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ysun  Identity Verified
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万恶的资本主义社会 Nov 14, 2009

Zhoudan wrote:

中美房价对比
http://shihb.blog.sohu.com/136750877.html

其中这段话很有意思:

再说明一点,这只是我在美国的一些见闻。美国不是天堂,但是,我们要汲取它好的一面,经常对照别人的优点才能更清晰地看到自己的不足,这样做的目的,是为了促使各级官员从诸如“钓鱼”这样的繁杂事务中摆脱出来,认清腐朽、堕落的资本主义执政者通过重视诸如住房这类民生欺骗、麻痹人民的可耻伎俩,认真执行中央的各项民生政策,正确落实科学发展观、建设和谐社会,以使民众摆脱房奴的枷锁,在生活质量上赶超英美,使万恶的资本主义社会露出狰狞的面孔,遭到全世界人民的唾弃,使中国特色的执政理念成为各国效法的典范,在人类历史上写下最光辉的一页。


北美华人已经“认清腐朽、堕落的资本主义执政者通过重视诸如住房这类民生欺骗、麻痹人民的可耻伎俩”,所以,尽管国内房价这么贵,还是有“近七成受访北美中国留学生希望回国工作和长期居住”:

http://www.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2009/9/223472.shtm


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
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会心的笑 Nov 14, 2009

这段我看完就笑出声来了。这位先生经常用这种阴阳笔。:-D


ysun wrote:

其中这段话很有意思:

再说明一点,这只是我在美国的一些见闻。美国不是天堂,但是,我们要汲取它好的一面,经常对照别人的优点才能更清晰地看到自己的不足,这样做的目的,是为了促使各级官员从诸如“钓鱼”这样的繁杂事务中摆脱出来,认清腐朽、堕落的资本主义执政者通过重视诸如住房这类民生欺骗、麻痹人民的可耻伎俩,认真执行中央的各项民生政策,正确落实科学发展观、建设和谐社会,以使民众摆脱房奴的枷锁,在生活质量上赶超英美,使万恶的资本主义社会露出狰狞的面孔,遭到全世界人民的唾弃,使中国特色的执政理念成为各国效法的典范,在人类历史上写下最光辉的一页。




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wherestip  Identity Verified
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腐朽的资本主义 Nov 14, 2009

That reminds me of one of the news items I read on CNN.com yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/13/jefferson.sentencing/index.html



Alexandria, Virginia (CNN) -- Former U.S. Rep. William Jefferson was sentenced Friday to 13 years in prison followed by three years of supervised release for his conviction on 11 counts of corruption.

Jefferson was also ordered to forfeit more than $470,000 after his conviction for using his office to solicit bribes.



因此看来法治对这种贪污受贿的犯罪行为多少还有些制约, 而不是靠所谓的 "高薪养廉".



[Edited at 2009-11-14 15:25 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Blog Nov 14, 2009

Zhoudan wrote:

中美房价对比

http://shihb.blog.sohu.com/136750877.html



I just scanned through Mr. Shi's blog on real estate in this country. What he said about housing prices is mostly true. However, you can't really buy anything half way decent that is under $100K, unless it's a foreclosure. And that is by and large only a recent phenomenon that mostly resulted from the financial crisis.

What he mentioned about all the social programs and housing subsidies is also not mainstream. I believe only those who fall below the poverty line(or very close thereof) could qualify for that kind of welfare. Those kinds of programs and housing projects vary from state to state. The recipients are basically accepting aid from the Government and other taxpayers; it's really not something a person with a whole lot of self-esteem wants to be living on.

Anyway, it's very different than getting certain sums of allowances for housing by the company or organization you work for, as is perhaps a common practice in China. In China, it might be a prestigious thing to be eligible for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidized_housing

p.s. notice this is only a wikipedia page explaining what "subsidized housing" is. It's not about subsidized housing available in the U.S.



[Edited at 2009-11-15 11:45 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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To get a clearer picture Nov 14, 2009

"Section 8" is probably one of the programs Mr. Shi was referring to. It is for very low-income families ...

http://portal.hud.gov/portal/page/portal/HUD/topics/housing_choice_voucher_program_section_8


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ysun  Identity Verified
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Government subsidized apartment Nov 14, 2009

Steve,

此人在美考察房地产市场情况的时间并不长,但对情况的了解却比我强得多。不过,政府 Low-income housing program 的 income limits 好像不是 under the poverty line,而比 poverty line 高不少。


[Edited at 2009-11-14 22:36 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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随感 Nov 14, 2009

看了周丹贴出的那篇文章,感触很深。中国老百姓好容易挣的辛苦钱,到底主要是进了房地产商和贪官们的腰包,还是进了国库?我看是前者。难怪中国的首富是搞房地产的,而且在短短十几年内就能成为首富。这个问题确实应尽快解决。不能把老百姓的这个沉重包袱一代代传下去。

《蜗居》描写了上海一对年轻白领夫妇的生活。 他俩均毕业于复旦大学,但两人每月工资总共只有9,000元,每月开销却将近12,000元,其中房屋贷款6,000元,占家庭总收入三分之二。
http://www.proz.com/post/1214402#1214402

美国的大学毕业生只要有较稳定的工作,买房就不是什么大问题。对于双职工就更不是问题。

STARTING SALARY SURVEY
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/highest_starting_salaries/index.htm

2009 NSPE SALARY SURVEY
http://www.engr.utk.edu/nuclear/salary.html


[Edited at 2009-11-15 08:19 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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affordable housing Nov 14, 2009

ysun wrote:

Steve,

此人在美考察房地产市场情况的时间并不长,但对情况的了解却比我强得多。不过,政府 Low-income housing program 的 income limits 好像不是 under the poverty line,而比 poverty line 高不少。



Yueyin,

Yes, it could be. I'm not familiar with these programs either. They definitely exist, but they're also not widely advertised. I think given the choice, not many people would want to live in a housing project or receive housing subsidies - there's a certain stigma to it.


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ysun  Identity Verified
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善事 Nov 14, 2009

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin,

Yes, it could be. I'm not familiar with these programs either. They definitely exist, but they're also not widely advertised. I think given the choice, not many people would want to live in a housing project or receive housing subsidies - there's a certain stigma to it.

Steve,

你说得不错。不过从政府和其他纳税人的角度出发,能够帮助低收入者也是一件善事,即使不能称之为共产主义精神。;)


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Public Housing Nov 14, 2009

ysun wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin,

Yes, it could be. I'm not familiar with these programs either. They definitely exist, but they're also not widely advertised. I think given the choice, not many people would want to live in a housing project or receive housing subsidies - there's a certain stigma to it.

Steve,

你说得不错。不过从政府和其他纳税人的角度出发,能够帮助低收入者也是一件善事,即使不能称之为共产主义精神。;)


是这样. 贫富不均是资本主义的一大弊病. 但慈善机构和乐于助人的人在美国也很多.

维基百科这一页是关于 Public Housing 的. 其中一段也介绍了美国 Public Housing 的历史和状况. 有兴趣的可以看看.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing

又一页更详细些 ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_the_United_States



[Edited at 2009-11-14 20:12 GMT]


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
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前面还有两篇 Nov 15, 2009

http://shihb.blog.sohu.com/135290983.html

http://shihb.blog.sohu.com/134561915.html


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ysun  Identity Verified
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作者敢于讲真话 Nov 15, 2009

谢谢小周提供链接。原以为作者只是在美国游览后随便发表见闻和感想,现在才知他是一位严肃的学者。难怪他看问题很有深度。像这样敢于讲真话,不怕别人骂他“卖国贼”的精神真是很可贵。只有经常吸取国外好的经验,才不致于坐井观天、固步自封。否则,就永远只知道别人是在“水深火热”之中。当然,美国也有许多问题,也可以作为后车之鉴。国内某些媒体往往从实用主义角度出发,根据需要选择报道内容。例如,他们最不喜欢报导的就是这样一类新闻:

《中国成人才流失最大国 百万精英滞留海外》
http://www.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2009/7/221656.shtm

而最喜欢报导的则是:
《近七成受访北美中国留学生希望回国工作和长期居住》
http://www.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2009/9/223472.shtm

《教育部官员:不能把海外留学生统计为“滞留海外”》
http://www.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2009/8/222852.shtm
(试问,如果不能把海外留学生统计为“滞留海外”,应该统计为什么?难道统计为“他们是在做俯卧撑”?:D)

《美国约30个州濒临破产向联邦政府求援》
http://news.163.com/08/1218/09/4TEE6B1U0001121M.html
(实际上,即使某州政府破产,那也不等于该州经济破产。以加州为例,它的经济实力与世界其它各国相比,经常是名列世界第5位或第6位,即富可敌国。克林顿时期,联邦政府也有发不出工资的时候。但是,在克林顿离开白宫前,美国经济就恢复到了鼎盛时期。)


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ysun  Identity Verified
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2008 California Economy Rankings Nov 16, 2009

Source:
http://www.ccsce.com/PDF/Numbers-Aug09_2008-California-Economy-Rankings.pdf

Top World Economies in 2008
(GDP in trillions of USD, a trillion = 1,000,000,000,000 = 一万亿)
1. U.S. - 14.265
2. Japan - 4.909
3. China - 3.86
4. Germany - 3.653
5. France - 2.853
6. UK - 2.646
7. Italy - 2.293
8. California - 1.847
9. Brazil - 1.612
10. Russia - 1.608

California was the world’s eighth-largest economy again in 2008. According to U.S. Department of Commerce estimates, California’s GDP (gross domestic product) was slightly more than $1.8 trillion. GDP is the value of all goods and services produced in California. It is equivalent to the gross domestic product estimates prepared for the nation and other countries.

China is the fastest growing of the world’s large economies. According to World Bank estimates, China is now the world’s third-largest economy having passed Germany in 2008. France passed the United Kingdom in 2008 to become the fifth-largest world economy.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Soon the 2nd largest economy Nov 16, 2009

这几天电视报道里谈中国的很多, 跟 Obama 访华当然有关. 所有的评论对中国的发展之神速所持观点基本上都是肯定赞叹的.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/wealthofnations/archive/2009/08/04/china-s-economy-will-surpass-japan-s-this-year.aspx



It's a position that Japan as a country has come to know well. These days, the Japanese population as a whole is hand-wringing over the fact that they will probably loose their spot as the No. 2 economy in the world (and the No. 1 player in Asia) to China by the end of the year. The Japanese have been in decline for ages─they only just came through their “lost decade” of the '90s and early part of this century. Yet this year has proven that they have further to fall. The second-quarter GDP figures, out at the end of May, were truly terrible─the country declined 15.2 percent on an annualized basis. Meanwhile, the Chinese continue their seemingly endless upward trajectory, with a likely 8 percent growth this year─in the middle of the worst economic period since the Great Depression. No wonder world leaders can’t make it to Beijing fast enough to mug with Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao. Last week’s U.S.-China Economic Dialogue just made clear what we already knew: Japan is now an also-ran in Asia, and China is taking the dominant position, not only economically but politically too.



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wherestip  Identity Verified
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capitalism Nov 16, 2009

Here's an interesting article ...

The Whole Point Of Capitalism

http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/27/capitalism-michael-moore-love-story-opinions-columnists-michael-maiello.html



In his new movie, Michael Moore calls capitalism evil and argues that it should be replaced by democracy, basically flipping the current arrangement so that the economy serves our political ends. A lot will be said, good and bad, about Capitalism: A Love Story, about Michael Moore and about the lives of the economic victims. Moore's real question is, does it serve us or do we serve it? It's supposed to serve us. It's supposed to have a point.

We don't subject ourselves to the brutalities of a competitive economy because it's fun. We do it because we have a collective mission: the elimination of poverty and scarcity for all humanity. Before the study of economics became mired in mathematical theory and its practitioners started to fancy themselves as scientists, economics was widely regarded as a branch of moral philosophy. Adam Smith, John Maynard Keynes and Karl Marx all have this in common--they used the discipline of economic philosophy to try to create systems that would one day eliminate poverty and scarcity. That their ideas about how to do this diverge wildly doesn't really matter. That they share a goal does.



Incidentally, it looks like "the whole point" is correct English after all


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