crescent Moon Spring gained yet another legendary colouring.
Translated from Duan, Qi & Li eds., Gansu Tourist Guide (1982), China Tourism Publishing House, Beijing
'一潭云影幻游龙 in the deep pool clouds and reflections a fantastical frolicking dragon' 怎么样？
I'm sorry, Lesley. I somehow missed this section of your previous post.
But I think "fantastical frolicking dragon" is an excellent choice of words for the term 游龙. Not only is it descriptive, but it also captures the essense and the beauty of the poem.
[Edited at 2009-03-26 11:41 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 05:39
Chinese to English
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nigerose wrote: lai an wrote:
@ nigerose 那, 银、蜡 -》silver, waxen 应该就行了吧。
据说中国，‘两栖类约有二百种；爬行类约有三百种。’Apparently, China has 'around two hundred types of amphibian and around three hundred types of reptile.' （《祖国》，中国青年出版社，1983）这么一写可以意识到在世界上应该算比较多，但实际上多不多我还不知道。另外，在这里amphibian/reptile 加‘s'可不可以。本人觉得更顺口一点。
[ Lesley，我不是诗词专家，别问我。 至于amphibian 和reptile，当作类属名词，应该可以不用加s。但加s的情况比较多。 Oh，my god，这个问题我应该反问你这个native才对。
Yep. "three hundred types of reptiles" definitely sounds better.
| | | | pkchan
United States
Local time: 06:39
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
慕宏 2005-5-10 19:46
《沁园春·雪》中的“原驰蜡象”
《沁园春·雪》中的“原驰蜡象”
小时候读毛泽东主席的《沁园春·雪》时，除了感到大气磅礴之外，却也有些不解之处。
比如“山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象，欲与天公试比高”中的“原驰蜡象”，竟不知该如何理解。查了几个诠释毛主席诗词的版本，大致解作“在白雪覆盖之下，群山蜿蜒，恰如银�... See more 慕宏 2005-5-10 19:46
《沁园春·雪》中的“原驰蜡象”
《沁园春·雪》中的“原驰蜡象”
小时候读毛泽东主席的《沁园春·雪》时，除了感到大气磅礴之外，却也有些不解之处。
比如“山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象，欲与天公试比高”中的“原驰蜡象”，竟不知该如何理解。查了几个诠释毛主席诗词的版本，大致解作“在白雪覆盖之下，群山蜿蜒，恰如银色的长蛇在舞动；秦晋高原丘陵起伏，正似白蜡色的象群在奔驰。”看似解得详尽，然仔细一琢磨，疑团又起：若是按这样解释，当初词人为什么不直接写“丘驰蜡象”，为何单用这“原”字呢？若是这“原”字解作秦晋高原，那么那“山舞银蛇”之“山”难道就不在秦晋高原之上吗？如果在，意思岂不是显得重复了？
通观这词的上阕，只除一句“须晴日，看红装素裹，分外妖娆”是词人的想象外，余皆是写实手法，如“北国风光，千里冰封，万里雪飘。望长城内外，唯余莽莽；大河上下，顿失滔滔。”实在是词人登高远望，目之所及，如实描绘。且措辞平白，耳闻能详其意，大有白居易诗词之风。行文至此，应当不会引用什么典故，如前之“山舞银蛇”，也明白易解；后之“欲与天公试比高”，在雪花纷飞之时，积雪的山看起来确实与天相连，不辨高低了。所以我想，词人绝不会在“原驰蜡象”这四个字里弄甚玄虚，应该是与“山舞银蛇”相对才是。若如此，则“山如银色的长蛇在舞动”，而“原似蜡做的群象在奔驰”，才符合词人本意。
然本人生长于南方，从小对“原”字的理解是“一望无际”，怎么也联想不及这一马平川之地如何作奔驰着的蜡象状，更何谈“欲与天公试比高”乎？从此存疑。
一次出差坐飞机到西安，飞到陕西境内，往下看去，忽然发现一种从未见过的地形，从飞机上看下面似乎是好几十亩的一片平地，但等飞机飞过去一点再看，这平地的边缘就如悬崖一般，下面竟是几百米深的沟壑！放眼周围，却有许多这样的地形，象一群黄土台子。旁边的人看我惊奇，便告诉我，这是西北黄土高原长期被流水冲刷形成的独特的地形，叫做“塬”，人们便在塬上耕种、生息。有趣的是，有时在这个塬上能看见对面塬上的人，还能相互喊上几句话，可是要从这个塬走到那个塬上去，也许要花上大半天时间呢。
听了此话，若有所悟，再看那塬，果然象个梯形，四边陡顶上平。出差回来便查字典，果然“原”字可以同“塬”。此时再读“原驰蜡象”便有了形象：被积雪覆盖的群塬乍看似一群蜡做的大象，在漫天的雪花中仿佛奔驰而来。
疑团既解，不觉哂然，这“原驰蜡象”若于陕西人也许就如常识一般地明白，而于我这江南生长的人却根本无感性认识基础，便奇怪了那么多年。www.hlmbbs.com/forum/archiver/?tid-136.html ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 05:39
English to Chinese
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Steve,
《沁园春·雪》是毛泽东当年在陕西延长县即兴创作的。相必你也一定见过“山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象”的景象吧？
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 05:39
Chinese to English
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ysun wrote: Steve, 《沁园春·雪》是毛泽东当年在陕西延长县即兴创作的。相必你也一定见过“山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象”的景象吧？
Oh, indeed there were some spectacular views when it snowed. We usually stayed indoors when it snowed heavily, so it made it that much more beautiful.
I didn't even know that that's where this was written.
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ysun
United States
Local time: 05:39
English to Chinese
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| Certainly, it made it much more beautiful | Mar 26, 2009 |
wherestip wrote: Oh, indeed there were some spectacular views when it snowed. We usually stayed indoors when it snowed heavily, so it made it that much more beautiful. I didn't even know that that's where this was written.
但也有不同说法。另一说法是陕北清涧县。不知清涧县离延长县有多远？
http://www.5156edu.com/page/08-07-13/35980.html
毛泽东从瓦窑堡出发，经过延川到达延长县县城。１９３６年１月底，他在这里主持召开军委扩大会议并作了报告，进一步阐述了发展和巩固的关系，以解除一些干部中存在的担心红军主力东征会影响陕甘根据地巩固的顾虑，也批评了李德所说东征是“想挑起日苏战争”的错误观点。这次会议进一步统一了思想，加快了东征的战备步伐。
这时，恰好下了一场大雪，毛泽东心情极好，作了一首词──《沁园春•雪》：
http://baike.baidu.com/view/522675.htm
1936年2月，毛泽东同志率领红军长征部队胜利到达陕北清涧县袁家沟，准备渡河东征，开赴抗日前线。为了视察地形，毛泽东同志登上海拔千米白雪覆盖的塬上，当“千里冰封”的大好河山展现在他眼前时，不禁感慨万千，诗兴大发，欣然命笔，写下了这一首豪放之词《沁园春•雪》。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 05:39
Chinese to English
+ ...
ysun wrote: 但也有不同说法。另一说法是陕北清涧县。不知清涧县离延长县有多远？ http://www.5156edu.com/page/08-07-13/35980.html 毛泽东从瓦窑堡出发，经过延川到达延长县县城。１９３６年１月底，他在这里主持召开军委扩大会议并作了报告，进一步阐述了发展和巩固的关系，以解除一些干部中存在的担心红军主力东征会影响陕甘根据地巩固的顾虑，也批评了李德所说东征是“想挑起日苏战争”的错误观点。这次会议进一步统一了思想，加快了东征的战备步伐。
这时，恰好下了一场大雪，毛泽东心情极好，作了一首词──《沁园春•雪》： http://baike.baidu.com/view/522675.htm 1936年2月，毛泽东同志率领红军长征部队胜利到达陕北清涧县袁家沟，准备渡河东征，开赴抗日前线。为了视察地形，毛泽东同志登上海拔千米白雪覆盖的塬上，当“千里冰封”的大好河山展现在他眼前时，不禁感慨万千，诗兴大发，欣然命笔，写下了这一首豪放之词《沁园春•雪》。
Yueyin,
我也不知道清涧县在哪里. 但看这个地图, 延长在延川的南边, 清涧在延川的北边. 所以这几个县的地势应该是差不太多的. 我插队的公社叫安沟, 当年是穷中之穷的地方.
http://www.9654.com/m/yanchuan.htm
[Edited at 2009-03-26 22:48 GMT]
| | | | | Questions: 1 How do dragons move? 2 Are there stock attitudes/poses?; auspicious animal | Mar 26, 2009 |
wherestip wrote: lai an wrote:
再来一条‘游龙’：
鸣沙山与月牙泉：“四面风沙飞野马，一潭云影幻游龙”。（段德义、齐宝玲、李映瑞编，《甘肃旅游指南》，中国旅游出版社，北京，1982）"On all four sides wind and sand a flying wild horse, in the deep pool clouds and reflections a fantastical frolicking dragon". I'm sorry, Lesley. I somehow missed this section of your previous post. But I think "fantastical frolicking dragon" is an excellent choice of words for the term 游龙. Not only is it descriptive, but it also captures the essense and the beauty of the poem. [Edited at 2009-03-26 11:41 GMT]
Steve
1 Thank you very much! 不敢当。I am quite fond of 'frolicking' here, for two reasons: I think I have seen pictures and animations of Chinese dragons frolicking in the clouds. And, for me, there is an association with 'leviathan frolicking in the ocean'. (BTW in that piece, for 四面, I had to make a choice between on 'all four sides' and 'all around' ... )
2 In the same way, the Great Wall-dragon at Jiayuguan appearing and disappearing in the Gobi evoked (for me) pictures of 'Nessie' (not the plesiosaur, the sea-serpent type) in the loch: http://www.explorehistoricalif.com/images/badwater_nessie.jpg
3 Two questions:
i How do dragons move? only up-and-down or from also side-to-side 'snakewise'? (If it's only 忽高忽低，忽上忽下, then 'sinuous' won't do, I guess, and perhaps 'meandering' could be doubtful ... 请问，你的‘meander' 是‘慢悠悠无目标地走’的意思吗，还是...?)
ii And I wonder are 游龙 and 舞龙 stock images, like lion-rampant?
[ Apparently Nessie visited Shenyang last year, courtesy of a Scottish company: http://www.polenth.com/news/archives/19 The Dragon Stone. This is a nice site. It has all sorts of dragons, including Mongolian naga. But no taniwha ... http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_chinese/folklore/1309831-taniwha.html ]
4 Auspicious animals etc, Song poet, Li Qing Zhao:
《醉花阴》：薄雾浓云愁永晨，瑞脑消金兽。
"Drunk under Flower Shadows"：
'Mist and thick clouds tire of endless day, the auspicious essence leaves the golden animal.'
Any suggestions?
[Edited at 2009-03-27 03:13 GMT]
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