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Off topic: 茶馆 : 所有"无关紧要的"话题
Thread poster: xxxchance

wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
Chinese to English
+ ...
My apologies Mar 21, 2016

Fargoer wrote:


However, the issue of complexity is beside the point.


这点我不太明白。您说围棋规则比国际象棋简单得多,提出的不正是复杂性问题吗?我是顺着您的思路在想呀?



Fargoer,

Yes, you're right. I edited that post multiple times, not just for my wording, but most importantly for my reasoning. Unfortunately, the final version that got displayed for some reason was multiple drafts prior to the final draft that I decided upon.


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ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
先别担心 Mar 21, 2016

Fargoer wrote:

wherestip wrote:

IMO, one of the prominent artificial intelligence project that tackled the issue of understanding human language was IBM's Watson when it participated in the TV game show Jeopardy! Challenge.

However, last I checked, IBM doesn't yet list "English《-》Chinese" machine translation as one of their offerings.


[Edited at 2016-03-21 02:54 GMT]


感谢老祖宗!我们的汉语复杂精妙!

可是能乐多久?

先别担心,能乐多久就乐多久。该吃就吃,该喝就喝,该睡就睡,该干嘛就干嘛。等大部分其他语种的翻译们都失业之后,再来担心这个问题。


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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 14:58
English to Chinese
您真豁达 Mar 21, 2016

ysun wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

wherestip wrote:

IMO, one of the prominent artificial intelligence project that tackled the issue of understanding human language was IBM's Watson when it participated in the TV game show Jeopardy! Challenge.

However, last I checked, IBM doesn't yet list "English《-》Chinese" machine translation as one of their offerings.


[Edited at 2016-03-21 02:54 GMT]


感谢老祖宗!我们的汉语复杂精妙!

可是能乐多久?

先别担心,能乐多久就乐多久。该吃就吃,该喝就喝,该睡就睡,该干嘛就干嘛。等大部分其他语种的翻译们都失业之后,再来担心这个问题。


我是有点杞人忧天。

我们真是幸运啊!天塌下来,我们也是最后被砸着的。

看今晚能不能睡个好觉。


[修改时间: 2016-03-21 23:50 GMT]

[修改时间: 2016-03-21 23:50 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
Chinese to English
+ ...
读一篇短讯想到的 Mar 22, 2016

这期 Time Magazine 的一短小专栏 "Brief History" 报导那场人对机器的围棋比赛,并追溯历史说 AI 在棋艺上战胜人类精粹已不足为奇,从 70 年代就开始了。

机器翻译的发展搞了好久了,中英语言对从 六、七十年代就开始。 就中英来说,如今仍是不登大雅之堂。所以我觉得翻译与下棋的差别还是相当悬殊的。 



http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/ibm100/us/en/icons/translation/

By the early 1950s, IBM had developed an English-Russian translator using the IBM 701 Electronic Data Processing Machine, the company’s first commercial scientific computer. This program incorporated logic algorithms that made grammatical and semantic “decisions” that mimicked the work of a bilingual human. This work advanced in the 1960s when IBM developed a machine and programs for translating Chinese. IBM researchers used phrase structure analysis to match the meaning of ideographic Chinese characters with other languages.

Around the same time, IBM built the Automatic Language Translator, a custom computer for the military that used a high-speed optical disk with 170,000 words and phrases to translate Russian documents into English.




[Edited at 2016-03-23 04:24 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
Chinese to English
+ ...
From Time Magazine Mar 22, 2016



Machines beating mankind

In a milestone for AI, a Google program beat South Korean grand master Lee Sedol at the strategy game Go on March 15. But machines have been mastering board games since the 1970s. - Tara John

Backgammon
A program called BKG 9.8 became the first to defeat a human in a board game in 1979 when it beat then world champion Luigi Villa in a 7-1 match. Its creator said the victory was due to luck.

Checkers
Chinook became the first program to win a world championship against humans in 1994 when the opponent Marion Tinsley withdrew because of illness. The program retained its title a year later.

Chess
IBM's Deep Blue computer defeated grand master Garry Kasparov in a highly publicized 1997 tournament. The Russian won the first game, drew in the next three and forfeited his last after 19 moves.




[Edited at 2016-03-22 22:41 GMT]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:58
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
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其實更精準的翻譯軟件已有 Mar 23, 2016

而且不止一種,有的待價而沽,有的只為國家特別部門使用,臉書如能進入中國市場,也會推出翻譯工具。AI 在 BOARDGAMES 的興趣,也是着眼於商業及廣告收益的考慮。現時,機械翻譯的準確度,已比過往任何時期高,當然我們是可以隨時找到一些可笑的例子,愈是多人找到錯誤,更正與學習的過程便會更快。人工智能學習,糾正錯誤的能力更強,而且不會疲勞,速度更不必說了。



[Edited at 2016-03-23 00:55 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
Russian into English Mar 23, 2016

wherestip wrote:

机器翻译的发展搞了好久了,中英语言对从 六、七十年代就开始了。 就中英来说,如今仍是不登大雅之堂。所以我觉得翻译与下棋的差别还是相当悬殊的。 

Around the same time, IBM built the Automatic Language Translator, a custom computer for the military that used a high-speed optical disk with 170,000 words and phrases to translate Russian documents into English.

英文与俄文的许多名词,在字母上都一一对应,甚至连发音都很相近。例如丁二烯,英文为 butadiene,俄语为 бутадиен;又如电气化,英文为 electrification,俄语为 электрификация。所以,从俄语翻译成英文、德文等语言,远比从中文翻译成英文、德文等要容易得多,开发翻译软件也会容易得多。因此我可以说,即使俄英翻译失业了,中英翻译还不必担心。即使中英翻译要失业,首先失业的也是我们这些科技翻译。最后失业的才是那些翻译小说、诗歌等文艺作品的高人。

俄语属于印歐語系中的斯拉夫語族。英语与德语、荷兰语等语言同属印欧语系中的日耳曼语族。估计英语、德语、荷兰语这些语言相互之间翻译起来将会更容易。

遗憾的是,虽然中文翻译相对较难,如今价格却普遍比其他很多语种还低!

[Edited at 2016-03-23 05:54 GMT]


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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 14:58
English to Chinese
塞翁失马 Mar 23, 2016

pkchan wrote:

臉書如能進入中國市場,也會推出翻譯工具。


Google translate 的英汉-汉英翻译水平进步不快,会不会与被迫撤离中国有关?


AI 在 BOARDGAMES 的興趣,也是着眼於商業及廣告收益的考慮。現時,機械翻譯的準確度,已比過往任何時期高,當然我們是可以隨時找到一些可笑的例子,愈是多人找到錯誤,更正與學習的過程便會更快。人工智能學習,糾正錯誤的能力更強,而且不會疲勞,速度更不必說了。


而且,电脑还不会老。 😏


[修改时间: 2016-03-23 03:30 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
Chinese to English
+ ...
Who knows what tomorrow brings Mar 23, 2016

But right now ...

https://translate.google.com/#en/zh-CN/It%20is%20not%20ready%20for%20prime%20time


[Edited at 2016-03-23 08:45 GMT]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:58
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Google Translate 只用了 0.57 seconds Mar 23, 2016

一心一意 Wholeheartedly
一丘之貉 Birds of a feather
一目了然 At a glance
一帆風順 Smooth sailing
一刻千金 Every minute counts
一事無成 Nothing
一敗塗地 Crushing defeat
一針見血 Sharply
一清二楚 Crystal clear
一意孤行 Insists

準確度算高,當然有沙石,成績算不錯吧。


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pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:58
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
再試一次 0.50 seconds Mar 23, 2016

一落千丈 Plummeted
一鳴驚人 Blockbuster
一諾千金 Yinuoqianjin
一時興起 Whim
一蹴可及 Yicukeji
一籌莫展 Do nothing
一覽無遺 At a glance
一竅不通 Know nothing about
一視同仁 Equally
一模一樣 Exactly

這次還有待改進。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:58
Chinese to English
+ ...
Gobbledegook Mar 23, 2016

pkchan wrote:

一落千丈 Plummeted
一鳴驚人 Blockbuster
一諾千金 Yinuoqianjin
一時興起 Whim
一蹴可及 Yicukeji
一籌莫展 Do nothing
一覽無遺 At a glance
一竅不通 Know nothing about
一視同仁 Equally
一模一樣 Exactly

這次還有待改進。


只字片言还可以,一段话就不可目睹了。
Only a fragment can, some can not, then we have witnessed.


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Vivian Du (PhD)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 22:58
Member (2015)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Inevitable but very challenging Mar 23, 2016

wherestip wrote:

只字片言还可以,一段话就不可目睹了。
Only a fragment can, some can not, then we have witnessed.


I think the MT will be the future even for English-Chinese. However, I don't think it can replace human translation for normally complex-text in the near future. The problem is that the most popular MT model is based on statistics on the phrase level. The bilingual database need to be much larger for it to function well at longer sentence level. Combining the statistical model with the rule (or grammar) - based model may solve the problem and speed up the MT development. But again, if MT developers decide to turn to the rule-based model, they will be faced by two immediate challenges for the English-Chinese pair, one of which is the looseness of Chinese grammar, and the other one is the differences in the way of logic expression between the western and Chinese languages. In Chinese writing, sometimes logic is implicitly expressed. We do not merely rely on "signal words", such as "since, because, therefore" and so on. In this regard, I agree with fargoer that "感谢老祖宗!我们的汉语复杂精妙!"


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QHE
United States
Local time: 16:58
English to Chinese
+ ...
Good to Know Mar 23, 2016

wherestip wrote: The Nature of Human Language

For one, at the beginning stage of a Go game, nobody in their right mind would put their game pieces on the outside border of the board. However, the issue of complexity is beside the point.


Let’s go to Google Translate ...


wherestip wrote:
Unfortunately, the final version that got displayed for some reason was multiple drafts prior to the final draft that I decided upon.


New AI feature?

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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 14:58
English to Chinese
开放的力量 Mar 24, 2016

Google translate 的强大在于它是个开放平台。免费向所有人提供服务,也让使用者帮助它提高质量。众人的力量不可估量啊!

其实不用等到机器和人译得一样好。一旦 Google translate 的翻译质量达到一定程度,校改机译稿比自己翻译容易,译者就可以利用 Google translate 提高效率。等到译者都习惯于做校改而不做翻译了,翻译这个职业就事实上消亡了。

不过,翻译公司大概不会让这种情况发生。他们派活儿的方式可能早就改变了。没有翻译,都是校改。价钱减半,爱干不干! 呜呜呜 !

[修改时间: 2016-03-24 04:34 GMT]


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