请大家讨论常务副市长, 常务副省长, 常务副县长的常务 Thread poster: jyuan_us
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jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 01:06
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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也许您可以弄个“standing”什么的上去，可是十个老外可能有九点九个不知道咱们这个“常务”的真正意义是什么，更别说“第一常务副市长”了。俺也不甚了了。但老外精得很，他们懂得看排名。同样道理，“代市长”也不是一个“acting”可以了得。这个名堂通常是朝庭钦点了某官，但又还没有过投票机器，因而先弄个“代市长”，等投票机器过过关，就像刘丕要夺位，还几番“谦让”呢。
俺之所以说本坛没有母语非中文者可以胜任政论方面的汉译英，道理就在这里。再比如“群众艺术馆”，著名画家林墉就说过，无论他怎么说，外国友人都无法理解什么叫“群众艺术馆”。他们哪里知道，在一个政治挂帅的国度里，包括艺术在内的许多所谓上层建筑其实都是统治者的工具！
| | | | | This is very patronising! | Sep 10, 2005 |
Last Hermit wrote:
也许您可以弄个“standing”什么的上去，可是十个老外可能有九点九个不知道咱们这个“常务”的真正意义是什么，更别说“第一常务副市长”了。俺也不甚了了。但老外精得很，他们懂得看排名。同样道理，“代市长”也不是一个“acting”可以了得。这个名堂通常是朝庭钦点了某官，但又还没有过投票机器，因而先弄个“代市长”，等投票机器过过关，就像刘丕要夺位，还几番“谦让”呢。
俺之所以说本坛没有母语非中文者可以胜任政论方面的汉译英，道理就在这里。再比如“群众艺术馆”，著名画家林墉就说过，无论他怎么说，外国友人都无法理解什么叫“群众艺术馆”。他们哪里知道，在一个政治挂帅的国度里，包括艺术在内的许多所谓上层建筑其实都是统治者的工具！
I am sure there are foreign specialists, academics, and diplomats who understand the Chinese system and Chinese political concepts and terms quite well.
| | | | | 市委常委、常务副市长;市委常委、副市长 | Sep 10, 2005 |
Regardless of whether they are 常务副市长 or 副市长, they all seem to be 市委常委, in other words, political appointees. First Vice-Mayor might be OK.
I do not know what is meant by the title here:
US Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst meets with Donetsk First Vice ...
US Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst meets with Donetsk First Vice Mayor Nikolai
... See more Regardless of whether they are 常务副市长 or 副市长, they all seem to be 市委常委, in other words, political appointees. First Vice-Mayor might be OK.
I do not know what is meant by the title here:
US Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst meets with Donetsk First Vice ...
US Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst meets with Donetsk First Vice Mayor Nikolai
Volkov, News, NRCU.
www.nrcu.gov.ua/index.php?id=148&listid=18461 - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
Here it simply seems to be the chief of the vice-mayors, equivalent to deputy mayor (ie 2nd in charge):
ISOC 2005 President Elected First Vice-Mayor November 13th, 2002 ...
That led to the appointment of former First Vice-Mayor Mrs. Hilde Zach to Mayor
of Innsbruck and Dr. Bielowski filling her previous post. ...
www.fisu.net/site/ page.php?lien=R&lien_page=194&id=8 - 19k - Cached - Similar pages
[Edited at 2005-09-11 07:29] ▲ Collapse
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redred
China
Local time: 13:06
English to Chinese
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I leave a crowded English forum at home a couple of months, after return, it seems that Chinese language become so urgent month-on-month, the bulletin posed the requirement of “Chinese learning” or “Language exchange” that dazzle my eyes, reflect the boom of Chinese study to the extent.
The famous “Rip Van Winkle” who falls into a sleep lasting 20 years in the forest, when he returns to his home the world is completely changed. Whereas, we would not wait a period of 20 ... See more I leave a crowded English forum at home a couple of months, after return, it seems that Chinese language become so urgent month-on-month, the bulletin posed the requirement of “Chinese learning” or “Language exchange” that dazzle my eyes, reflect the boom of Chinese study to the extent.
The famous “Rip Van Winkle” who falls into a sleep lasting 20 years in the forest, when he returns to his home the world is completely changed. Whereas, we would not wait a period of 20 years to see the situation changed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Haiyang Ai (X)
United States
Local time: 00:06
English to Chinese
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Last Hermit wrote:
在一个政治挂帅的国度里，包括艺术在内的许多所谓上层建筑其实都是统治者的工具！
Agreed.
| | | | | Standing would be fine. | Sep 11, 2005 |
I think standing would be fine.According to Chinese polical system,Vice Mayor is different from Standing Vice Mayor.That is the fact we as a translator should respect.
When talk about different titles in different countries.I think it is related with culture and history.In UK,there is Lord Chancellor.Do you know what that is? In China,we have Standing Committee of NPC (全国人大常委会）and Standing Vice Mayor.Though there is no equivalent organizations in foreign countries.Th... See more I think standing would be fine.According to Chinese polical system,Vice Mayor is different from Standing Vice Mayor.That is the fact we as a translator should respect.
When talk about different titles in different countries.I think it is related with culture and history.In UK,there is Lord Chancellor.Do you know what that is? In China,we have Standing Committee of NPC (全国人大常委会）and Standing Vice Mayor.Though there is no equivalent organizations in foreign countries.There is nothing wrong with that.It is the system in China.If 县长and 常务县长are two different titles,it is our job to distinguish them in translation.Whether foreigners know the exact differences or not would depend on how much they know about China.Actually,more and more foreigners are keen to know more about Chinese political system.
Anyway,maybe our system is not perfect.However,in translation,we should respect the fact and our job is to translate terms accurately.We shouldn't compromise our translation based on how much foreigners know about China.
Just some thinking about translation to share with friends. ▲ Collapse
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Xu Dongjun
China
Local time: 13:06
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
大胆地问一下，世界上有哪个国家或社会的上层建筑不是统治者的工具？？？
一种赤裸裸的偏见！
这些言语老是在中文论坛里出现.....我看隐士先生似乎真该归隐了......
政见不同，总会引发很多不必要的争论。我真的希望Proz上不要出现有关政治问题的讨论，没什么意义，争得面红耳赤......
曾经有一阵子特别喜欢Proz，看到Weiwei、Chance、Wenjor他们在�... See more 大胆地问一下，世界上有哪个国家或社会的上层建筑不是统治者的工具？？？
一种赤裸裸的偏见！
这些言语老是在中文论坛里出现.....我看隐士先生似乎真该归隐了......
政见不同，总会引发很多不必要的争论。我真的希望Proz上不要出现有关政治问题的讨论，没什么意义，争得面红耳赤......
曾经有一阵子特别喜欢Proz，看到Weiwei、Chance、Wenjor他们在论坛上说笑，好生热闹。本来就是，咱们中国这么多人，理所当然我们的中文论坛应该热闹些。可是最近，老是看到一些复古、偏激的言论，挺难过的。我们都知道，现在中国还不发达，很多很多东西还没彻底解决；但是，我们也应该能够看到最近20年来的变化，民主、法制......情况都慢慢好起来了......
恳求大家....不要出现这种言词了 好不好？
讨论翻译、开开玩笑，气氛融洽一些不是更好吗？
今天心情压抑，说多了，不是之处，还请见谅！谢谢！
Haiyang wrote: Last Hermit wrote:
在一个政治挂帅的国度里，包括艺术在内的许多所谓上层建筑其实都是统治者的工具！ Agreed. ▲ Collapse
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世界上有哪个国家或社会的上层建筑不是统治者的工具？？？这话本人不赞同，统治者、被统治者只是某些少数国家才有的。
孙中山说得好，“政”乃众人的事务，“政治”就是管理众人的事务，与每个人都息息相关。政治不是哪些人的专利，即便讨论翻译的过程中涉及了，也未偿不可。否则不又回到“莫谈国是”的大清了？
言归正传！
副省长、副市长、副县长、副XX，一个省、市、县。。总有那么七七八八个，司空见惯了吧，再多也不希奇，有的镇副镇长有五十多个，常务的有两个的也不在少数！这种东西欧美没有，硬译人家还是搞不懂，也没兴趣搞懂，干脆别译。
况且“常务”X长用 standing 一词，恐怕不行，standing 所表示的permanent 之意，本意多用于指常设的机构、规则，似是用来指“物”而不指“人”的。
| | | | | excerpts from website for reference | Sep 12, 2005 |
The following are excerpts from website.For reference.
1.Vice Standing President
On April 20th vice standing president, Li Lian together with Huang Feiyue，deputy
dean of post-graduate school and Liu Yajun, vice dean of studies, inquired intothe
work of Resources and Environment School(RES). ...
news.lzu.edu.cn/article.jsp?newsid=2077 - 7k - 网页快照 - 类似网页
2.Standing Member
Vice Chair: Scott Black, Mayor, Dade... See more The following are excerpts from website.For reference.
1.Vice Standing President
On April 20th vice standing president, Li Lian together with Huang Feiyue，deputy
dean of post-graduate school and Liu Yajun, vice dean of studies, inquired intothe
work of Resources and Environment School(RES). ...
news.lzu.edu.cn/article.jsp?newsid=2077 - 7k - 网页快照 - 类似网页
2.Standing Member
Vice Chair: Scott Black, Mayor, Dade City, FL.
Standing Members. Charles Davidson,
Council Member, Kodiak, AK. Jay Jaxon, Mayor, Eufaula, AL. Robert Patrick, Mayor,
St. Charles, AR. James Boles, Mayor, Winslow, AZ ...
www.nlc.org/content/Files/SCCStanding.pdf - 类似网页
It seems standing can be used to define not only org but also people and actually it has already been widely used in Chinese titles. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | lillian lian 的第二个例子中 standing 的含义是什么呢？ | Sep 12, 2005 |
第一个例子是中式英文，就不说了。
第二个例子中的 standing members 中的“standing”显然与“常务X长”中的“常务”含义不同，那么一大堆呢。
中文“常务X长”中的“常务”是个级别符号。
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