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Do we learn anything from this dispute?
Thread poster: Kevin Yang

Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:20
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Mar 19, 2002

Dear Translators:



Thank you for the discussion here. I think Xiaoping brought up an interesting question. Lets talk about it. I suggest to ask the question as what is a fair rate for a translator? I will create a new folder for this topic. Please share your wisdom with us in THAT folder!



I tried very hard to guide this discussion into a healthy path which can lead all of us to learn something valuable from this unfortunate dispute between YangJS and GLASSIKA. Instead of getting Glassika\'s positive feedback to my previous message posted in this Forum under the file name \"Let\'s end it here, please!\" I saw another message today in this folder from Glassika in the nature of bitter attach. It looks like someone did not get the drip.



I think it is necessary for Glassika to make a clarification when Xiaoping was questioning about the rate this company is paying to its translators, but it is NOT necessary at all for to start all over again the proof about the qualification of your counterpart in this dispute. It is neither healthy nor constructive. Stop it!



Let me make my point again and hope this will help you. You knew the Chinese translator you decided to hire for this job is a native Chinese who lives in China and he never lived or worked in an English speaking country or environment. You knew your job is a translation from Chinese to English. You did not run a test to check his English translation skills. It is you who is unrealistically expecting this translator would produce the English translation in a quality that is meeting your standard or acceptable to you. You took your risk and got what the translators can offer. I am sure the translator tried his best. His quality might work well in China. If you dont like it, then it is your fault to push him for this translation. So, pay him whatever the agreement was between you two and get over with it. I am sure both of you learned a good lesson and will be more careful when you are in a similar situation again.



Sincerely,



Kevin



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Scott Li  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:20
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
+ ...
It was US$260 not NT$260 Mar 20, 2002

to answer one of your questions :



quoted



As I had already advised my business trip, but he still sent me the project (4743 words) on Mar., 4 for NT$260(NOW I UNDERSTAND IT\'S ABOUT USD , the day before my trip. I normally work with an English native editor on Chinese>English translation as I have worked with a UK company, for which I have supplied them over 20,000 words for a project on tourism since 1999.



unquoted


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Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:20
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I receive this email and let me share with you. Mar 20, 2002

-----Original Message-----

From: proz@proz.com [mailto:proz@proz.com] On Behalf Of translation@glossika.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:09 PM

To: tongli@TongliUSA.com

Subject: [ProZ mail] Frankly Speaking



-----------

You have been sent a message via your ProZ.com page.

Author: Glossika

Author\'s profile: http://www.proz.com/translator/27033

-----------



We could not guarantee his background when he lies. When he contacted us and told us that he\'d been to so many places and speaks English perfectly and had requested projects so many times...we should have known better he was trying to stir up trouble. For all we know, the way he lies, he could be a little child who likes to manipulate people.



Before he started any of our projects, our policies were posted in the emails and he could see that we would not pay if the translation was not of quality standard. He took it at his own risk and can consider it a practice run.



We don\'t really care what you guys are bickering about in this forum. We never posted anything without facts and proof (translations, texts, emails). He has never posted proof, all lies. We did not press him to do our translations, we have many others willing to do them. He was so eager to do them, but he screwed up. He only did one document for the NB website out of more than 100! We did not have these problems with any of the other translators. All he has to do is read our policy and understand that he is not going to get paid. He took the assignments at his own risk because we had to find somebody else to translate the materials.



This guy is like a bomb waiting to explode. He needs to see a psychiatrist before he accidentally goes out and kills somebody. He has called our offices yelling at our secretaries and they have no idea what he\'s talking about. This guy has mental problems. And nobody knows his background. He doesn\'t sound stable.



On the other hand, we have a stable and ethical business environment.



One other thing, we\'re not sure why you\'re the one controlling all of these conversations. Your face itself has popped up on quite a number of bad postings together with William Yang\'s writing so it\'s already quite obvious you are in cahoots with him. So I\'m sure a lot of people are wondering why you\'re together with him sharing his experience when you\'ve never done work for us. We cannot tell if you are lying. Good luck to you.



I hope you all have fun at that forum if it keeps you busy. Real translators will have their work to do and ignore your forums.



-----------

Keep your profile up to date:

http://www.proz.com/translator/2918

To login and edit your profile, go to:

http://www.proz.com/translator/

-----------



Dear email sender and our translators:



I just received this email. It was sent to my personal email address. Now let me share it with you. By the way, sender, I do have a name. My name is Kevin Yang. What is your name, may I ask?



What kind of person you are or company you have should be judged by the others, not by yourself. You tried so hard to pain your eye brows, I think you tried too hard, now they look like two pieces of black tapes stuck on your forehead. I think this email from you tells me a lot about you as a person. When you do not know how to respect the others, you do not get respect back.



I am a proud American Chinese, and English is my second language. You are right, my English is not perfect, but my English is certainly better than you Chinese.



Relax, I am doing a volunteer job here as a moderator in the Chinese Forum. Sorry to hear my picture irritates you. I guess you have to live with it for a while.



I thought Taiwan is a beautiful island. But I do not see any beauty in your email. I wonder why?



Sincerely,



Kevin



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Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:20
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Here comes their 2nd email! Mar 20, 2002

Dear Translators:



Enjoy the reading so far? I just received another one from them. Keep reading, perhaps more to come. This is the entirety of the 2nd email I just received:



Kevin



-----Original Message-----

From: proz@proz.com [mailto:proz@proz.com] On Behalf Of translation@glossika.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 8:55 PM

To: tongli@TongliUSA.com

Subject: [ProZ mail] Conclusion



-----------

You have been sent a message via your ProZ.com page.

Author: Glossika

Author\'s profile: http://www.proz.com/translator/27033

-----------



Kevin,



We understand now. Do not call yourself American; you neither understand nor stand for American values.



You\'re deceitful, lying, dishonest, unegalitarianistic, prejudiced, undemocratic, repressive (of free speech), untrustworthy, devious, insincere, and indirect.



These are all opposite of American values. You are a communist and a virus in America. Let those in China be communist and leave them be. This YangJS is an egocentric child. But you know better. Of course, you have the right to express brotherhood with your compatriots, but you should not act like a communist, especially on American soil.



Why have you not posted all of Glossika\'s remarks in the forum? You are not democratic and there is a constitutional right to FREEDOM of speech in a FREE country. We have done nothing but defend ourselves and provide proof and yet you even dare mock. Shame on thyself!



Post this email there too, if you want. Everyone may then understand how insincere you are and how you cannot be trusted.



Michael Stevens

-----------

Keep your profile up to date:

http://www.proz.com/translator/2918

To login and edit your profile, go to:

http://www.proz.com/translator/

-----------



Michael,



Thank you for your email. I think you forgot to mention that we have five folders in the Chinese Forum are related to your topic, since this Forum opened to the public a week ago. You have offered us plenty to read. Now I learned that personal attack and prejudice are filled in you emails. Can you show us your other forte if possible, which, I hope, can be more enlightening and inspiring in a positive way? I do not think I need to add more because the readers can tell by reading your emails, and we five folders of them to read. Enjoy! Kevin







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Steffen Pollex  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:20
English to German
+ ...
I can't get the point Mar 20, 2002

Hello, Kevin,



absolutely agree with your previous statements on this issue. Furthermore, I don\'t see the point by \"Michael\" in turning this particular case into a discussion on \"American values\" (which, thank God, do not apply everywhere in the world), racial discrimination, communism and other political, all-embracing topics when the whole thing is just about whether to pay for a translation or not. Very simple.



Why should people be allowed to attack you and others personally, the more you were just trying to somehow arbitrate? Who cares whether you are communist or not (whereby it is not clear where this conclusion leads from)? Be that so, you would most likely live in China, North Corea or Cuba where the remains of communism are still kept but not in the US, right? This dispute, once more did one thing: proof my previous personal experience that the average American does neither know nor accept anything besides America, is intolerant, not too farsighted and blinded by the \"greatfulness\" of the US that, as we saw, has been heavily shattered not too long ago. Obviously, this had also a deep impact on \"Michael\", otherwise his reaction would\'nt be that aggressive and more down to earth.



All the best for you. Keep on this way.

Salem

Steffen



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Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:20
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you, Steffen, for sharing your thought! Mar 20, 2002

Dear Steffen,



Thank you for sharing your thought here! I hope many other translators do feel the same way as you do.



The magic part of this Forum is that every party can vioice his or her opinion, and I,as a modrator, tried very hard to guide it into a way that we all can learn something and know how to prevent it from happening again. Then, out of my expectation, I got all these attachs, which are very amusing as you noticed. This is the first time I was told I have so many sides and hats. But he missed one thing I DO have,that is, I do not put up with bullies.



Sincerely,



Kevin



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Marta Argat  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:20
Chinese to Ukrainian
+ ...
"the initiative is to be punished" Mar 20, 2002

Dear Kevin,

What I see from the e-mails you receive is that people behave exactly the way they accuse you to behave: instead of being greateful to a person who has a good will to reconcile them, they want to go deeper into their conflict and abuse you. Let them alone if so. That\'s the old totalitarian way of doing things when the person who appears with a positive idea gets all the worse possible in responce. There is the Ukrainian saying: \"I\'ve been beaten for my own crops\". (I wonder if there is an equivalent Chinese chengyu for it? )

So quit them and please delete the KudoZ I received for the question not related to the term help when this discussion had started!

http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&eid_c=20096&id=159846


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Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:20
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Mar 20, 2002

Dear argat,



Thank you for your message, I always appreciate your input. Like you and many translators working alone by themselves, I believe the Chinese Forum is a wonderful place to learn about others and improve ourselves, and clarify and build up a stamdard. This is the reason I make effort to work as a moderator. Translators should always be respected. I am sure no one will tolerate any abusing activities. I am contacting Henry and Jason and requesting them to review this Forum. At this moment, I do not have the access to delete any messages. Kevin


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