To celebrate Chinese New Year...

Lesley McLachlan wrote:
Here is one for you from my own experience. Almost all foreign students I knew in Beijing were approached by locals who wanted to 'use them' to buy things for them at the Friendship Store or in Hong Kong. We tried to understand...but, it seems opportunistic?

Yueyin Sun wrote:
Lesley,

In early 1980's when you were in Beijing, Chinese people were trying very hard to recover their economy from the catastrophe caused by the Cultural Revolution. Supplies for necessities were very limited. However, to ensure foreigners' comfortable and pleasant stay in China, the Chinese government set up special stores in many cities, like the Friendship Store in Beijing, so that foreigners could enjoy special privileges to buy commodities from those stores. That was a traditional way the Chinese people treat guests. That's also part of our heritage from the 5,000 years civilization. China is a 礼仪之邦. To make it easier for you to understand, it means "朋友来了有好酒…", which is from a famous Chinese patriotic song - 歌唱祖国. If you want, you may ask your Chinese friends, if any, to sing this beautiful song for you.

However, you just take such privileges for granted and use the above example as a reason for looking down upon your Chinese schoolmates. You should feel ashamed!

Yueyin Sun wrote:
However, you just take such privileges for granted and use the above example as a reason for looking down upon your Chinese schoolmates. You should feel ashamed!

[Edited at 2006-02-05 01:19]

Kevin Yang wrote:
Under the cover of free speech in this Forum, she selectively used the negative news stories in New Zealand and tried very hard to use them as examples to support her argument that the Western media is accurate, balanced and unbiased.
Kevin

[Edited at 2006-02-04 23:28]

Lesley McLachlan wrote:



1 There was no selective use of negative news stories
2 Nowhere did I argue that the Western media is accurate, balanced and unbiased.

There is some agenda here?

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Is STUFF the only source you rely on to obtain news?

Lesley McLachlan wrote:



There were no problematic posts. I have already explained I deleted those posts as a courtesy. You can believe that or not as you wish...

Are you sure this isn't prejudice?

Kevin Yang wrote:
Comparing with the insulting remarks you made about the Chinese people, this is a mild case for you.

Lesley McLachlan wrote:

Sorry, what insulting remarks have I made about the Chinese people?

Lesley McLachlan wrote:

The Cold War is over(isn't it?)

23-year-old Chinese man busted for drug smuggling.

Chinese heart surgeon charged with supplying drugs.

I don't believe ProZ.com should be used as a platform for extremist and uncritical views.
I too dislike political wrangles. However I enjoy debate, as long as it is fair and reasonable. This is an off-topic thread after all. (Should ProZ.com have 'off-topic'? What should the purposes of 'off-topic' be?)

No more anti-Western cold-war type extremist and fundamentalist nationalistic rhetoric please!

A local person (a lawyer) here told me that, in his opinion, of the Asians, the old civilisations (Chinese and Japanese) adapt more easily than the newer ones (Korea, Philippines). They come, they look around and just fit in with the local way of doing things - exactly as Angus said. (We are quite a stable and conservative city, not very large - he would have been referring to HK and Taiwan settlers I think). It is not nice to compare though, is it.
估计律师先生还没遇到过大陆来的(少数)'无产阶级黑帮朋友'青年们,骗人,走私(毒品),抢人,杀死自己女朋友(可怕).也有人作假结婚移民为生意. [Kevin’s Translation for the English readers: “(I) assumed that this lawyer had not met those came from the mainland China (minority) ‘proletarian mafia friends ’, the young people, cheaters, smugglers (drugs), robbers, their own girl-friends killers (horrible). There are also those who provide fake-marriage for immigration as business. ]


Lovely! Where is your evidence? Please don't make unsubstantiated remarks. I hope you will not 'just join in the chorus' - we need people who can think!

Take a look at this, another instance where national celebration (Shenzhou) was turned in the direction of national jingoism. It's disappointing.

Your remarks towards me seem to be constantly running down Westerners by association - perhaps you see me as representative of what you most dislike. Or perhaps you see yourself as a hero, defending something. They also look more and more like personal attacks, even distortions and denigration, which is not a good look for a moderator IMO. There is also a certain amount of innuendo, which is a 'dirty tactic' where I come from. Would you like me to elaborate?]

It shows a certain oversensitivity.

We tried to understand...but, it seems opportunistic?

How people choose to respond to the postings is up to them (as always)... What they say and how they say it can tell us a lot.

honest views are 'kicked with steel-capped boots', free speech 'lies bleeding on the ground'...!
jingoism and Chauvinism

people are quick to think the worst of each other, innuendo and slurs are rife

what is this?! '以理服人'不更文明?

honest views are 'kicked with steel-capped boots', free speech 'lies bleeding on the ground'...! people are quick to think the worst of each other, innuendo and slurs are rife. what is this?!

Arrest in 'triad enforcer' murder case

There is no racist or offensive intention in my description of today's news there, for heaven's sake, I am not like that, (otherwise I would be a hypocrite!)

jingoism - I will come back to that in another post. Perhaps it needs to be defined ('chauvinism' in another post caused consternation because of the Marxist dictionaries others were using...)

Lesley McLachlan wrote:



This is all I know about the Opium War and Lin Zexu:

I have read and translated an article "林则徐虎门焚烟" in "祖国", and we studied it in Stage 1 Chinese History: from the Opium War to 1949 at the University of Auckland.

Did we cover it in Chinese history at school, I can't remember. But I remember modern Chinese history was part of the Year 12 history curriculum and we did study it for our exams.

I am not sure of the point of your remark 'which should sound pretty familiar to you.'...

Kevin Yang wrote:




Had a senior moment?

Let me help you to recall. Here is a collection of what you wrote here:






[Edited at 2006-02-05 02:38]

Lesley McLachlan wrote:

Sorry, that comment related more specifically to this from Kevin's earlier post: "Whenever I see her, I know it is bad news.", but I couldn't get the 'quote' function to work on a heading...

That remark in particular gives the impression of prejudice, in other words 'prejudgement', that I will not get a fair hearing.That what I have to say will not be met with an open mind... that's not really what we want is it?

Kevin Yang wrote:



Lesley,

Your behavior of deleting your problematic posts in ShenZhou 6 folder is called "hit-and-run". In the real life, it is a crime. Anyone who has the integrity and decency would stand behind what was written and posted. The good news is that many translators including me quoted your messages in our replies and got most of your messages partially saved in our posts. Would you like me to list out the words you used to describe China and the Chinese people?

Kevin

[Edited at 2006-02-04 02:15]

Lesley McLachlan wrote:

Thank you Kevin:

1 these are not remarks about the Chinese people as a whole are they?
2 are these comments insulting? I don't think so...who thinks so?

Does Kevin speak for everyone? Perhaps this is just one view? Or the view of one or two 'hardliners'? ...

Angus Woo wrote:

Personally I don't know Lesley that much, but her viewpoint does make me feel uneasy, even resentful. You sound like the Chinese as race is by nature inferior and pernicious. I used to have that feeling while HK was still under the old colonial rule. I bet most HK citizens are not craving the second class citizen status. Trust me.

Anyone who has learned anything about the history of the British Empire (NZ is part of the commonwealth) should have known that THE Royal Family of England, the queen of England to be exact, the role model of all British subjects, the supreme governor of the Church of England, had actually resorted to pirating as a national policy in the 16th century, for it could make the Isle rich again. Of course we all know that this is already history.

However, the first question is: is there anyone who would dare to imply that if the head of that nation once was a pirate, then naturally most subjects of the nation consequently must behave and think like that and most citizens of that nation are born to be criminals?

Criminals don't choose where to be born. Simple as that. The Chinese are not perfect, and so are Caucasians.

Lesley McLachlan wrote:
I was fortunate enough to enjoy the friendship and hospitality of wonderful Chinese people. I was lucky to be able to do this while I was a student. It would not have been possible later as a diplomat.