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Off topic: 茶馆 : 所有"无关紧要的"话题
Thread poster: xxxchance
isahuang
Local time: 20:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
几点了?你还在线上? Mar 4, 2008

chance wrote:

连砍头都是必要的,只是砍头不好掌握适度

Tingting Huang wrote:
适度的打还是有必要的


几点了?你还在线上?

[Edited at 2008-03-04 01:23]


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
因为要被砍头 Mar 4, 2008

我正胆战心惊呢,你和我对话,就不怕得罪了皇上

Tingting Huang wrote:

几点了?你还在线上?


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
Uselessness of Spanking & Paddling Mar 4, 2008

Tingting Huang wrote:

适度的打还是有必要的


本网站第四次翻译比赛所使用的各个语言的文本,都是有关孩童教育和孩童观点的文章,其中西班牙文那一篇至今还留在我的脑海中,以下引用该文的得奖英文翻译:

http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=past_contests&sp_sub_mode=view_language&ctlid=256&from_url=past_contests

What should I teach my children? Should I tell them to be honest and upright, or should I teach them to look out for number one? Idealist or pragmatic? Is it a mistake to imbue them with values that the real world seems not to appreciate?

But why ask these questions at all? Our children might listen to what we say but they learn from what we do or fail to do. They are aware of every small gesture and act; our tone of voice; any inconsistency between word and deed. Nothing escapes the keen attention of these little people that life has put into our charge.

由于成人的作为,告诉孩童该怎么做都不见得能够得到效果,成人做不到的、言行不一的,孩童又不是没有自己的脑袋,打他们又能得到什么效果呢?


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chica nueva
Local time: 13:56
Chinese to English
新西兰立法禁止家长打孩子 Mar 4, 2008

http://news.sohu.com/20070518/n250095780.shtml

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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:56
English to Chinese
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Abraham Harold Maslow Mar 4, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Tingting Huang wrote:

适度的打还是有必要的


Uselessness of Spanking & Paddling

由于成人的作为,告诉孩童该怎么做都不见得能够得到效果,成人做不到的、言行不一的,孩童又不是没有自己的脑袋,打他们又能得到什么效果呢?


Tingting,

我们很少对话,不过我一直注意到,你是一个非常具有求知欲的人,阅历也相当广泛,加上学习了不止英文一种外语,通过不同的语言,能看见的世界更是广阔,因此我觉得,如果能有机会认真跟你对话,肯定激荡出不少能触发心智进步的元素。

我们以往稍谈过Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville对于美国民主初期的批评及预测。托克维尔在美式民主不到百年的时间内,就预见了那种民主将会如何发展。他的预言如今看来,确实相当准确,即使在美国也有不少思想家(Noam Chomsky)同意他的看法,但是在任何社会里都不可能只有思想家,也不可能只有知识分子,还有许多需要具有思想指导性和拥有知识权力的人来照顾的芸芸众生。如果能让芸芸众生的思想水平提升,让他们得到知识,因此能照顾自己,那么民主的改善就会更加理想。

在这条改善的路线上,在美国的民主社会文化下,产生了许多在思想上具有指标性的人物,其中一位就是我在这贴里特别要介绍的Abraham Harold Maslow。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow

马斯洛的思想非常值得研究,他的humanistic psychology对现代教育学和管理学发挥了极大的改善作用,影响所及并不局限于美洲,而且也影响了欧洲的思想方向。从他的人文心理学出发,我们得到了“人性化管理”的教育理念,那就是修正托克维尔所批评的民主缺陷的最佳工具。

在这里我并不深入谈论马斯洛的思想,只想指出这号人物,让有兴趣的人自行查找研究。不过,我想引用他的言语来结束这个贴文:“心若改變,你的態度跟著改變;態度改變,你的習慣跟著改變;習慣改變,你的性格跟著改變;性格改變,你的人生跟著改變。”希望这个引述对所有的人都能够有帮助,无论是在改善孩童教育上、改善人群社会的运作上或在改善自己的命运方面,这样的言语是值得一再思考的。


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
跟我的经历正好相反 Mar 4, 2008

我把孩子送到私人学校一年,正好是最糟糕的一年,我并不光指成绩,而是综和起来看。

以后你有孩子可以试试适度打,我那个几乎没打,现在也很懂事了,我倒希望她能保持更长时间的童心。

Tingting Huang wrote:
适度的打还是有必要的
chance wrote:

女孩子就更不用打了,我那女儿基本没挨过打,到后来大了,有一次气得我就要打她,结果她把手臂一挡,事后还告诉我根本不疼,但是我的手特疼,从此以后我就记住了,不再打她

我姥姥说我也是从小特老实,没挨过打,我想大概这就是为什么我现在还老不信邪的原因

Yueyin Sun wrote:

记得有年春节晚会有个关于打电话的节目,儿子给他爸打电话拜年,他爸问起孙子的情况时说,“你要是再打他,我跟你没完!”


[Edited at 2008-02-29 14:56]


美国也不是完全不允许打孩子,看怎么打了。parents can spank kids, 也许每个州有不同的规定,但我知道很多州是允许"spank that little bottom"。

One of my older students told me that when he was in school, paddling was still allowed. And at that time, students did have discipline and had respect to their teachers.

Well, if you only send kids to the best public schools near where you live, you wouldn't know what kids in an average school here are like or what the education is like in those shcools. One of my coworkers worked as a substitute teacher for one year in public schools in a good neighborhood. After this experience, her opinion of American K-12 education completely changed.

There is a huge difference between public schools and private schools here. Though we do have some good K-12 public schools, on average private schools are of much better quality. One of my American friends said as long as he can afford, he will keep sending his kids to private schools.




[Edited at 2008-03-04 01:19]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
On the right track Mar 4, 2008

lai an wrote:

新西兰立法禁止家长打孩子

http://news.sohu.com/20070518/n250095780.shtml


Your law-makers are on the right track. Michel Foucault was of the opinion that "Violence is a signal of weakness, not strength."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/213420
Our culture continues to perpetuate tired images of masculinity: rough and tumble men, emotionally stunted, distant and unresponsive, whose only means of resolving conflict or wielding power is through aggression and force.

Men will continue to be bound and shackled — and our society plagued by cruelty and brutality — as long as we continue to raise boys to be this way. I yearn for a new masculinity: a masculinity that understands that:

● Violence is a sign of weakness, not strength.
● Aggression and hostility erode, rather than bolster, one's authority.
● The use of force intensifies, rather than resolves, conflict.

Some folks will probably think that I am trying to emasculate our men by turning them into pansies and taking away their strength and vigor. But it is precisely this fear of all things feminine and loathing of gay people that chains men. When masculinity is defined solely by what it is not, it becomes a caricature and a twisted distortion.


Especially to be recommended reader of Foucault's insights is his "Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_and_Punish


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chica nueva
Local time: 13:56
Chinese to English
300,000 sign smacking petition - news report in English Mar 4, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

lai an wrote:

新西兰立法禁止家长打孩子

http://news.sohu.com/20070518/n250095780.shtml


Your law-makers are on the right track. Michel Foucault was of the opinion that "Violence is a signal of weakness, not strength."



http://www.stuff.co.nz/4411616a6479.html


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isahuang
Local time: 20:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
你推荐的这个人 Mar 4, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Tingting,

我们很少对话,不过我一直注意到,你是一个非常具有求知欲的人,阅历也相当广泛,加上学习了不止英文一种外语,通过不同的语言,能看见的世界更是广阔,因此我觉得,如果能有机会认真跟你对话,肯定激荡出不少能触发心智进步的元素。

我们以往稍谈过Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville对于美国民主初期的批评及预测。托克维尔在美式民主不到百年的时间内,就预见了那种民主将会如何发展。他的预言如今看来,确实相当准确,即使在美国也有不少思想家(Noam Chomsky)同意他的看法,但是在任何社会里都不可能只有思想家,也不可能只有知识分子,还有许多需要具有思想指导性和拥有知识权力的人来照顾的芸芸众生。如果能让芸芸众生的思想水平提升,让他们得到知识,因此能照顾自己,那么民主的改善就会更加理想。

在这条改善的路线上,在美国的民主社会文化下,产生了许多在思想上具有指标性的人物,其中一位就是我在这贴里特别要介绍的Abraham Harold Maslow。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow

马斯洛的思想非常值得研究,他的humanistic psychology对现代教育学和管理学发挥了极大的改善作用,影响所及并不局限于美洲,而且也影响了欧洲的思想方向。从他的人文心理学出发,我们得到了“人性化管理”的教育理念,那就是修正托克维尔所批评的民主缺陷的最佳工具。

在这里我并不深入谈论马斯洛的思想,只想指出这号人物,让有兴趣的人自行查找研究。不过,我想引用他的言语来结束这个贴文:“心若改變,你的態度跟著改變;態度改變,你的習慣跟著改變;習慣改變,你的性格跟著改變;性格改變,你的人生跟著改變。”希望这个引述对所有的人都能够有帮助,无论是在改善孩童教育上、改善人群社会的运作上或在改善自己的命运方面,这样的言语是值得一再思考的。


我还真不知道,回去好好研究研究。你最后的引用的quote总结得太好了。我希望我能来一个shortcut,直接跳到最后性格改变,让我的人生也跟着变一变。


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
大学之道在明明德 Mar 4, 2008

Tingting Huang wrote:

你推荐的这个人,我还真不知道,回去好好研究研究。你最后的引用的quote总结得太好了。我希望我能来一个shortcut,直接跳到最后性格改变,让我的人生也跟着变一变。


今日很少人直接读Abraham Maslow的著作,大多间接读别人研究他的思想所写的著作。也许由于如此,此人在东方世界并不很受到注意。

大家都希望能抄捷径,立即得到改变的效果,不过“大学”里说“物有本末,事有終始,知所先後,則近道矣。”,还是按部就班,最终的效果才会出现。加油!


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
有趣的新闻 Mar 12, 2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html

这个新闻让我想到台湾的情况,笑了半个小时。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:56
Chinese to English
+ ...
Sex Scandal Mar 12, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

这个新闻让我想到台湾的情况,笑了半个小时。



Yeah, Eliot Spitzer just resigned a while ago, effective Monday. As New York State Attorney General, he was a big-time crusader on Wall Street and prosecuted many corrupt market insiders for their wrongdoings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer

As they say, what goes around comes around. That's why the Christian faith preaches "don't judge".

This country is still very conservative. Perhaps people in France would have just shrugged it off as an issue of someone's private life. We all know how it would have been received in China; in that respect, China is really liberal



[Edited at 2008-03-12 18:17]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
In Europe, in general, I'd say. Mar 12, 2008

wherestip wrote:

This country is still very conservative. Perhaps people in France would have just shrugged it off as an issue of someone's private life. We all know how it would have been received in China; in that respect, China is really liberal


我觉得,如果那位辞职的州长牵涉到洗钱的内情,当然需要受到法律追诉。但若只是他床上的事情,我觉得美国的选民未免也管太多了些。

最近我们的一位总统候选人,在某周刊发表他父亲晚年的风流艳事之前,先出来说:我很尊敬我的父亲,但他不是完美的人。呵,那当然的啰。有谁是完美的?问题是,对待自己和对待别人总有点儿不同。对待别人用放大镜,用显微镜;对待自己则是用可以美化的镜子。

这位史必策先生算是栽了。谁叫他不是在台湾从政,我们这里的选民可是善良得很,只要给他们画大饼,给他们未来美梦,达不达到不打紧,都没关系。谁还管那些“彩旗飘飘、红旗不倒”的?


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isahuang
Local time: 20:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
不然 Mar 12, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

wherestip wrote:

This country is still very conservative. Perhaps people in France would have just shrugged it off as an issue of someone's private life. We all know how it would have been received in China; in that respect, China is really liberal


我觉得,如果那位辞职的州长牵涉到洗钱的内情,当然需要受到法律追诉。但若只是他床上的事情,我觉得美国的选民未免也管太多了些。




transport prostitute across states 在美国是federal crime。所以不能睁一只眼,比一只眼。;)
其实,美国人那么喜欢自由市场经济理念,这事儿也应该让市场来发挥作用。
以上纯属午饭后瞎说,就当是助消化吧。


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