| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | What can you do when the speaker “corrects” your interpretation in the front of audiences? Thread poster: Kevin Yang
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Kevin Yang 
Local time: 05:14
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Thank you for your two cents. | Mar 12, 2006 |
Angus Woo wrote:
As for 如何使用您辛苦挣来的血汗钱是您的自主选择, in my opinion, it doesn't sound targeting on the blue-collar workers to me. Although the expression 血汗钱 in Chinese which means blood and sweat indeed could lead people to associate it with people who have to “sweat blood” to get paid, it does not necessarily target the “blue collars” unless one takes the expression literally. In English, to “sweat blood” which literally correspond to the Chinese expression血汗 only means to work extremely hard or to make great effort. One can sweat blood to finish a market report or an essay.
If 辛苦挣来的血汗钱causes division in opinion, maybe Kevin can change it to 辛苦賺來的錢 to make everybody happy. In Cantonese we use the character 賺 more often than 挣.
Hi, Angus
Thank you for your two cents. It is always a treat to read the messages from my favorite Cantonese translator.
I agree with you that it is not feasible to set any rules in handling such issues, because it can be a mission impossible to implement and reinforce it, especially the speaker is holding a government office position. If a rule cannot be put in application, there is no point to set it. I was perhaps not too clear to the fellow translators here initially. I welcome as always the brilliant translations that is better than the version I delivered. It would be also fully justified for such corrections in the public if the interpreter's interpretation is obviously wrong or missing the essence of the message that the speaker intended to express. What bothered me here is that the suggested interpretation or the version imposed on the interpreter was not so much better and it cannot top the version that was delivered by the interpreter. I think this defeats the purpose of helping the interpreter and the audience to grasp accurately the message the speaker wants to convey, more so it causes confusions, because there are two versions and the audience would wonder which version is the official version.
Talking about the confusion caused by casual comments, the ad I help to produce experienced such unnecessary blame, especially when most of the people worked in the ad production cannot read the Chinese text and could not tell the subtlety in the cultural nuances embedded in the translation. Thank you for the feedback to confirm that my initial judgment was correct. I hope her comment was solely based on the ad itself from her professional point of view. I hope there is no other motivations. From a reliable source, I learned that this Chinese lady from Taiwan in the bank normally gets consulted on the matters related to the Chinese community. But, this time this ad got produced and run the press without stopping at her desk due to the extreme urgency to meet the newspaper submission deadline. I wonder if this is what caused the backfire.
Kevin
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
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| Your money, your choice! | Mar 12, 2006 |
Well, Shaun, did I miss something? Where did you get Kevin's translation? I thought we were only talking about the sentence "How to spend your hard-earned money is your choice."
If the context clarified the usage of "your choice," I would agree with your "血汗錢該怎麼用，完全由您當家作主。" However, my impression is that the bank's promotion meant to move people to put their "hard-earned money" into an account at the bank for mutual benefits. Your money, your choic... See more Well, Shaun, did I miss something? Where did you get Kevin's translation? I thought we were only talking about the sentence "How to spend your hard-earned money is your choice."
If the context clarified the usage of "your choice," I would agree with your "血汗錢該怎麼用，完全由您當家作主。" However, my impression is that the bank's promotion meant to move people to put their "hard-earned money" into an account at the bank for mutual benefits. Your money, your choice, but please think about this: "Yours is hard-earned and we won't make it turn out bubbles!" This might be the ad appeal.
To Angus: Sure, "辛苦掙來的血汗錢" sounds like what we call in German "doppelgemoppelt" (literally, double twisted)for "hard-earned money" can be either "辛苦賺來的錢" or "血汗錢." However, the "hard-earned money" is "toiled money," no matter you sit in front of a computer typing your thoughts or "plough" through the dishes in a Chinese restaurant. It is "辛苦" and you do have to put in your "血汗" to earn the money.
The problem lies in the interpretation of the verb " to earn." In other languages, you would have, for instance in German or Spanish, "verdienen" or "ganar," literally translated "to serve, to earn, to gain" or "to win, to gain" respectively. But I used to complain to my German colleagues that "Warum bekomme ich weniger, als was ich verdiene?" (Why do I get less than what I earn.) Isn't it true that you have to "earn" your money, no matter in front of a computer or whatever?
There isn't much difference to me between the Chinese words "掙" and "賺." It is more common to use "掙" among people in the North, while "賺" may be more usual in the South. However, "賺" has a side taste (Beigeschmack) of "winning/gaining by chance," such as the expression "賺到了！" When you say "辛苦," the money must be "掙來的," or else it wouldn't be "辛苦." What you "賺到的" is somehow "easy money." That is why, I wouldn't like to use the word "賺" in that context. For sure, it goes with "賺" for Hongkong or Taiwanese people, but still, not for me, especially in the context.
In my humble opinion, it is better to think thrice or twice before making a comment on other people's translation. Or else, the comment may turn out just a puff, which was exactly what the lady from Taiwan casually did.
Yes, your money, your choice! But think about it. Take a close look of our operations. Let us run for you. We are your right and wise choice. Your hard-earned money will make more money to merit your hard working and wise choice. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Shaun Yeo
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
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Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Well, Shaun, did I miss something? Where did you get Kevin's translation? I thought we were only talking about the sentence "How to spend your hard-earned money is your choice."
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In my humble opinion, it is better to think thrice or twice before making a comment on other people's translation. Or else, the comment may turn out just a puff, which was exactly what the lady from Taiwan casually did.
Hi Wenjer,
How are you? It's been quite a while since our last conversation here.
Kelvin's translation was provided by, well, Kelvin himself at http://www.tongliusa.com/posters/FirstIndependentBank_2006.jpg.
I ventured to talk about his entire ad, not just the tagline, in response to his call "Can I hear some more comments from other translators in regarding to this tagline translation and ***the ad itself***?"
I took "the ad itself" to mean the body text of and everything else about the ad. I hope I have not misinterpreted Kelvin. But if I had, please allow me to apologize.
I truly understand and fully agree with your point on providing comments on others' translation. And, if not for Kelvin's sincere call for comment and his "thcik-faced" assurance , I would have held back my opinions. Again here, I hope I have not misinterpreted Kelvin. And again, my apologies in advance if I had.
Best,
Shaun
| | | | Xiaoping Fu
Canada
Local time: 05:14
Chinese to English
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Libin, Ph.D. wrote:
What matters most for a mountain is not it height, but its heavenly inspiration; what matters most for a country is not its size, but its peaceful pursuit of justice.
我喜欢你的译文！
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Xiaoping Fu
Canada
Local time: 05:14
Chinese to English
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Kevin Yang wrote:
李肇星 : “山不在高，有仙则名，国不在大，热爱和平、主持公道就好。”
The lady interpreter: “A mountain, no matter how high it is , if it is blessed with the touch of divine, it would be well-known. A country, no matter how big it is, if it can uphold peace and justice in the world, it would be a good country.”
Then, Mr. Li made a quick and partial "correction": “What the matter of a mountain is not its height, what the matter of the country is not its size.”
女翻译的译文通顺自然，意思是：山无论多高，名不在高；国无论多大，善不在大。在一般的场合，应该算是很不错的。但李肇星为什么要用自己那不太通顺的句子来纠正呢？问题大概就在“无论多高”总是“高”，“无论多大”总是“大”。而中国目前的外交姿态似乎是追求低调的实惠，有点忌讳称大、称强。
所以，在我看来，李肇星是个敏锐的外交家、蹩脚的翻译和不太体贴的上司。:-D
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
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| It's a pleasure to have conversation with you. | Mar 12, 2006 |
Hi Shaun,
I should have separated my responses to your comments and to Angus'. And I should have greeted you formally. But, you see, I am not used to minding "小節" and I am sure that friends can take it.
Thank you for pointing out the link. I didn't notice Kevin's provision of the link. I'll go over and have a closer look.
Actually, it is inevitable that we, as translators, are asked to comment on other's translation and get usually paid for it. In such ... See more Hi Shaun,
I should have separated my responses to your comments and to Angus'. And I should have greeted you formally. But, you see, I am not used to minding "小節" and I am sure that friends can take it.
Thank you for pointing out the link. I didn't notice Kevin's provision of the link. I'll go over and have a closer look.
Actually, it is inevitable that we, as translators, are asked to comment on other's translation and get usually paid for it. In such cases, good translators know how to help each other onto the right track. I believe to be able to recognise your merits as a good translator in the way how you commented on Kevin's translation. Don't be too "客氣." We are at home in this forum.
It's always a pleasure to have conversation with you. Maybe we shall find some more interesting topics for discussion sometimes. Till next time, be good, don't do anything I wouldn't do.
- Wenjer
Shaun Yeo wrote: Hi Wenjer, How are you? It's been quite a while since our last conversation here. Kelvin's translation was provided by, well, Kelvin himself at http://www.tongliusa.com/posters/FirstIndependentBank_2006.jpg. I ventured to talk about his entire ad, not just the tagline, in response to his call "Can I hear some more comments from other translators in regarding to this tagline translation and ***the ad itself***?" I took "the ad itself" to mean the body text of and everything else about the ad. I hope I have not misinterpreted Kelvin. But if I had, please allow me to apologize. I truly understand and fully agree with your point on providing comments on others' translation. And, if not for Kelvin's sincere call for comment and his "thcik-faced" assurance , I would have held back my opinions. Again here, I hope I have not misinterpreted Kelvin. And again, my apologies in advance if I had. Best, Shaun
[Edited at 2006-03-12 07:31] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Xiaoping Fu
Canada
Local time: 05:14
Chinese to English
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Kevin Yang wrote:
The lady interpreter: “A mountain, no matter how high it is , if it is blessed with the touch of divine, it would be well-known. A country, no matter how big it is, if it can uphold peace and justice in the world, it would be a good country.”
只要把“high”改成“low”，把“big”改成“small”，女翻译的译文更符合原文的意思，李肇星也无可挑剔了。:-D
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
+ ...
Xiaoping Fu wrote: Libin, Ph.D. wrote:
What matters most for a mountain is not its height, but its heavenly inspiration; what matters most for a country is not its size, but its peaceful pursuit of justice.
我喜欢你的译文！
一直沒說，補說一下。我喜歡李兄的譯文，最主要是背後的那些考量。中文字面上的意思同樣需要深思的，轉譯的時候又要考慮到西方文化能接收到的是些什麼，所以李兄的思考令人欣賞。翻譯功夫就是思想的功夫，往往要從最笨的地方開始，我自己還無法做到那樣，因為我生性真的比較粗率。老實說，要是我這一生的狗運太好的話，一個不小心就落到一品的官位上，我的表現恐怕也不會比李肇星的高明。在目前的地位上，我已經相當夠惹人嫌呢。呵呵。在這論壇上都是自己人，打開天窗說，應該無妨。
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
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Xiaoping Fu wrote: Kevin Yang wrote:
The lady interpreter: “A mountain, no matter how high it is , if it is blessed with the touch of divine, it would be well-known. A country, no matter how big it is, if it can uphold peace and justice in the world, it would be a good country.”
只要把“high”改成“low”，把“big”改成“small”，女翻译的译文更符合原文的意思，李肇星也无可挑剔了。:-D
傅兄，你真的要令我大笑不止了！
| | | | | Height doesn't make a mountain, nor size a country | Mar 12, 2006 |
Height doesn't make a mountain, nor size a country.
山不在于高矮,国不在于大小
[Edited at 2006-03-12 08:03]
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
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| Does the translation imply what was explicitly said in Chinese? | Mar 12, 2006 |
Lesley McLachlan wrote:
Height doesn't make a mountain, nor size a country.
Hi Lesley,
Long time no see. How are you doing?
Your sentence sounds perfectly English to me. However, your translation goes like "山不在高，国不在大。", which implies something unsaid and to be answered: If the height doesn't make a mountain, what else does? If the size doesn't make a country, what else does?
What could be those two what else? Does your sentence imply "有仙则名" and "热爱和平、主持公道就好"? Or, are you going to explicate these two phrases in a following sentence? What would be appropriate in English for these two phrases?
Thanks in advance.
- Wenjer
| | | | Angus Woo
Local time: 20:14
Chinese to English
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ysun
United States
Local time: 07:14
English to Chinese
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Wenjer Leuschel wrote: Yueyin Sun wrote:
语法分析
网上有不少人因此而给李先生歌功颂德，那本人就唱个反调吧！
唉呀，老孫！你這語法分析就是我說「人不在塊頭大」的原因。 不過，你我或許有點唱反調的本錢，為難別人，那可就不好了。
文哲：
開個玩笑。官不在位高，有權則牛；人不在塊大，有錢則肥。如何？
如果難以唱反調，那也不宜亂唱贊歌。
| | | | Xiaoping Fu
Canada
Local time: 05:14
Chinese to English
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Kevin Yang wrote:
The English tag line was “How to spend your hard-earned money is your choice.” The intension of this ad was to draw the local Chinese people to do business with this American bank, so I came up the translation for this tag line as "如何使用您辛苦挣来的血汗钱是您的自主选择" .
I think this translation is acceptable. Of the hardness of making money, I don't think there is any substantial difference between white-collar and blue-collar workers. It is totally OK to call the salary of a computer programmer "血汗钱".
不过，我同意文哲和其他几位朋友的意见：广告语言应该译得稍微灵活一些。
“How to spend your hard-earned money is your choice.”这句广告词，如果让我译，可能会译成：“您的钱来之不易，怎能不细细筹谋！”
| | | | Zhoudan
Local time: 20:14
English to Chinese
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我喜欢傅先生的版本。
Xiaoping Fu wrote:
“How to spend your hard-earned money is your choice.”这句广告词，如果让我译，可能会译成：“您的钱来之不易，怎能不细细筹谋！”
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