| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | 害我受"精"？台湾学生语文能力差 Thread poster: Libin PhD
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http://www.zaobao.com.sg/special/newspapers/2006/05/xmrb060505.html
（综合电）‘早上起来整理遗容(仪容)’、‘我弟弟长得欣欣向荣’，‘回家打开门，狗对我突飞猛进’，台湾国小学生的作文和造句不只是错字连篇还有不少离谱错误。台湾立委昨天齐叹，学生语文能力低落，难怪大学�... See more http://www.zaobao.com.sg/special/newspapers/2006/05/xmrb060505.html
（综合电）‘早上起来整理遗容(仪容)’、‘我弟弟长得欣欣向荣’，‘回家打开门，狗对我突飞猛进’，台湾国小学生的作文和造句不只是错字连篇还有不少离谱错误。台湾立委昨天齐叹，学生语文能力低落，难怪大学学测华文作文两千多人考鸭蛋，华文课时数应增加。
国民党立委洪秀柱昨天在立法院教育委员会中拿出从北县收集到国小学生作业指出，学生的错误百出，问题就出在授课时数，而教育部长杜正胜则承认语文教学时数偏低，但9年一贯需交专家讨论
台湾教育部长杜正胜昨天上午到立法院教育委员会报告‘学生语文能力现况与改善措施’。教师出身的立委洪秀柱拿出请国小老师收集的国小学生作业质询，更说学生的造句和作文都出现许多错误，令人摇头。
以不如造句：你不如去死
洪秀柱举例，有学生写着‘他从背后打我一下，害我受精(惊)’、‘在操场上烤肉会风尘仆仆(风沙滚滚)、不太好’、‘他为了要成功不折手断(不择手段)’、还有人写妈妈照顾我无微‘不治’(至)。同音字错误，意义却差了十万八千里。
她还提到，学生的造句常词穷，也有不少让人绝倒的句子，像是用‘不如’造句，学生写着：‘你不如去死’，而‘一时’造句，有人写的是‘爸爸半夜一时零分竟然还在喝酒。’
洪秀柱指出，九年一贯课程增加英语、乡土语言上课时数，排挤到华语文时数，国中小一年减少45到96个小时；台湾小学生华语一年共上课80到133小时，教育部应修改课程，增加国语文上课时数。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | | And if 8 honours are to be practiced, should 8 DIShonours be too? | May 5, 2006 |
Input '践行八荣八耻 -观,-思想', you'll get tons of those results.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=zh-CN&q="践行八荣八耻"%20-观,-思想&btnG=Google%20搜索&lr=lang_zh-CN|lang_zh-TW|lang_en
Libin PhD wrote: http://www.zaobao.com.sg/special/newspapers/2006/05/xmrb060505.html （综合电）‘早上起来整理遗容(仪容)’、‘我弟弟长得欣欣向荣’，‘回家打开门，狗对我突飞猛进’，台湾国小学生的作文和造句不只是错字连篇还有不少离谱错误。台湾立委昨天齐叹，学生语文能力低落，难怪大学学测华文作文两千多人考鸭蛋，华文课时数应增加。 国民党立委洪秀柱昨天在立法院教育委员会中拿出从北县收集到国小学生作业指出，学生的错误百出，问题就出在授课时数，而教育部长杜正胜则承认语文教学时数偏低，但9年一贯需交专家讨论 台湾教育部长杜正胜昨天上午到立法院教育委员会报告‘学生语文能力现况与改善措施’。教师出身的立委洪秀柱拿出请国小老师收集的国小学生作业质询，更说学生的造句和作文都出现许多错误，令人摇头。 以不如造句：你不如去死 洪秀柱举例，有学生写着‘他从背后打我一下，害我受精(惊)’、‘在操场上烤肉会风尘仆仆(风沙滚滚)、不太好’、‘他为了要成功不折手断(不择手段)’、还有人写妈妈照顾我无微‘不治’(至)。同音字错误，意义却差了十万八千里。 她还提到，学生的造句常词穷，也有不少让人绝倒的句子，像是用‘不如’造句，学生写着：‘你不如去死’，而‘一时’造句，有人写的是‘爸爸半夜一时零分竟然还在喝酒。’ 洪秀柱指出，九年一贯课程增加英语、乡土语言上课时数，排挤到华语文时数，国中小一年减少45到96个小时；台湾小学生华语一年共上课80到133小时，教育部应修改课程，增加国语文上课时数。
[Edited at 2006-05-05 18:40]
[Edited at 2006-05-05 18:42]
| | | | pkchan 
United States
Local time: 18:28
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
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恐怕這不是在談語文，而是一場政治之爭。文哲兄應比我們的局外人更清楚。
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Yi-Hua Shih
Taiwan
Local time: 06:28
English to Chinese
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文哲君
你再次犯了「人談教育，我獨不識教育；人談中文，我一定要扯政治」的惡劣毛病。
政治鬥爭無所不用其極 8:59pm pkchan wrote:
恐怕這不是在談語文，而是一場政治之爭。文哲兄應比我們的局外人更清楚。 你知道嗎？他們跟蔣介石一同過來統治台灣的人，自認為中文比我們世代在本地的人好。其實，那些錯誤在中國照樣有人犯，更不用說 (說得難聽些) 國民黨的餘孽，那些人的後代子孫錯得比我們更離譜。 洪秀柱的那些指控，其實只是政治鬥爭的顧左右而言他，實情只是簡單的一句話：要向中國共產黨投降，也只有我們中國國民黨才有資格！
Pk 先生
相信你不至於以為一位住在台灣之人的意見，一定比所謂＜外人＞更接近實情吧！
Kevin 版主
請加把勁兒限制泛政治化的偏見言論。
謝謝。
[Edited at 2006-05-05 22:01]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 18:28
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| This is so funny. | May 5, 2006 |
[Edited at 2006-05-05 22:18]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 18:28
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 06:28
English to Chinese
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pkchan wrote:
恐怕這不是在談語文，而是一場政治之爭。文哲兄應比我們的局外人更清楚。
台灣的政治冷暖人人各自知曉。不同立場自然會有不同觀點。談教育？見鬼的事情！中文課要多加時數，英文也要多加時數，小孩子都不要活啦？
會寫錯別字、會寫出理路不通文字的人，你多加二十年的時間給他，他照樣學不會一種語言。君不見有人在台灣四、五十年，連任何一種台灣地方語言也不會。加強中文教學就能拯救中學生的語文程度？那樣能免他們於受精？一位在美國教高中數學的台灣朋友說：她那一班上的學生有三分之一挺著肚子來上課，過一陣子需要休學生孩子。
樓上有人抗議我們談政治。是的，語文的爭議其實都是政治，沒有道理可言的，誰贏了誰拿去吃！
如果 ProZ 當局認為不妥，刪除了我一點也不會覺得可惜，因為大家心知肚明，是怎樣的人才會寫出「害我受精」這樣的言語。那種人是自以為高人一等者所瞧不起的人，說是要教育他們，其實是要告訴他們：Stay where you are! There, underneath us!
再者，誰教育誰啦？
[Edited at 2006-05-06 03:08]
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Mark Xiang
Local time: 06:28
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我不明白的是：为什么总有那么几个人醉心于在此谈论政治？规则为什么得不到执行？难道要等到惩罚全体中文论坛的同仁时，大家才能觉醒？
奉劝那些政治狂热者：到别处去寻找您的兜售对象吧！表演政治的舞台多的是，但ProZ不是一个政治平台，别污染了这样一块专业净土！
无奈！！！
Mark
| | | | Clark An
Local time: 06:28
English to Chinese
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Libin PhD wrote:
洪秀柱指出，九年一贯课程增加英语、乡土语言上课时数，排挤到华语文时数，国中小一年减少45到96个小时；台湾小学生华语一年共上课80到133小时，教育部应修改课程，增加国语文上课时数。
我倒不认为是学生不努力。人的精力有限，现在学生负担又重，除其他正课外还要学语言，学不好是正常，学得好是不正常。这也和教育政策有关系，要不是教育部要求，又有多少学生会学乡土语言、英语、还有华语。不过有一种语言是肯定要学的——一国的官方语言。政治姑且不论，但有一点是肯定的：中国人说中国话。所以大陆的语文全为普通话教学，从没有“因地制宜”，我在天津，家庭中也以说普通话为荣，如果我有时冒出一半句“老天津卫”，家里人便会提醒“注意说普通话”。我这一代还是很幸运的，小时候没少玩儿，不像现在的孩子，动不动就是双语教学，三语教学。整体的效果我是不知道，可我那个小表弟我还是知道的。他三年级了，在双语班里学习。不管是汉语还是英语，都不怎么样，而且脑筋也比我那时笨了许多。现在看来，“玩儿”实际上也是一种学习。
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 06:28
English to Chinese
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Mark Xiang wrote:
我不明白的是：为什么总有那么几个人醉心于在此谈论政治？规则为什么得不到执行？难道要等到惩罚全体中文论坛的同仁时，大家才能觉醒？
奉劝那些政治狂热者：到别处去寻找您的兜售对象吧！表演政治的舞台多的是，但ProZ不是一个政治平台，别污染了这样一块专业净土！
无奈！！！
Mark
Mark,
你可以仔細看一下，我們翻譯的東西有多少會碰上政治的？有些東西非得把立場弄清楚不可。假借語文政策行屈辱官員的做法，在台灣是很平常的現象，這在中國簡直不可能。
撇開政治不談，如果單單就語文政策來說，台灣內部的語文政策從來就與中華人民共和國立國以來有所不同，這也是為何台灣堅持寫繁體字，國民黨還宣布改稱繁體字為正體字的原因。所謂正體就是有別於簡化之後的旁門左道偏體。那種稱法不正是擺明了要與中國現行的文字有別嗎？始作俑者並非今日的台灣政府，那樣的語文政策有著一貫的傳承。對於我個人而言，簡體繁體都一樣，並不會有多大的困難，但我的身分認同可是清楚明白的，在兩國商定合併之前，我還是台灣人，尊重所有的中國人，就像我的中國友人對我尊重一般，那些沒有學會尊重的我可以避免。
政治當然可以不談，但遇上必須表明立場，那並非談政治，而是把立場弄清楚。前頭 pkchan 意識到台灣的立法委員洪秀柱所提出的那些說法，只是為了羞辱當任的教育部長，他提出懷疑，我說明這種現象形成的原因，這對中國翻譯同仁並無壞處，只會有讓中國同仁更加了解台灣的好處。
誰會因此懲罰「全體」中文論壇的同仁呢？台灣曾經有個高壓統治的惡霸政權，但那個政權並無法消滅人民追求民主自由的意願，我們因此也相信中國能夠逐步走上公平正義的道路，沒有需要恐懼的。你既無需害怕，也不必表態，不談的政治你可以不談。要談專業，請提出，我照樣奉陪。
- Wenjer
| | | | Kevin Yang
Local time: 15:28
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
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| Can we bring our emotion down, and let our judgment up? | May 6, 2006 |
Hi, Wenjer and all
Let's not be so defensive about this, and look at this matter as it is. I hope you are not too sensitive about this. The topic Bin Li brought to us is to tell us the young students in Taiwan writing too many wrong Chinese characters in their writing class. It should be an alert to the teachers and the parents.
If any student, including in the mainland China, learns how to write in Chinese, he or she should write the characters and expressions correct... See more Hi, Wenjer and all
Let's not be so defensive about this, and look at this matter as it is. I hope you are not too sensitive about this. The topic Bin Li brought to us is to tell us the young students in Taiwan writing too many wrong Chinese characters in their writing class. It should be an alert to the teachers and the parents.
If any student, including in the mainland China, learns how to write in Chinese, he or she should write the characters and expressions correctly by following the established rules. This is the whole reason of taking a writing class. The early Chinese immigrants brought the Chinese Han language to Taiwan, and have been using it there to this date. The increase of students writing wrong characters and using wrong expression only can reflect the declining of education quality.
For better communication with the Chinese in rest of the world, I think the Chinese writing rules should be carried out by all the educators and the translators like us, no one should argue for exceptions. I am afraid it is too far-fetched to associate this issue with pursuing freedom. Let's do not over interpret this and it should not be considered understandable or OK to do it, just because it happens in a specific region. English has regional usage difference, but this case in Taiwan is totally different.
I hope you are not too sensitive about this. If this subject made you feel uncomfortable, I can lock this folder for stopping further discussion. Let's be aware that the children in the mainland China also write wrong characters, but the parents and teachers are not proud of it and do their best to correct it. When I used a Chinese expression incorrectly or write Chinese characters wrong, I feel bad about it and try not to repeat it again. When I write in English, I try all I can to write it right. If I was told wrong, I correct it and try to do right next time. This is an attitude thing, and I would never argue that I am a Mongolian so it is Ok for me to write other languages wrong or inappropriately.
As Stone mentioned, this subject is getting too political. Can we bring our emotion down, and let our judgment up?
Kevin
[Edited at 2006-05-06 17:11] ▲ Collapse
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 18:28
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
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| 發生在春夏之交的一場政治風波 | May 6, 2006 |
Stone118大姐及Mark Xiang君﹕
政治、社會、文教翻譯是小弟的強項，而且受 CHOMSKY 及 FREIRE 的影響甚深，可算是屬非學院派的社會翻譯人。近日，亦多看了余光中的語文及翻譯論集，因此 INTERNALIZE 了一些政治觀點， UNITENTIONALLY 污染了這片淨土， 請諒。
在這裡，與文哲兄有過多次的交流及對話，因而誤認他是『唯一的局內人』，這是 NAME CALLING 的問題，絕無厚此... See more Stone118大姐及Mark Xiang君﹕
政治、社會、文教翻譯是小弟的強項，而且受 CHOMSKY 及 FREIRE 的影響甚深，可算是屬非學院派的社會翻譯人。近日，亦多看了余光中的語文及翻譯論集，因此 INTERNALIZE 了一些政治觀點， UNITENTIONALLY 污染了這片淨土， 請諒。
在這裡，與文哲兄有過多次的交流及對話，因而誤認他是『唯一的局內人』，這是 NAME CALLING 的問題，絕無厚此薄彼之意。
小弟從未踏足台灣，不知何故，在香港求學時期，三度申請赴台被拒，對台灣教育及語文政治認識，只限於來自媒體及書本，未有親身的體驗，若對這場語言之爭，當作政治之爭，只怪小弟無知。但依稀記得，余光中曾與現任教育部長有過『輓聯』用錯字之爭，而余光中在當中央日報副總時，有人指他曾打壓台灣進步文化人，因此引起多疑，想是庸人自擾吧。
在美國，春夏之交是花粉過敏的高峰期，幸好還可借助藥物，減輕病情，但政治敏感就無藥可救，唯有退場，面壁思過。且希望 KEVIN 大哥能採用治病救人的態度，寬大處理，則感激不盡。
在香港讀書時，反動老師必須要學生用繁體字，否則扣分兼打手板，因此沿用至今未改，若看得不舒服，待ProZ簡體化後，在博物館才可找到此貼，請莫錯怪。
弟pkchan 敬禮 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 06:28
English to Chinese
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| Hi Kevin, there are some points to be made. | May 6, 2006 |
The declining of education quality is not only complained in Taiwan, but also complained in China. We have an additional problem with language teaching: the decision to keep Tradtional Chinese or to make it simple and use Simplified Chinese as well. Many people would say no, just because keeping the characters complicate means "culture" and "education" to those people.
For me, it's kinda rubbish, for the whole world is using some kind of alphabets and there are the most cultured and... See more The declining of education quality is not only complained in Taiwan, but also complained in China. We have an additional problem with language teaching: the decision to keep Tradtional Chinese or to make it simple and use Simplified Chinese as well. Many people would say no, just because keeping the characters complicate means "culture" and "education" to those people.
For me, it's kinda rubbish, for the whole world is using some kind of alphabets and there are the most cultured and educated people out there who use one of those simple alphabets. Why it must be complicate characters that show the education or culture of a person? Baloney!
When I was in South America, I used to teach kids of Chinese immigrants how to speak, think, read and write in Chinese. Those kids are used to Spanish repertoire of phonemes and Spanish phonology. That is why they usually don't distinguish the sounds /n/ and /ng/. They would say, "When I was on my way to school this morning, there was a dump of shit just out there in front of me and I ate two pounds of it. 害得我吃了一斤," instead of "I got startled like shit. 害得我吃了一驚."
You see, you can explain to the kids that the difference between /n/ and /ng/ is phonologically significant in Chinese, but they would forget about it in the next moment. The only way was to find a lot of examples and design a set of practices for them to distinguish those two phonemes with a lot of same sounding characters for practice in front of their eyes.
Language courses for students in Taiwan are not worse than ever. The environment for learning remains just the same, if not better through the mass media. The kids speak and write Chinese every each day. Such mistaken sounds and characters happen just as frequently as before and probably will continue happening in the future, neither less nor more. If we look closer at the postings in this forum, we find them among the writings of colleagues, too. Sometimes, we make mistakes in sounds and characters ourselves, too.
I my opinion, it's nothing to panic. The most important is to correct those mistakes when they happen, either by teachers or by peers. Just don't take those mistakes too seriously. Or else we would have a lot of people correcting all the time other people's writings in this forum and thus offending others, instead of communicating.
Let's avoid stepping into political issues, which are inevitably there in education policies in Chinese speaking countries, such as Taiwan, Singapore and China. However, it is clear that Taiwanese kids are no less capable of reading and writing Chinese than kids somewhere else.
For me, education is to interact, at most to guide, not to lead or to put kids and their parients down. Making mistakes in languages is necessary and inevitable, for it makes fun when mistakes happen, and language learning must be fun. Or else the kids would go crazy and learn nothing. Let the kids learn by making mistakes, I would say.
[Edited at 2006-05-07 05:20] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yi-Hua Shih
Taiwan
Local time: 06:28
English to Chinese
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| And Let the adult NOT to make mistake intentionally！ | May 6, 2006 |
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
．．．We have an additional problem with language teaching: the decision to keep Tradtional Chinese or to make it simple and use Simplified Chinese as well. Many people would say no, just because keeping the characters complicate means "culture" and "education" to those people.
For me, it's kinda rubbish, for the whole world is using some kind of alphabets and there are the most cultured and educated people out there who use one of those simple alphabets. Why it must be complicate characters that show the education or culture of a person? Baloney!
Your description above are nothing but a lie. Go ask the education official 杜正勝，he would tell you that he support teaching Traditional Chinese in Taiwan. Why? Does 杜 think he is much more cultural and educated than people in China and those who use Simpilied Chinese? Are you trying to make such a point? Are you criticizing the official you love so much that you insist the poet 余光中 was only purposefully making political trouble with him?
Don't be a deliberately liar, please. Be an educated person!
Let the kids learn by making mistakes, I would say.
[Edited at 2006-05-06 21:27]
I would say：
Let the adult NOT to make such mistakes above intentionally！
[Edited at 2006-05-06 23:07]
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