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Off topic: 茶馆 : 所有"无关紧要的"话题
Thread poster: xxxchance

wherestip  Identity Verified
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Affordability in Home Prices Nov 22, 2009

Here are the 5 metro areas where the average American family can afford to purchase a median-priced home
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/2.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/3.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/4.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/5.html


-- and the 5 where they can't.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/6.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/7.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/8.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/9.html
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0908/gallery.Most_and_least_affordable_major_housing_markets/10.html (Incidentally, Nassau County, NY is where I spent my childhood, one of the reasons I always preferred flatter terrain. Beijing, where I spent most of my teen years, is very flat too, BTW)

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_County,_New_York



[Edited at 2009-11-22 15:20 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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美国商品 Nov 22, 2009

在美国买东西和住房差不多, 贵的很贵, 便宜的很便宜, 应有尽有.

美国人概括说来不是普遍懂得节约的, 这两年由于金融危机还好一些.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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A Newsweek Article and Its Survey Nov 22, 2009

http://www.newsweek.com/id/222979



On some issues there is widespread agreement: two thirds of respondents believe innovation will be more important than ever to the U.S. economy over the next 30 years. But the survey shows some striking contrasts as well. Eighty-one percent of Chinese believe the U.S. is staying ahead of China on innovation; only 41 percent of Americans agree. To find the next big breakthrough, Americans are focused on improving math and science education, while Chinese are more concerned about developing creative problem-solving and business skills.

Around the globe, there are signs that the recession may be easing—and as it does, people of all nationalities will resume their hunt for the best products, the best investments, and the best jobs. As the world's economy speeds back up, regaining our faith in our ability to innovate will be critical.




http://www.newsweek.com/id/222768



[Edited at 2009-11-22 20:55 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Computer chips or potato chips Nov 22, 2009

To the nation's wealthy, it doesn't matter whether America makes computer chips or potato chips. That was an issue way back in the 1992 Presidential debate. I think the U.S. and China both have come a long way since then: one for the better, one for the worse. Due to our policies, the U.S. has lost most of its tecnological advantages.

Here's a random link I found where some people were yakking about the subject, a couple of years ago that is ...
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/535/ShowThread.aspx

I always held this opinion about the direction this nation is going ...
http://www.proz.com/post/542872#542872



Competition

Wenjer,

When it comes to the personal computer, IBM has to be the biggest loser of all time. The then executive team was blissfully asleep at the wheel, and practically nurtured Microsoft and Intel into IBM's biggest competitors in the high tech industry.

But that's all history now. Microsoft and Intel are also finding themselves in a very competitive landscape these days, trying to fend off companies like Google and AMD from encroaching on their turf. IBM has learned its lesson and is actually maintaining an edge over its competition.

IMO all this mirrors what's happening to the U. S. on a global basis, as China rises to become a world economic superpower, seemingly an inevitable event and is only a matter of time when it turns into reality. The politicans in Washington are collectively asleep at the wheel, spending precious resources on fighting a never-ending war in Iraq. In the meanwhile, China is playing catch-up, not only in its own domestic economic development, but also playing an active role in many economic infrastructure projects of other third-world nations, gaining tremendous popularity internationally, and also reaping some financial benefits itself, a win-win situation.

... But again I digress.



BTW, I remember Bush Sr. couldn't answer what a gallon of milk generally sold for when asked, around the time he was running for his 2nd term in the White House



[Edited at 2009-11-22 20:58 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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房价收入比 Nov 22, 2009

Steve,

确实,影响美国房价的因素很多,不同的地区房价差别也很大。但从你所举的例子看来,即使是在 least affordable cities,房价收入比也远低于北京、上海等地。所以,中国许多城市的房价确实是高得太离谱了。

《北京房价收入比达27:1 不吃不喝27年买套期房》
http://news.xinhuanet.com/house/2009-08/21/content_11920203.htm
昨日(2009年8月20日),房地产中介机构中大恒基根据北京市统计局和北京市房地产交易管理网的相关数据计算得出,目前北京市的房价收入比已达27:1,超出国际平均水平5倍。
......

昨日,北京市统计局发布数据称,今年上半年,城八区从业人员平均劳动报酬为28289元。参考该数据,按照每个家庭有两人工作计算,北京市家庭平均年收入为11.3万元(不考虑个税及保险等支出)。

不过,对于北京市统计局提供的这个“北京市家庭平均年收入为11.3万元”,恐怕还得打个问号。一名大学教授每年才挣多少钱?

《高房价之痛:一套房子透支几代人积蓄》
http://news.xinhuanet.com/house/2009-09/04/content_11993288.htm
房价正在重回“疯狂”状态。2009年上半年,北京房价涨幅近三成,上海商品住宅成交均价不断走高,逼近1.74万元/平方米的历史最高纪录,深圳房价创11个月来新高,广州位居全国新建住宅销售价格月度环比涨幅首位……

无论从哪一个角度看,中国部分城市房价过高是一个不争的事实,不仅是普通老百姓买不起房子,中等收入群体也感觉很吃力。在高房价的挤压下,越来越多的家庭为了一套房子耗尽了一生的财富,甚至是几代人的积蓄,这已经成为了社会不可承受之重。


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ysun  Identity Verified
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Speaking of Intel Nov 22, 2009

Steve,

去年汶川发生地震后,Intel 的很多员工(无论是不是华裔)也都积极捐款救灾。这倒是很正常。但有点令我感到意外的是,对于每名员工的捐款,Intel 公司都按照 1:1 的比例 match。我想,美国许多大公司大概也是如此。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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What makes the U.S. a land of opportunity Nov 22, 2009

Yueyin,

Thanks for the links about the current red-hot real estate market in China. I agree with you that home prices have to be affordable to the people. Only then could the goal (or "vision") of achieving a true harmonious society be realistic.

Before I left China, the rent for a 3 to 4 room apartment where we lived was less than ¥10 a month. Of course it was an entirely different system back then: no real estate was privately owned; all real estate properties belonged to the government in one form or another. The average factory worker's monthly salary was only around ¥40. Yet basic consumer goods were cheap and affordable; people were by and large happy and content with their then standard of living.

But needless to say, the system has slowly but surely fundamentally changed over the course of 3 decades ... So skip over that development and fast-forward to present-day China.

Couple of years ago, LoyalTran started a thread about the escalating cost of living in Shanghai. From what is being reported in the Chinese media these days, and what many of you have been saying in this forum, it seems like inflation has only gotten worse.

Of course, without any firsthand knowledge of the cost of living in any Chinese cities, I'm not at all qualified to make any meaningful comparisons. But regardless, when all is said and done, one thing I believe the United States will always have an advantage of is its pioneering spirit. As we both mentioned here in the past, the National Park System is one of the true symbols of the spirit of freedom and democracy ...

http://www.proz.com/post/648016#648016


And I'm glad that some of us basically think along the same lines ...

Libin PhD wrote:

其实,美国最好的还是民主,除了有基本生活,有饭吃以外,思想和心灵的自由是人内心的最高追求,要不然“生命诚可贵,爱情价更高,若为自由故,两者皆可抛”为什么会在全世界引起这么大的共鸣呢。当然,民主社会下,思想和心灵的自由并不是说你可以妨碍他人的自由。





[Edited at 2009-11-22 22:54 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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只比物价 Nov 23, 2009

wherestip wrote:

Couple of years ago, LoyalTran started a thread about the escalating cost of living in Shanghai. From what is being reported in the Chinese media these days, and what many of you have been saying in this forum, it seems like inflation has only gotten worse.

http://www.proz.com/post/648016#648016

Steve,

你和李斌的话提醒了我,像时寒冰先生这样的有识之士即使喊破嗓子恐怕也没多大用,反而会给自己惹麻烦。 我推举他当物价总局局长,也只不过是开开玩笑而已。;)

从 LoyalTran 两年多前提出房价这个问题以来,情况确实变得更严重了。过两年我们再来看看,到底情况是好转还是更加恶化; 看看有没有人会从时先生所说的“资本主义执政者通过重视诸如住房这类民生欺骗、麻痹人民的可耻伎俩”中悟出点教训来。:D


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
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这段视频蛮好看的 Nov 23, 2009

http://lxp.51caiju.com/252006a5c85258d964dbe34d23bc71bb.html

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ysun  Identity Verified
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寒酸的白领 Nov 25, 2009

ysun wrote:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/house/2009-08/21/content_11920203.htm

昨日,北京市统计局发布数据称,今年上半年,城八区从业人员平均劳动报酬为28289元。参考该数据,按照每个家庭有两人工作计算,北京市家庭平均年收入为11.3万元(不考虑个税及保险等支出)。

不过,对于北京市统计局提供的这个“北京市家庭平均年收入为11.3万元”,恐怕还得打个问号。一名大学教授每年才挣多少钱?

一看到北京市统计局的上述数据,我就感到此统计数据水分很大。有的北京人看到该数据后倒是没说他被“忽悠”了,而是说他被“富裕”了。尽管如此,根据上述数据计算,城八区从业人员每月平均劳动报酬为4715元。 我今天看到的报道说,北京四成人认为月薪五千不算白领。如果月薪五千还不能算白领的话,那么北京人的平均报酬就低于白领标准。不知北京市统计局看了那些报道会有何感想? 按照下面这篇文章所说情况,笔者夫妇(退休的教授和研究员)都不能算白领!

《北京人均GDP9000美元和退休10年以上教授人均收入6706美元》
http://www.sciencetimes.com.cn/m/user_content.aspx?id=252556

笔者1998年已经退休,老伴则退休于1996年,她1985年即为中国艺术研究院的研究员,还享有国务院的特贴,然而工资收入比我还低。我们两位教授的年人均工资为45600元,按照1美元兑换6.8计算,则是6708美元。

当然,北京也有一些教授年收入在百万以上(其中绝大部分是工资外收入),但大部分大学教授、讲师,月薪在所谓白领标准以下。怪不得国内不少大学教授、讲师也不得不加入“码字”行列。


《北京四成人认为月薪五千不算白领》
http://news.sohu.com/20091124/n268408234.shtml

《调查北京白领生活状态 月薪五千还算不算白领》
http://news.sohu.com/20091123/n268399511.shtml


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ysun  Identity Verified
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麦当劳算什么东西? Nov 25, 2009

麦当劳算什么东西?垃圾食物!相比之下,我宁愿吃煎饼和油条,最好再来一碗豆浆或豆腐脑!

《北京四成被调查者认为月薪5千不算白领》
http://news.sohu.com/20091124/n268408234.shtml
在一些出入写字楼的办公室族眼中,收入5000元难以维持所谓白领的生活。“早餐我和同事大多吃煎饼和油条,哪能天天吃麦当劳?”


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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GDP per capita Nov 25, 2009

Yueyin,

Here's an article you might find interesting ...

http://economics.about.com/library/weekly/aa043004a.htm?p=1



GDP could be a solid measure of “national income”, but not necessarily GDP per capita is for “average national income”. In capitalist economies in which few people get overwhelmingly rich while the majority of the nation progresses just modestly, how accurate would simple arithmetic mean be in representing average level of income? Do the highest figures in the highly heterogeneous US income distribution cause arithmetic mean formula yield a value with a small frequency? In other words, is US GDP per capita an income that is made by only few Americans?

Answer to this question lies at how higher “highest incomes” are than the “others”, and what percentage of US citizens earns them ...

...

As seen clearly, a vast majority of American households are making annual incomes that are not even comparable with those of few wealthiest people. The transition to this “L-Curve” from the traditional “Bell-Curve” is why GDP per capita is no longer a good measure of America’s average income.

Political philosopher David Schweickart pinpoints income inequality reality with a dramatic statement: "…If we divided the income of the US into thirds, we find that the top ten percent of the population gets a third, the next thirty percent gets another third, and the bottom sixty percent get the last third. If we divide the wealth of the US into thirds, we find that the top one percent own a third, the next nine percent own another third, and the bottom ninety percent claim the rest. Actually, these percentages true a decade ago, are now out of date. The top one percent are now estimated to own between forty and fifty percent of the nation's wealth, more than the combined wealth of the bottom 95%.”



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ysun  Identity Verified
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贫富差距 Nov 25, 2009

Steve,

我理解黄安年教授那篇文章的主要意思一是认为某些机构宣传夸大其词,二是像他们这样的高级知识分子待遇偏低。 黄安年先生原为北京师范大学历史系教授。我看了一下他博客中的某些文章,觉得写得很好。 他的博客中还有世界各国见闻以及不少照片。

http://baike.baidu.com/view/1169496.htm?func=retitle

http://www.sciencetimes.com.cn/u/黄安年/

http://www.sciencetimes.com.cn/m/user_index1.aspx?userid=415

谢谢你提供的链接。美国贫富差距确实很大。我倒是希望时寒冰先生下次来美时重点考察一下这个问题,并比较一下中美都有的贫富差距问题。不过美国的大多数人似乎过得还可以,处于贫困线以下者也还是有人管。 遗憾的是,美国很多好的东西没人学;坏的东西别人学起来却很快,甚至变本加厉。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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home ownership in China Nov 25, 2009

ysun wrote:

遗憾的是,美国很多好的东西没人学;坏的东西别人学起来却很快,甚至变本加厉。



Yueyin,

同意, 洋为中用并不是盲目照搬, 而是应该取其精华、去其糟粕. 不少人好的学不会, 坏的却学得很快, 我感觉也是如此.

BTW, 我对国内 home ownership 情况没什么概念, 只是听说目前房价暴涨, 普通百姓越来越买不起. 所以我最初这帖只凭印象所发表的意见有可能并不符合实际情况, 特此道歉并更正一下

之所以这么说, 是因为刚才在网上查了一下, 国内房产所有情况与我想象的出入很大. 国内似乎自己拥有房子的人口比例非常之高. 不管是公家低价卖给的, 还是所谓的"商品房", 据称是 2002 年房产拥有率就达到了 80% 以上. I'm like the person who wrote this piece - almost fell out of my chair when I read that.

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Home-ownership-rates-in-China-and-the-different-ownership-titles-18749.html


不管怎么说, 贫富分化的现象是应该有具体的措施逐步控制缩小的, 而不是将差距放纵拉大或任其自流. 这方面 黄安年先生说的一点儿没错. 不管是多年从事高等教育的退休教师, 还是保家卫国的退役军人都应该有公平的生活待遇和报酬.



[Edited at 2009-11-26 02:16 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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官员们偷换概念 Nov 26, 2009

wherestip wrote:

BTW, 我对国内 home ownership 情况没什么概念, 只是听说目前房价暴涨, 普通百姓越来越买不起. 所以我最初这帖只凭印象所发表的意见有可能并不符合实际情况, 特此道歉并更正一下

之所以这么说, 是因为刚才在网上查了一下, 国内房产所有情况与我想象的出入很大. 国内似乎自己拥有房子的人口比例非常之高. 不管是公家低价卖给的, 还是所谓的"商品房", 据称是 2002 年房产拥有率就达到了 80% 以上. I'm like the person who wrote this piece - almost fell out of my chair when I read that.

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Home-ownership-rates-in-China-and-the-different-ownership-titles-18749.html

Steve,

It is natural that you and that author nearly fell off the chair because you were fooled by that number. “80% of homes are privately owned” doesn’t mean “80% of the residents own their homes”.

如果确实已经有80%的居民拥有自己的住房,那么目前的房价就不可能如此之高。 你根本就不必道歉。真正该道歉的是那些为了往自己脸上贴金而不惜忽悠老百姓的官员们。

Please see the following:

住房私有率≠自有率 "世界第一"非政绩是危机
http://news.xinhuanet.com/house/2006-07/11/content_4816304.htm

显然,82%的住房是私有的与82%的住户有私有住房,意思有天壤之别。如果82%住户拥有自己的产权房,那么,这个成绩当是惊人的,因为世界上确实没有这么高的住房拥有率;而如果82%的住房是私有的,那么,只能表明公有住房少,不能表明拥有自己住房的居民多。可以作为证明的是,7月4日的《北京晨报》报道说,国家统计局主管的中国国情研究会与万事达卡国际组织近日发布《2006中国生活报告》显示,年收入超过11万元高收入群体中33%的人拥有两套住房,10%的人拥有3套及3套以上住房,所有被调查者的户均住房面积为113平方米。这就是说,即使住房私有率很高,那也可能集中在少数人的手中。


“住房私有率”:又拿数字来忽悠人
http://news.xinhuanet.com/fortune/2006-05/15/content_4548217.htm


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